Poorly made collab requests and specific reactions (Rant)

malverav 2019-09-09 02:21:39 UTC #13

I've seen/linked people to that thread before, it's great! Thanks for making it, it's a great rescource that I wish popped up as a huge intrusive popup that forces you to read it whenever you try to make a post in the collabbing section. I think it got removed as a pin, or maybe I can't see it pinned anymore.

malverav 2019-09-09 02:23:41 UTC #14

Oh my god, same. And "editors" with basic grammar mistakes drive me bananas too.

Surely a lot of these people are new and just aren't aware of how long drawing a page takes yet. They take 30 seconds to read, so people assume they must be quick to pump out. 6-8 hours? What?

ratique 2019-09-09 02:26:28 UTC #15

We're currently reviewing terms and guidelines of the collaboration topic, because I agree - it's gotten pretty egregious.

CodeMonkeyArts 2019-09-09 02:43:20 UTC #16

Wow! People don't get that?

I'm doing my story in WebNovel format (with insert images) because I know how long it takes me to draw an image and I ain't got time for a webcomic. Depending the color choices, inking, paneling, detail needed, I can imagine that one page should take at least three days. O.o

malverav 2019-09-09 03:23:53 UTC #17

You're a gem. Thank you!

GamerPrincessXI 2019-09-09 04:00:56 UTC #18

Hey.....I have several scripts. Two of them are a simple search on tapas. One called, Life of Shiori and the other one is is called Finding StarFalls. Both differ. One is about finding yourself among friends and the other is an adventure.

ar-ninetysix 2019-09-09 04:18:56 UTC #19

What the heck is this, I come back and you're trying to collab with someone on my thread whining about collab threads! xD

malverav 2019-09-09 04:31:27 UTC #20

Never stop hustling

IndigoShirtProd 2019-09-09 05:37:49 UTC #21

I feel like the issue isn't uninformed people make inefficient collaboration topics, I think it's more or less people coming into the forums with an account that's hardly 24 hours old making a b-line for the collaboration category to make a job posting. The difference is the line between collaboration and commission. Often it feels like some of those posts are just people looking for an artist or writer to work for/under them as opposed to with them. Of course there are examples of people taking the critique on their post and making the necessary changes. Honestly, I just dont like seeing the collaboration thread clogged up with posts that barely qualify as asking for a collab.

nostalgicroxas 2019-09-09 06:57:55 UTC #22

Well wait, I think @ar-ninetysix is kind of onto something more than just the "new users here for 24hrs" being steered off because of bad responses to their collab request thread. Those kind of rude responses I've seen to some of the threads would deter someone who's been here daily for a year, or semi-weekly for just a few months. It doesn't matter how long someone's been here, if everyone gangs up to the collab request thread with rude responses that amount to "NEVER ASK ARTISTS TO WORK FOR FREE WE COST EXPENSIVE PRICE TAGS AND HERE'S OUR DEMANDS". It's... a collaboration. Let's just remember what the definition of that word means. If someone wants to pay for an artist to do their work, that's called an employee, and is not a collaboration, and they will not be searching here, of all places.

AceRagz 2019-09-09 07:19:37 UTC #23

What really bothers me is when someone is so new that their first post -is- a collab request someone or couple of people quickly respond only to unload their anger and frustrations out on these new folks for past bad pitches. Especially when the op asks well how can I improve? And the responders pretty much admit they just wanted to unload on them and they never had any serious interest in the project. I mean is this the kind of intro we want new people to get to the community? This sets a bad impression right off the bat.

GamerPrincessXI 2019-09-09 12:22:39 UTC #24

XD, this isn't a collab thread. I thought it was.

GamerPrincessXI 2019-09-09 12:35:25 UTC #25

I would like an artist to work with me not for me. The first collab that I did fell apart because of our lack of communication. I wish to do another collaboration. Actually when about it the right way and still got no response. But once I mentioned paid. Artist jumped at it. I don't have a lot of money to throw around. If I did, I probably ask myself how well do I know this person. I'd want to build a friendship with this person and hopefully they don't abandon my work.

ar-ninetysix 2019-09-09 13:19:17 UTC #26

On the part elaborating on how the response could affect anyone and not just the newer users, I totally agree with that. However, where you mentioned not coming here for paying people to do the work, I have a few things I'd like to touch on relating to it

There's paid collaboration requests made on here.. from newbies to the forums? Probably not, they're in the very small minority, but they do exist. If a guy with a lot of spare money and an idea for comic was asking for a place to find an artist, I wouldn't hesitate to send 'em here if they didn't know about this place. Except that's certainly not the usual way things go. Unpaid offers are the norm

Take me for example, I made one of these awful unpaid "visionary thinker" posts back on Webtoons over a year ago. For the little attention that it got, there were a few that ridiculed me for not being prepared enough for my epic and one person directed me here (I'd tag the kind older lady, but I don't wanna drag her into this drama lol)

In any case, I was new to this, and I needed better examples and more potential outreach, so she pointed me here. I feel like that's how a lot of new users find this place? I could be wrong. But like, I can see someone else having that same exact situation and them just seeing unpaid collab posts being made and they're like cool, I can ask here too. And bam, without reading the room, they ask what they want without reevaluating what went wrong before.

The little pop-up telling you what the topic is similar to is nice and all, but for collabs specifically?? Assuming they click the Collab category for their post first, I think it'd be better to link directly to the most-linked-to posts regarding how detailed one's collab request should be.. just an idea though

nostalgicroxas 2019-09-09 13:27:49 UTC #27

I agree. I also think it might be nice to see the fruits of these collabs, as forum users. Like in the collab thread itself, come back and post something like HEY WE GOT OUR PROJECT OFF THE GROUND HERE'S WHERE IT IS. Or post something about it in the Feedback / Shoutouts area to promote it, and link back that it's a collab that actually reached some kind of progress past plain negotiations. I think it was the creator of Blue Life who just recently posted about how they got an artist and they're creating a comic together, and to me - that's the only instance I can really recall where something came out of a collab of some sort and someone of the team is back on the forums to tell us something happened. I hope that makes sense.

I personally forget how I found this site - think it was a lot of random googling and searching around for places that weren't fanfic ridden to post written works when Tapas came up. I didn't come here looking for collaborations, and while I'm happy I found the forums and have thought about doing a collab for a while - I feel the urge to adjust my writing skill from "novel" to "script" before attempting to pitch anything to anyone on here simply because of the negative responses I've seen on the threads requesting to collab with artists.

Summary

For me personally, learning to write it as a script would be like learning a new language, and it's summaries, and that's not how my brain works. But it certainly feels like if you don't have a script, then you won't get any bites.

IndigoShirtProd 2019-09-09 16:14:19 UTC #28

I feel like I'm more understanding what the real issue is with the collaboration category, though if anyone has completed or started a successful collaboration through these forums please give examples. Talk about what made it work.

This may be more of a problem with expectations when it comes to the category. More importantly, are people going to the category looking to genuinely work together with someone, or are they looking to get paid for their work. Is someone expecting to go to the collaboration category looking for some to throw all their support behind a project they have already partially built up and have a vision for?

I wasn't misinterpreted before in my last post and I was wrong in who I faulted with the issues with the category. The question becomes would it be better to walk in with nothing but a nebulous idea or specific genre or art style in mind Then from there the collaborators work together the whole time, tentatively bouncing ideas off one another until they come to something they both like.

What's there to be gained in a collab? Experience working with others on a deadline. A chance to better their skills. A friendship. I fear that those whose come to collaborate don't all share the mentality of @GamerPrincessXI where the fun of collaboration is a forefront perspective. It feels like they just some to come work on their IPs, whether or not they get paid.

It also feels like the looming idea of payment keeps collab from happening. Like I said before, it's the line between collaboration and commission. However, the expectation is eventually, if there is no payment upfront and the collaboration garners enough traction that money can be made, that both parties will receive the monetary compensation for their work regardless. I feel like if you're scrolling through the collaboration category looking to get paid, you're there for the wrong reasons. Though, that's not really fair to the people who do that either.

ar-ninetysix 2019-09-09 16:35:31 UTC #29

Hey, that's not a bad idea, it'd be nice to see someone start a thread where we compile a bunch of users comics or novels who've actually managed to complete a project that started out from one of these. Maybe even have 'em go in-depth on the process what approaches were made, what kinds of benefits came from it on both sides.. stuff like that. It'd be nice to have a place that we can look back to for proving that these collabs can, in fact, be accomplished

skicoak 2019-09-09 16:39:47 UTC #30

I asked for examples, in another thread, about half a year ago ....no responses.

Most examples of Collab on this platform seem to come from outside the platform/forums.

Jenny-Toons 2019-09-09 16:56:15 UTC #31

And to that point, a lot of the collabs that do come of fruit, it's basically by people who got to know each other on the forums and outside of the forums. Two examples I know of are the one I worked on with other Tapas creators, which was this:

And the Over a Cup of Coffee collab, which to be fair was paid, but it worked and they made the finished book:

There were also a few Fight Club threads that happened that made some comics.

Again -- a lot of the collabs I've seen work down happened less because people were looking for strangers. Rather, they were looking for people they had already known to have established some sort of connection with, be it professionally, friendship, or they knew that "hey, I could work with this person because they can get shit done"

ar-ninetysix 2019-09-09 17:00:08 UTC #32

Hmmm that's pretty bad lol but like.. okay, was that the point of the thread itself or was it a somewhat related question in a reply in that thread? I feel like there'd be different people interacting with the former and the latter, like for example, somebody who would've answered might've not been a part of that so they never saw your question to begin with, because it was in a thread they weren't interested in clicking on.

For all we know there could be a handful of these collaborators that are regularly active on here and they could give some insight as to how it all worked, but there's just no place that's relevant enough for them to give such an answer? I dunno, it'd just be interesting to see all of the ones who've made it out of production hell in a single spot on here