Premise < Execution

[Cherry_sama]

-Steps onto soapbox-

I’m probably going to get some hate for this, but what the heck.

A while ago, I remember seeing someone on the forums say (in response to a “what makes you subscribe to a comic” or something) that they look for comics with a good ol’ premise. And, looking at the front page, it seems a lot of people on Tapastic will subscribe to a comic based solely on its premise. Thing is, a comic’s premise says almost nothing about the quality of a comic, especially storytelling wise.

Don’t believe me? Well, allow me to illustrate…

Premise:
Once upon a time, a king of a powerful nation hears that one of their neighboring allies is under attack by an evil warlock. Despite his daughter’s concerns, he sails off to aid the Kingdom of Gamelon, and there is no word for a month. The worried princess then decides to send their kingdom’s finest knight to bring her father back. Yet more time passes and still nothing. Then the princess takes it upon herself to go, with her nursemaid, to Gamelon and find out what happened to both her father and their trusted knight.

End Result:
THIS.

Can you see the disconnect here?

Anybody can come up with a “good premise”, but if a creator doesn’t have the skill to back it up, then, at best, reading it will be a waste of your time. (At worst, it will be a frustrating experience for you as you watch as someone completely butchers a great premise.) It’s not a premise that should get you invested—it’s execution. Does the creator have the ability to make you feel attached to the characters? Does the creator have the skill to make their world seem believable and full of life? Is the creator able to make the dialogue sound natural and exposition flow seamlessly? THESE are the questions you should be asking when subscribing.

Yet, when I look at the front page of Tapastic (especially the Staff Picks section), it’s littered with comics that have only one or two pages to it’s name—hardly enough to tell whether or not something is worth your time. I have found the occasional comic that do have good execution, yet my favourite Tapastic comic thus far, Runewriters, doesn’t even have 800 Subs! And I don’t wanna name names here, but there are too many comics on the front page that have poor execution, but get 8K subs because they have a “good premise”.

So…no. Premise < Execution.

-Steps off of Soapbox-

[J.Z.Castillo]

[Greg_Dickson]

It's not just a good premise, but I find that a lot of comics gets staff picked here because they have really pretty art. That's it. Now I'm not saying that they can't turn into something awesome story-wise in time, but often I see comics that have JUST started, and only have one or two pages, but they are REALLY PRETTY...and then instant success - 8k subscribers. Yet there are comics out there that push with amazing stories for ages, and don't get that kind of dramatic bump. Like @phenylketonurics There's No Such Thing As Jason. It's my favourite comic on the site with a HUGE focus on characters and story. Totally deserves a major bump like a staff pick!

Nothing against pretty art, but I do think comics need more time to simmer before achieving instant success like that. One to two pages is not enough to tell how much a comic will hold up in the long run. This isn't an angry rant because I don't feel like I have enough subs or haven't achieved this instant success. I'm happy with my count and I only have less than 20 pages, so I'm not surprised I haven't landed a staff pick, but there are tons of well developed stories on this site that really deserve that exposure.

[indagold]

I swear to god there are comics on this site with a billion subs and it's either two pages long or has pretty art but no plot. But ohhh it has so many cool things that might happen, maybe, ehh...?

[El_Psy_Congroo]

Maybe staff picks should come with actual staff reviews?

[keii4ii]

While I agree 100% that execution > premise, I can't agree with this whole us VS them approach. This shouldn't be about bashing popular comics, even if you don't think they're well done. It's not that those comics don't deserve the subs they have. It's that the really well done ones deserve more.

[WakaXO]

I agree with @El_Psy_Congroo even just a short blurb about why they chose those comics would be very interesting, they wouldn't even have to go into great detail. To my understanding staff doesn't really explain the process of how staff picks works or who picks what, which I really dislike. I like how the Cole's bookstore does it, each staff pick has the staffers name on it so you can ask them specifically why they picked that particular book, usually the reasons are pretty good and it makes me interested in the book. But the way it's set up now it just feels like the staff is throwing comics our away haphazardly and going "meh look at this."

Personally it makes more sense to me that staff would pick comics a little further in than comics with only one or two pages but then again that is an issue that's up to the individuals and I'm sure the staff have a good reasons for their picks. But it would still be nice to see a few more further in comics in the staff picks.

Also I'm going to have to agree with @Greg_Dickson the art seems to be the most important thing in staff picks. Which isn't really a bad thing, I mean how do you judge a comic with only a few pages? You can really only go off for premise or art in that instance.

[VermillionWorks]

I'm just bringing up the Premise < Execution part of this topic...

This is why I always say not to be afraid of cliches when writing your story. If your story is executed well enough (great characters and a clever way to tell said story), then it can make a premise seem fresh and new.

And yes, it can also be the other way around. If you have a great, even supposedly 'fresh' idea, it can still fall flat if the meat of the story and the characters are lacking

[El_Psy_Congroo]

I feel like Canadian bookstores always have more of that independent feel, even big ones like Chapters. Barnes and Noble, in the states on the other hand, feels like a factory. It's artificial some how =/

I can't really give my opinion on anything on the front page - I hardly look at it to be honest. But I do think something written would be an excellent idea.

My favorite independent bookstore (favorite store really) is The Strand in NYC. They put a lot of effort in staff picks - it's part of the job, so I've heard. Their webpage even has all the staff members and all the reviews they've written so far. So it might be a good model to look into:
http://www.strandbooks.com/staff-picks/

What does @STAFF think?

[joannekwan]

Are you kidding? "Noo! You've killed me!" "Good!" is gold! (end Angry Video Game Nerd's review of the games reference.)

Anyway, yeah I agree, but what grinds my gears is when a series is a staff pick, and then they never update again, ever.
But I definitely have subbed to a couple staff picks and then the subsequent pages aren't all that stellar.
I would really like more focus on series that have at least 10 episodes out.

[shazzbaa]

(blushes and whispers omg that's very kind of you,,, ;A; )

I hope you'll forgive me for challenging this a little! Because I think a relevant question here is, to whom is this addressed?

If you're addressing Tapastic about their staff picks, saying, "hey, it doesn't make sense in this medium to spotlight every kid who has a great idea, wait a lil bit and spotlight the people who actually followed through and pulled it off" -- yeah, that's a reasonable argument, and definitely a perspective worth considering!

If you're addressing creators, reminding them to not get so wrapped up in their Very Original Idea that they don't think about the actual hard/important part of bringing it to life, that also makes sense to me. To say, "this is the most important part of the craft, don't neglect it!" is valuable advice!

But a lot of this seems to address people who are subbing and reading comics based on premise, informing them that execution should matter more...

It’s not a premise that should get you invested—it’s execution. Does the creator have the ability to make you feel attached to the characters? Does the creator have the skill to make their world seem believable and full of life? Is the creator able to make the dialogue sound natural and exposition flow seamlessly? THESE are the questions you should be asking when subscribing.

... and I feel like it doesn't quite work that way!
I don't sub to something because it's worthy of being recognised as good, and reading a comic isn't a vote for that comic to win the Popular Comic Award. I check out things I want to read and I keep following things I enjoy!
Ava's Demon is beautiful, well-told, well-designed, and apparently a really captivating story, but I opened it up and realised "oh, there's possession in this, it's too dark for me, I won't enjoy this story." The premise was ultimately more important: it doesn't matter how well the story is told if I'm not interested in that particular story.
And by the same token, if a story is imperfectly executed but hits enough of the right notes, a lot of people (myself included) will stick around anyway for those moments that resonate. People's reading habits aren't usually determined by which comics they think deserve the most attention --- they're determined by what you genuinely enjoy reading and want to see more of.

So, I do agree that execution is more important than premise in making a good comic! But as internet creators, I think it doesn't do us any good to get caught up in this idea of which comics "deserve" more subs/readers/popularity/patrons/notes/followers, because those things aren't a direct reflection of quality. Getting a spotlight or daily deviation or staff pick or whatever doesn't mean you're more deserving than everyone else.... and not getting those things doesn't imply that you're less deserving. ;u; In my view, it's just a wonderful opportunity!

[elixiadragmire]

[Puppisama]

The premise is not that important, there are plenty of good stuff with a somewhat petty premise but with a very well done excecution, for example, Batman: Your parents are killed and you become a hero on revenge... Another example: Pokemon, catch monsters... There are tons n' tons of other things that have the same exact premise and aren't as well known as those, why? is not the premise, is the excecution! Also, sometimes the best stories come from premises that are simple, because if it is too complicate it might hinder how you aproach to it.

[KSlinger]

If comics are the children of literature and film, the staff of Tapastic favour one side of the family over the other-- the pretty side, leaving the brains to be discovered for their other unique and charming qualities. They take the attractive children and push them front and center with the intention of raising awareness on behalf of the whole brood. Is it fair? Not really. Does it work? Yes it does. Are staff responsible for whether a creator flourishes under the spotlight they've been thrust into? No. Do the creators get a choice in this? Absolutely not.

Is there a villain here? No.

The staff have a task to do (draw people to the site) and the creators are responsible for their own stories (whether they deliver their premise, keep posting or not). Creators do not choose the popularity or attention they get, that's all there is to it.

[MissMagicGirl]

Of course the execution is important but personally I focus more on the story then on the art. It does not have to be really complicated art as long as the characters and story or humor is good. Great art is a plus but maybe the story (I guess the premise) is more important to me most of the time. It is usually not the artwork that makes me subscribe unless it is something really special ^_^

[shazzbaa]

Great art is a plus but maybe the story (I guess the premise) is more important to me most of the time.

Story and premise are different! Premise is like, the idea -- basically, the idea of what the story is about! "Execution" is not just art -- it's actually making the comic. That includes both art and story!

So basically what the original post is saying is, someone can have a really interesting idea for a story, but if they don't do a good job telling their story, it won't matter how good their idea was, the comic won't be as good as it could've been. Essentially, it's saying that telling a good story is more important than having an idea for a story that sounds good.

[ratique]

We can't expect everyone to have the same standards we have. Here on the forums we have a large amount of creators, people dedicated enough to draw their own story and also spend time with the community of the site they post on. Most of us here have very high expectations on their own work and on others. So I am not surprised that pretty much everyone here has a very similar personal opinion about this.

However, someone else just cares about beautiful artwork. The next one really likes a certain type of story and does not mind cliches or poor writing. They are not more correct or wrong in liking and supporting the comics they fell in love with.

[MissMagicGirl]

@shazzbaa Oh I see. Thanks for telling me. My english is not that good sometimes ^^;;

[spadesart]

I've always felt kind of weird about staff picks too because they're always comics that just started uploading and only have about 1-3 pages up :/ also kinda makes me feel like now that my comic is getting deeper in that the chance of getting one is gone now.

[haleymewsome]

Before I was put on Staff Picks/Daily Snack for Unfamiliar I was actually asked by the editor to release at least five pages, so that's definitely not always the case. :< And 'Daily Life' by Singa was placed on Staff Picks recently and it's been on Tap since March of 2015. It's not too late! Just keep doing your best.