Pretenious Art Rambling (from self) Background v. Character

[Nivardy]

I watched a movie last night.
(It's been a long time since I watched a movie.)

The movie I saw was called, "The Girl Who Leapt Though Time."

I was having a crisis of confidence involving my art, but came to a very important realization during the film.

I need to respect the environment just as much as I respect the characters. By that, I mean I should draw environments just as I draw characters. Take my time, express personality, and don't let the background sink behind the characters, but let the characters sink into the background.

There should be a symbiotic relationship between the two...

I felt really good thinking about this as a topic, and wanted to share.

[Im_moron]

here's a thing I learned from such a topic well

being lazy does not equal being efficient with your time.

sometimes you might need to cut corners, simply because making a very pretty background is not necessary or just too much effort when the scene in question is a character saying hello.

obviously, use shortcuts in ways where people won't notice it and it won't ruin the immersion.

sure, a character saying "hello" at a scene set in hyper detail setting can be okay, but if the setting isn't necessary for the effect, or the characters are just the focus of the scene, just go with a simpler background, so you don't overwork yourself.

you aren't a high budget anime studio who has the help of an animator, which is split up between rough animators, in between animators, and the guys who clean up the animation with special effects AND a background artist with its own subcategories of artist who work on making the background look amazing, you're just one person.

doesn't hurt to cut the time down by going easy on yourself. save that beautiful artistic energy on things and scenes that REALLY matter.

that's my two cents on me disagreeing with having to put equal effort on characters vs background (tldr: its impossible or just working unnecessarily hard on something that can only be achieved by multiple people to consistently do well)

[joannekwan]

Yes backgrounds are important, but I would advise you not to overdo them in every panel lest they get too busy and illegible.

I think a lot of anime have heavy background work because a large focus is to submerge the viewer into that world. The fantasy of the world, or the fantasy of the characters' abilities (when juxtaposed with a very real world in which we're all familiar with) is a large focus of the particular story and ergo needs to be emphasized with very detailed backgrounds. Characters don't get lost in them because they actually move and viewers' eyes are naturally drawn to motion.

And yes, while doing background work is a good skill to have, it's not absolutely necessary. I don't want any new comic-creators to be dissuaded from starting simply because their backgrounds suck. You can tell a good story even with the most limited resources. Look at stage plays, often they'll have very minimal props and backdrops to establish their settings, but they still tell stories successfully with the characters.

[Nivardy]

A fair and sensible response, thank you very much.

I agree with you, we shouldn't be too hard on ourselves.
and it does vary on context, of course.

This is simply a post telling myself that I should branch out from characters and focus a little more on the world they inhabit in order to really create an immersive experience.

[Nivardy]

I don't want any new comic-creators to be dissuaded from starting simply because their backgrounds suck.

Of course! What I meant to express is that I've personally found a new respect for environments, and would like to focus on them more in the future.

Look at stage plays, often they'll have very minimal props and backdrops to establish their settings, but they still tell stories successfully with the characters.

A very good point, however I would slightly argue that it's the utilization of those props and how characters interact with them that give them an "atmosphere".
(A friend showed me a...not so great production of "Heathers" and it is stuck on the brain.)

doing background work is a good skill to have, it's not absolutely necessary.

Huh...I wlll keep this in mind in order to stop myself from creating overly "busy" scenes.

Thank you very much for the thoughtful response!

[Hodge]

It probably depends on the type of story you're trying to tell. I watched a documentary on famous manga creators, and one thought backgrounds were totally unnecessary (she did romance, comedy, slice-of-life) and the other considered the background and setting to be just as important as the characters in telling the story (he did drama, psychological). There are great mangas that purposefully have overly-detailed backgrounds to contrast with simplified characters in order to express important themes, or some in which the setting is just as active of a storyteller as the characters. Then there are stories where backgrounds are nonexistent, such as a lot of romance mangas which focus on abstract imagery, mood, facial expressions, etc. that generally lean towards being character-centric, or also comedies that focus on jokes don't usually need detailed backgrounds.

That's all to say haha, that it really depends on what you are trying to convey to your reader. As someone who generally does fantasy I feel like it's really important to create an immersive setting for my stories. The writer has put all the effort into building a world that I want to portray some of that detail. I also really enjoy painting backgrounds now after I got over my fear of them lol. But this also means that it takes longer time and more effort to create panels, and so I have to be efficient and know when it's unnecessary/distracting to the reader or how to use shortcuts.

[Hexigate]

I cut corners with lens blurs.

ez

[Im_moron]

what I've been doing is show maybe a few panels of a good background, then just drop the quality of the backgrounds when shiz is getting real

or change the background to a specific color and maybe gradient background to symbolize emotion or presence of something instead of actually drawing a background.

I feel occasionally doing that gets the message across way better than putting a crop ton of time drawing an actual background.

[UrMom]

I'm one of those pro-background types. To me, no matter what genre, the environment and how your characters interact with it can help flesh things out. It can set certain moods, tell what kind of story you're making, or tell more about who a characters are. But you can go overboard. If your characters are having a dramatic scene, or you need to have the readers focus on a specific thing, it's good to keep the backgrounds more muted or less detailed. Sometimes it's just a matter of contrast, using colors to make the focal point pop against everything else, or a specific camera angle.
I myself tend to go a little overboard with my backgrounds, I love vibrant colors, painstaking detail, and working with varying perspectives. (I'm not getting paid for my comic, so I decided to take all the time I wanted on it) But I've been told my characters get drowned out, or that the backgrounds can be overstimulating.

How you use your environment is way more important than just having one. Sometimes it's good to chill out, throw in the occasional establishing shot, then do simple stuff until the detail is called for.

[KSlinger]

I'm big on character expressions, body language etc, so my backgrounds tend to be as minimal as I can get away with unless it's a distant or establishing shot. Really need to get better with them, honestly. Scenery can be wildly effective for framing important things and generating atmosphere, like lighting in games, and I'm really concious that I don't utilise it enough.

[TheFalseVyper]

I think whispwill does an amazing job with balancing the characters and the backgrounds.

It also helps that she's just amazingly talented.

Kings Folly :: Chapter 6 Page 180 | Tapas

[fuyudust]

To me, as a reader, the more detailed, beautiful backgrounds the better, like Makoto Shinkai's previous movie "The Garden Of Words", I have to say the story and characters didn't leave me any impression, but the backgrounds, the world, the greens, the rains, the atmospheres hit me real hard, I cant help but watch it over and over again.
But as a creator, the real matter to me is time and ... skill, while I want to make my comic as beautiful as possible, but I don't have the luxury time to spend a whole day on a single panel, then I encountered this comic called "Yuru Yuru" ( not Yuru Yuri )

The author uses very simple strokes and colors, it's nowhere near detailed and kind of sketchy if you take a closer look, but the world they created is beyond beautiful ( although it's not easy to mimic this style as I am trying ), this became my ideal goal for comic background.

[punkarsenic]

I need to respect the environment just as much as I respect the characters.

yesssssssss

By that, I mean I should draw environments just as I draw characters.

noooooooooo.

There should be a symbiotic relationship between the two...

yesssssssssssssssss

as an ex-theatre technician / set designer, putting care into your props and environments is not only really helpful, but it can be joyous. easter eggs, symbolism... theyre an invaluable asset to composition. in that particularly there should be a symbiotic relationship. but dont draw them the same - or at least, dont decide thats the only way. approach both character and environment drawing with the same level of care, but dont approach them the same way.

scott mccloud wrote some really interesting stuff about how cartooning vs realism has been used in comics - particularly european and manga. its often the case that characters are cartooned, in a very realistic environment - the simplified characters entered a more universal conceptual realm where the reader could wear them as a mask almost, and enter this sensually stimulating world of more detailed, realistic environments. similarly, props would vary from cartoony and realistic in manga depending if you wanted to focus on their idea, or physical beauty - a sword in a fight is an extension of your character, so its a cartoon, it has life and movement. then they stop to look at the hilt, and its in full detail, its an object, it has beauty.

i imagine on the flipside you could do super cartoony backgrounds w super realist characters, and explore the impact of that combination (which i might do, actually, eventually... copyrighted. watch out)

also, if you wanna look at a comic using environments to full advantage, i recommend vertigo by lynd ward. it predates the conventional graphic novel, and was a silent novel in woodcut prints - no / little text. the environments provide a lot of the symbolism, make the compositions pop, and tie together the entire story.

also, like, here by richard mcguire, obviously.

[mintycanoodles]

i love background art man, and honestly if i could make a comic without characters I would. i'm team background = character. both are important to me. i mean i get not everyone feels the same but honestly i'm annoyed when a comic doesn't seem to spend any time creating a believable environment.

so shoutout to the black brick road of oz, whose backgrounds make me openly weep. also to check please! because it's just amazing period but samwell feels so real. the haus is as much of a character as anyone else and you feel the love in the...smelly disgusting frat house.