Proper Ways To Review?

[ReroOnyx]

I've noticed a lot of times that when people give reviews, while they may not necessarily be wrong on them, I do find that sometimes the attitude can be a bit disheartening even if good intentions are meant. When giving a review, here are some pointers I have and in the meantime perhaps you have some pointers you'd like to provide as well.

1.) Never be Negative:

This is pretty obvious but don't be negative at all in your review. Even if the comic looks legitimately terrible and has so many flaws it makes "The Room" look like a masterpiece, nobody wants to hear negativity. If you can't provide positive or constructive reviews, don't bother at all.

2.) Be Constructive.

If you think something in a comic has a problem, tell them about it and tell them potentially what might help to fix it. Be friendly and act supportive for their work.

3.) Be Positive:

People want to hear good things about their work. If you come and do nothing but criticize or just add one positive thing like, the character seems cool. That doesn't give much inspiration to the artist. It's good to get an artist to know their flaws and what they can fix, but nobody wants to be bombarded by everything that's wrong with their comic. So be positive, if you can for every critique, try to add something positive like:

Your character interaction is getting good. I find your usage of colors improving through each page. Page 12 was a definite improvement from the last, please keep it up. Positive comments like this keep artists inspired and accomplished while also taking note of their own flaws and what they can fix.

In the end, a good review is something that should be both supportive, positive and ultimately constructive. Make an artist feel good about their work and show that they can do great things if they push to try and work improving bits that need work.

I've seen many reviews that are just like:

"Sorry but, your comic needs work. It's slowly paced, the drawings are crooked and the typesetting is off."

It's like, where's the inspiration to improve if all we get is negativity and harsh critiques? Even if all the above is true, nobody is going to feel inspired to improve their work. They're just going to feel let down in the end.

[TrustyShamrock]

i heard once somewhere to do review sandwiches. like say somethin nice then somethin they gotta work on and somethin nice again. tis lots easier to read that way i reckon

[keii4ii]

Are we talking about reviews (written for readers) or critiques (written for the creator of the thing they're critiquing)?

I kind of get what you mean by "never be negative," but I think it could use clarifying. "Negative" is a very broad term. I don't believe every review should consist of 100% praises (and I'm pretty sure we're in agreement, but like I said... just clarifying). It's just when you point out a flaw, you should do so without bashing the work. It's possible to be harsh without bashing the work!

i heard once somewhere to do review sandwiches. like say somethin nice then somethin they gotta work on and somethin nice again.

That's one way to do it. Basically, you don't want the creator to feel like there's zero merit to their work. You want them to know they're doing SOMETHING right. But this really depends? Like, sometimes people SEE good things, but choose not to say anything because they're focusing on how to help improve the work. And that works out just fine for both parties in some situations.

Every situation is different, so it's hard to say "EVERY critique should meet these criteria X, Y and Z!" Sometimes people just want a quick drive thru crit on a specific thing; other times, they may be feeling lost, and may need more positive support.

[shazzbaa]

Wow, I'm not gonna lie, this is not how I look at it at all!

Like, I think it's fine for a creator to know that an unfavourable review will be discouraging, and it's okay to not seek crit or to really need positive comments! But if you're feeling that way, I guess, I don't think that's a good time to go to someone who's offering to give a review? That's an assessment of your comic, and it doesn't seem fair to expect that assessment to skew positive!

Like, review in any other context -- a movie review, a restaurant review -- is an assessment of the experience. And when a review seems to be done just to promote a movie, rather than to objectively evaluate it, the review feels dishonest. Maybe I'm the odd man out here, but it's weird to me when people expect webcomic reviews to be different! Like thinkin' it'll be just a nice bit of promotion and maybe some friendly tips and encouragement.

I mean, if someone posts on the forums saying "hey, I'm really nervous but can you guys tell me what you think of my comic? I want to know what I can do better!' then yeah absolutely, I think trying to be as encouraging and constructive as possible is good to do! And I think it's good to remember that "critique" doesn't just mean finding flaws -- it's important to note what works as well as what doesn't. But.... I don't know that I'd think of that as a review... and the idea that all reviews/critique should be that way is weird to me?

EDIT: oh dang @keii4ii said it way better!!

[Michelle]

Yeeaah, I agree with @keii4ii, this sounds more like you're talking about critiques than reviews. If you're asking for a review, you're asking for that person's opinion and whether or not they liked the work. If you're asking for a critique, you're asking for helpful pointers on what's good and what needs improving.

Personally I don't like review blogs that are all positive. I feel it waters down the reviews of comics that are actually good if everything the site reviews get high praises. Getting a bad review isn't the end of the world, and a mature comic artist should be able to use that feedback to improve themselves. In this case I'm talking about a fair review, and not someone obviously ripping a comic to pieces and pooping on it.

I see critiques more as something a an artist provides to their fellow artist, but a review is someone providing feedback solely as a reader, which is incredibly valuable. If they didn't enjoy the comic, I want them to be honest about it in their review. All back-pats and high fives might make the road to artistic growth more comfy, but it'll also make it slow as hell.

[ReroOnyx]

Considering reviews and critiques are just kind of put in the same compartment here I kind of put them in the same category even if they are technically different. I'm sure if anyone on here asked to review their work, they want both a combination of critiques and personal view points.

[Michelle]

Personally speaking, not really!

If I asked for a critique, it's usually on something I'm still working on and I want in-depth feedback from a fellow artist. If I'm asking for a review, I'm much more interested in the personal opinion of the reader.
If they have suggestions for me, that's great too, but I use reviews as a way to get into the head of someone reading my comic for enjoyment. Even better if they're not an artist, because they see my comic differently than another comic artist would.

[ReroOnyx]

The problem is that there isn't exactly a critique section. It's just "Review."

So the section has just become a point to simultaneously give critiques and give personal view points from both readers and artists. And it would work the opposite way as well. If someone came in and just said:

"Your comic is amazing..." and left it as that, while quite positive isn't very informative or helpful. Frankly even if someone asked for a review, that shouldn't stop someone from giving a proper critique because I feel that kind of goes hand in hand. Especially with a site like this and new artists are around.

If anything, a critique is just a more prominent review. Reviews and Critiques might be different but Tapastic doesn't exactly differentiate between them.

Also on another note, yes...don't be harsh. You should try to keep the negativity as low as you can and the constructive criticism and positive nature high. I think people often end up being very aggressive if unintentionally. It's a difference between saying.

"Your coloring needs work" and "There's a few points in your coloring that could use some improvement. Try this shading style and see if it helps." The latter just gives off a friendlier feeling.

I think people find this hard because for one, people don't realize the harshness of their review or critique. They want to be constructive but sometimes the wording can just come off wrong. Plus reviews and critiques work differently for different environments. For example a person reviewing a restaurant needs to be strict and assertive. Because this is an environment that effects a lot of people and flaws can have a devastating affect on them.

Reviewers who make money sometimes need to be harsh because that's what gives a revenue. I'm a fan of such things as The Nostalgia Critic and those who are also I think will agree that if he was just polite and kind in all his reviews, it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining.

In a comic hosting site like this though, that level of harshness or aggressiveness that might be necessary in the above environments isn't really needed here. If a seemingly new artist is working on something, be helpful and push them towards the right direction. Positive isn't a synonym for praise.

If M.Night Shamylan makes "Last Air Bender 2" and it's just as bad as the first, it's like... "Have you learned nothing man?"

Because one needs the supportive push, the other should just kind of know better by now.

[Michelle]

"Your coloring needs work" and "There's a few points in your coloring that could use some improvement. Try this shading style and see if it helps." The latter just gives off a friendlier feeling.

I don't see the former as harsh, but more like incredibly vague. In which case yes, I agree that's not helpful. Saying "____ looks off" doesn't help anyone, and it's more indicative that people need to up their critique game.

It's one thing to say "This doesn't look right", but to be able to verbalize why it doesn't look right takes practice and experience. I think learning how to do a proper critique is just as helpful for the critique giver as it is for the receiver, because being able to see strengths and weaknesses and understanding why you think of them as such makes you a better artist!

So while I don't think people need to walk on eggshells while giving feedback--- a thick skin and ability to differentiate feedback from trolling is essential-- I do agree that people should offer more useful and pointed feedback other than "This doesn't look right, fix it".

[ReroOnyx]

Perhaps the word harsh isn't the word I'm looking for, so much as it is "overly critical."

I've seen so many reviews (or critiques if so be it) where it's like:

"Here is everything wrong with your comic." With an attitude that just kind of feels like they want to focus on all the flaws and never once look at the points that are good or at the very least are working in the right direction and with a few adjustments will look quite nice.

[NickRowler]

"Never Be Negative"

Um...no. If you are reviewing something in order to help them improve, you need to point out flaws within their work. If you looked at my stuff and told me "Your characters look stiff" or "A lot of your pages lack backgrounds", yes these are negative aspect but they need to be addressed if they want to help me improve. Now that different then saying "You suck at drawing, delete your account." which is unhelpful and rude.

I do agree with putting positive aspects in, but you can not be only positive. The whole point is to help the person improve, so you have to point out the flaws.

I get the feeling someone reviewed your work and you were unhappy with it....I been in that situation. But the best thing to do is take the advice (if it is helpful) or just brush it off and move on.

[ReroOnyx]

Nobody wants to hear negative things about their work, though its something they need to expect and understand to ultimately improve their work. So it's always good to get a balance that makes the artist feel good about their work but also makes them understand that they do have flaws and there a ways for them to improve it.

As for the last part, the exact opposite actually. I've gotten helpful and constructive reviews/criticism that are both informative and positive. It made feel great about the good stuff I've done and things I've improved. Plus it also made me see the points that needed work and how I could go about in improving them.

I've been looking at other reviews that just want to focus on all the flaws and never once give the time to offer some supporting words.

So many times I've seen a review/critique like this.

"I'm sorry but your art needs work. The proportions are off, the color needs to be improved and I can't understand the story very well."

And the above, even if true, is not mean spirited or trolling, but there's no sense of comfort in it. There's no sense that the potential reviewer understands the artist and wants to help them. They just want to point out the flaws and hope the artist has enough sense to fix everything somehow. That support is lacking in a lot of reviews and it leaves new artist kind of hanging with a sense that they just aren't good enough.

If someone can point out a flaw to something, they should also be able to express what can be done to improve it and/or why that point is flawed. Sometimes people may not necessarily see the problem even if it feels obvious to others. For example in my works people have said that my art is sometimes off proportional. Which as I look through my work I can see what they mean. However they add to this by saying that my heads or eyes are too large/small and it's like:

Ah ha! Now I see! I finally see what they mean and I can work on it. This with the combination of positive remarks makes me feel great without giving me a false sense of entitlement because I know that thought I do have some good things, I also have some flawed parts.

These positive yet constructive reviews have helped to inspire me to work harder.

[myga]

I would like to reassure anybody who will ever review my work, that the above rules DO NOT APPLY to reviews I want and need.
I do not need anybody to praise me - this is what my mum is for . What I need is for the readers to tell me what they don't like and why, so I can see my work through the eyes of the people who I am addressing my comics to.
So, to summarise, in any reviews of my work (by the way, my comic is Tales of Old Gods ) NEGATIVITY IS GOOD. Obviously, it'd be nice if you point out what why you give negative comment (even better if you advise how to fix the problem), but I will read, appreciate and thank you for any opinion. At the end of the day, anybody who ever wants to make it in comic book business, has to get used to rejection and negative opinions in order to handle replies from agents, editors and publishing houses.

[NickRowler]

However they add to this by saying that my heads or eyes are too large/small and it's like:

Ah ha! Now I see! I finally see what they mean and I can work on it.

But saying the heads/eyes are too large/small is stating negative aspects. Yes, a reviewer should word it in a helpful way but avoiding saying anything negative or bad is not helpful. And there are situations where people want reviewers to nitpick their piece because they don't want a flowery review, they want something that helps push them forward.

[shazzbaa]

I agree with @Michelle -- I can definitely get behind the idea of "be specific" -- but I'm still not quite on board for "never be negative." Feedback like "the perspective is off" might not be helpful, but that's not because it's too negative, it's because it's vague. You could go into great detail of all the ways the perspective is wrong and how it should've been drawn instead, and that's still "focusing on all the flaws"....... but it's much more helpful.

The thing is, that's what some people are looking for. I've seen enough people on these forums express frustration at not getting "real, honest feedback" -- feeling anxious that people are just "being nice" -- to know that we need both kinds of critique. To those people, a plain, straightforward crit will be far more reassuring than a mostly-positive, encouraging one. (I'd consider plain critique to be things like "Your coloring needs work, here's what needs to be fixed" -- it could be kinder, but it's not overly negative.)

So, I actually think it's really important for the person requesting feedback to be honest about what they want. To say if they're just looking for advice and feedback, or if they need to know what they're doing well and what can be improved, or if they're really looking for someone to not go easy on them, "don't pull any punches, tell me what you really think!"

And again... I think it's important to remember that it's really okay for a creator to be in a place where they're not open to critique. I promise, it doesn't make someone a bad artist to not ask for reviews! ;u; I think it's better to get to a place where you're confident first. If you know that someone telling you all the things that are wrong with your comic is gonna make you feel down and unmotivated to improve it..... maybe that's not a good time to seek out critique!
What you can seek, instead, is instruction and advice. Instead of asking "critique/review my comic please," it might be better to ask for others' feedback on specific things -- "Here's what my pages look like now -- what can I do to improve my colouring style?" or "does anyone have any advice for how I can draw a good environment? Here's the one I'm happiest with so far!"

[AnnaLandin]

1.) Never be Negative:

This is pretty obvious but don't be negative at all in your review. Even if the comic looks legitimately terrible and has so many flaws it makes "The Room" look like a masterpiece, nobody wants to hear negativity. If you can't provide positive or constructive reviews, don't bother at all.

Others have already said this, but this needs clarification; it's okay to be honest about not liking something. It's okay to point out when something is legitimately terrible. An honest opinion on the quality of the work is what reviews are for.

However, there are ways to do this that are better than others. "I did not like this work at all, let me explain the reasons why" is a better way to do it than "oh my god this work sucks and I want to set it on fire". They're both negative, but one of them is certainly more useful than the other.

"Sorry but, your comic needs work. It's slowly paced, the drawings are crooked and the typesetting is off."

... I honestly find this to be a useful critique. It points out three specific problems that the creator can work on and it's not hostile at all. The creator now knows they should think about tightening up the pacing (i.e: spend less panels per scene), straighten up the drawings a bit and pay more attention to the lettering. It could do with some mentions of what the comic DOES do well, but all in all, it's not a terrible review. It's just not very long.

Whenever I review a comic, I tend to use the sandwiching technique mentioned in this thread - start out with positive first impressions, go on to the flaws I found and what I think can be done about them, and then end on a positive encouraging note, but if I received one of the one-sentence reviews like the example you posted above, I would find it honestly useful.

It's like, where's the inspiration to improve if all we get is negativity and harsh critiques? Even if all the above is true, nobody is going to feel inspired to improve their work. They're just going to feel let down in the end.

When you ask for a review (which is how most of us indie creators get in-depth reviews), you're already kind of implying to the reviewer that you're doing it BECAUSE you want to improve. If that urge to improve disappears because someone said "Sorry, your comic needs work." then you weren't really looking for an honest review - you were looking for praise. Those are two different things.

I do not in ANY way encourage harshness as a habit for reviewers; your review isn't better because you're harsh and unforgiving - but at the same time, when a creator asks for a review, they need to go in knowing that it might be negative (and do see my earlier statements on levels of negativity). It's always worth keeping in mind who the review is addressed to; never be dishonest and say you like something when you don't, but adjust the depth of the review depending on who is asking for it.

Addressing a review to someone who has a decade+ of drawing comics behind them is different from addressing a review to a 14 year old who has been drawing comics for a few weeks, you know?

"Your coloring needs work" and "There's a few points in your coloring that could use some improvement. Try this shading style and see if it helps." The latter just gives off a friendlier feeling.

Both of these are valid critiques, and I don't find the first one particularly harsh. It's just a statement of fact, and a perfectly neutral one. I would probably phrase it as "Your colouring needs some work. Here are the particular things that stand out of me: [examples.] From now on, keep [colouring method/fact/colour theory rule] in mind."

[UzukiCheverie]

Never be Negative:

Nobody wants to hear negative things about their work,

Then stay out of the art world lol

It's a cutthroat world, where improvement is always to be had. It's not fair to anyone to be blindly positive about everything because this tends to do more damage than being outright "negative" in the first place. And negativity =/= being an arse.

I'm not saying be all "your work is shit, you suck at this, go die" lol But if you, as an artist, end up molded to believe that negativity is "wrong" and anything that isn't positive praise isn't constructive, then you're not going to make it very far as an artist.

Hell, I'll critique my own work right now. I suck at drawing hands. A lot of my male characters look boxy and gross. I suffer from same-face syndrome a lot, especially when it comes to females. My panelling is very mundane and uncreative 80% of the time, and I could do with more thinking outside the box (hehehehehe puns lol) Have others told me these things before? Yes. Have I accepted the fact that I, as an artist, will always have something to improve on and will have to face hardships and sometimes negative critiques to do so? Yes, yes, and yes.

Yeah, it sucks to hear this shit from other people, but if it's what you need to hear to improve, then you just gotta grow some thicker skin and accept that you're not perfect; no one is.

I can guarantee you, as a comic creator, digital artist, and animator, you wouldn't last two seconds in the actual industry you specialize in (whether it's commercial art or animation, or whatever) if you expected people to always pander to your sensitivities regarding your work.

If you're looking for validation and comforting, then you're not looking for a critique, you're looking for someone to nod and smile. I wouldn't say "Never Be Negative" - "Always Be Constructive" is the better method and "Don't be a dick" pretty much hits it home.

You don't want anyone to tell you your work is good all the time. No one ever improved that way.

[ReroOnyx]

Accidently edited this post when I was trying to make my next post. My entire fault there.

Nobody wants it, but sometimes it's what they need.

No they really don't. If you really want to help out someone, you give them "Constructive Criticism." Here's the thing you can say something like "Your art needs work." But if that's all you say and you don't bother to offer to add to it and help them improve that. This is negative criticism and I've seen it a lot. It might be the truth but its unhelpful.

The way you word something even if they have the same meaning can resonate with someone much differently.

"Your art needs work." and "Your art has some flaws, here are some things I think might help improve it."

Both these messages are the same thing. They talk about the art and the need to improve it. Except not only does one attempt to help show what can be done, its worded simply a friendlier manner. Be friendly, show that you want to support the artists improvement by giving good advice.

Also I think anyone who honestly asks for "negative" or "overly critical" reviews or critiques is just full of themselves and are just overconfident in their work. That's the intentions I've always gotten at least. I think what they mean is that they want to hear the flaws but they don't want things to be harsh.

People, unless their narcissists or something, don't mind being told the flaws of their work. What they hate is people talking about the flaws with no support. This is kind of way off topic but I think it still fits. It's like punishing a child. If you merely spank a child, you aren't helping them. They only know the negative side of the punishment.

Now imagine a parent or guardian who sits down with their child, tells them what they did wrong and why that is. In this case a child who has done something wrong is being supported by someone to understand those flaws. So put that in terms of a review or in this case I guess, a critique.

Support the artist. Make them feel comfortable and give them a friendly environment. If they have done something wrong, talk to them in a friendly way on what this flaw is, maybe why its flawed and what they can do to improve themselves.

[UzukiCheverie]

I think some of you might be under the impression that "negativity" must be something like "mean spirited" or "rudeness." While those things are negative, the word itself doesn't necessarily encompass that. Negativity doesn't have to represent rudeness but adversity, distrust and reluctance.

No, that's what you're making it out to be lol You've made that perfectly clear:

Nobody wants negativity and nobody deserves it. Nobody should expect Negative Criticism either.

^^^^ And that's exactly why

Nobody wants it, but sometimes it's what they need. You may not want to hear me say that your art (not yours specifically, hypotheticals here) needs work and your coloring is dull and could use more vibrant lighting, and here's how you can do it, but if it's what you need to hear? Then you either take it and learn from it or you brush it off and move on and keep doing your own thing until you improve on your own. People who go actively searching for critiques? They know they're putting themselves on the cross, they know they could potentially hear something they don't want to hear, and all of that is exactly why they're on the road to success - because they're at least stepping forward and saying "Hey! I want your opinions! Tell me how I can do better!" They acknowledge that they're going to hear good things and bad, and that all they can do is work their hardest to improve from that point on - and "negative" criticisms, as you call them, at least give them a good place to start, especially for people just starting out who may not recognize where they actually need improving.

No, you definitely shouldn't have just negative criticism. But that doesn't mean "Never be negative" needs to be a rule of thumb either. As many have stated, and as I tend to follow it myself, do the criticism sandwich - start with something good, tell them where they need improvement, and end on a good note with something good.

But if someone's actively looking for what you'd consider to be "negative" criticisms, then that's their choice. They want to know how they can improve and they don't want to hear what probably tons of other people (including friends and family members who might not be experienced in dishing out art critiques - it does take a certain amount of artistic comprehension and analysis to do so that people build up over time with experience and practice) have already told them. Don't deny them that if it's what they're looking for.

Overall, erase that line between "positive" and "negative". Stop trying to differentiate between them so much. Be constructive. Tell them what they do well, and where they need improvement. "Positive" and "negative" are way too broad of terms to really categorize for every specific individual. Just don't be a dick, and don't deny someone what they want to hear (or maybe need to hear) when they actively go looking for critiques. If they didn't want to be told what skills are weaker than others or where they could improve, they wouldn't be looking for a critique in the first place - they'd be going to a friend or family member who they know would coddle them. And if they can't handle that, then that's something for them to learn the hard way as they try to grow as artists. We as webcomic artists are (and should be) held to the exact same standards as every other artistic creator in the world - learn from your mistakes, and accept that you're not always going to hear what you want to hear (and if you just get trolls or people who have it out for you, then that's something you either deal with or just learn to move on from - that's just one of the many joys that pertains specifically to Internet creators, seeing as how we're posting to a platform that's open to thousands. Setting people's expectations up for positivity all the time will NOT help them, ESPECIALLY in an era where a lot more people, inexperienced and more experienced, are exposed to our work, outside of our own social circles.)

[ReroOnyx]

I accidentally edited my recent post, my mistake on that part. But look over there. Again, my mistake.

But yeah I'm going to go back to what I said in my very first post and take nothing back. If one can't be constructive and positive, they shouldn't bother to critique at all. A good critique is one that both supports the artist's positives while simultaneously noting their flaws and what they can do improve them. A good critique is friendly and helpful, not confrontational.

It's like the old saying goes "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all." and nice here doesn't mean "praise" it means "constructive Criticism." and merely saying "your art needs work." is not only nonsupporting, it's not constructive criticism.