Rant on revealing clothes ("fan service")

[bakasama25]

Some people just have a fetish for women getting humiliated and embarassed.

[indagold]

The clothing were designed to look specifically like hooker clothing or stripper clothing? I don't know how that is degrading one's sexuality if they were designed under the pretense of selling sex, not real and possibly by someone who isn't even female. And honestly even if there was a female behind it it doesn't justify it either. They're just perpetrating the same thing as men.

[Michelle]

@indagold My statement was that using words like "hooker" "slut" "whore" etc when describing women in revealing clothing is an underhanded way of saying that a woman who has a lot of sex has a lesser value. You generally don't hear someone being called a "hooker" in a nice or neutral way.

My understanding based off the original topic is that we are NOT discussing sex workers (and with word choice like "bikini sexy shit" "pink panties" and "pervy old men" my assumption is the argument is largely concerning female fan service.)

Yes, men are objectified too, and no one here is excusing that. But to say that women and men are objectified in the same way and to the same extent is reductive and overlooking a lot of factors.

[niinasalmelin]

I actually can dig this if the characters are rocking the clothes. It needs the attitude to go along. Most of the time it can be missing and then it gets weird.

[indagold]

Okay I just explained that in this context it makes sense because the creators intent was to make them look like hookers/strippers. Your argument really does not make sense because it's not directed towards sex workers or real living woman. These creators specifically want these characters to look like sex workers. That's the whole point of fanservice. It's pretense is selling sex!

Sure woman may be objectified more than men but it makes no difference as to how. A comic made by a woman with objectified men is no different from a man doing that do the same to a woman. It's basically just the reverse of the same problem.

I would actually be more happier of people showing healthy views on sex. Objectification doesn't help on either side.

[Michelle]

@indagold My argument doesn't make sense to you because I wasn't talking about your scenario, I was talking about the original post.

Just because objectification is not focused on a real woman does NOT mean that objectification doesn't effect people's real-world ideas about sexuality and consent. Where do most views on sexuality come from? Television, movies, advertisements, video games, comics--- all largely consisting of things that aren't "real" in the literal sense.

I'm not talking about literal sex workers here and I think you are wildly missing the point.

I would actually be more happier of people showing healthy views on sex. Objectification doesn't help on either side.

THIS is what I am saying, and we can both agree on that. And a healthier view on sex means not equating women expressing their sexuality or preference for revealing clothing with calling them hookers.

[indagold]

yeah I am talking about the original post. I don't see it as offensive. It makes sense because clearly people who make fanservices intention for the characters to look like hookers. I've even see people who design these characters with the intent for them to look like hookers. The original poster was not insulting woman, they were insulting the fact these artists can't represent woman without imagining them as looking like hookers. I can agree with that. these characters do look like strippers or sex workers. It was the creators intention anyway, it's how they view women.

[scythe]

Oh shit, looks like I kicked the hornets nest here. Good. This issue needs some of that. There's so much hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance surrounding how people react to portrayals of women in media, it's getting beyond a joke.

[nessiefynn]

Honestly, I don't really care too much about strippy clothing as long as it's not tooridiculous or in your face, like bikini armor in realistic settings, or constant panty shots. Short skirts and cleavage don't bother me as long as they're presented as something fun and silly, kinda like how Panty and Stocking handles it's fanservice.

[Vikiro_Hop]

Yah, I used to bitch about fan service all the time and have since gotten over it. If people wanna watch a barley clothed person in increasingly improbable scenarios designed to show off more skin then let them have their fun. Sometimes simple entertainment can be the most cathartic. It doesn't always suit me but fan service can be used cleverly to add humor to whatever it is I'm checking out.

When fan service gets in the way of plot I do get mad. I mostly notice this in anime HOTD and Fairy Tale being the big offenders for me. Not necessarily character designs but when tension is building and we get some crazy boob physics or a super long panty shots it gets old. That being said there is some fairly hilarious harem anime out there that doesn't take itself seriously and uses fan service to drive the plot along.
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[nananana]

Sorry if I sounded like I was slut shaming but I dislike it when people do this to their characters I mean hardly dressing them is up to the creator and all so yeah I mean u don't see a girl everyday wearing just her underwear.... and superficial bodies...plus these kind of things kinda say "girls should only wear revealing clothing" why haven't I seen a cool character dressed in sweatpants and a shirt. I just don't like that people do this to their characters. And they design them like that probably to make them attractive and sorry for using "hooker" that probably wasn't the right word, I honestly don't like guy fan service. Clothes don't define a woman's worth I know that but it wasn't meant to sound like how I wrote it, overly sexualized characters just is ugh to me.
I get it if i don't want to read something like that I shouldn't but they would at least write that it is rated for a certain age or something like that inform that there'll be stuff like that. This rant was just for those creators who make their characters look so off from their story or super off and fo over made fanservice

[Michelle]

No hard feelings! I appreciate you thinking it over as it's a real issue that women have to deal with.

I do understand your frustration, fanservice just for fanservice's sake is obnoxious. But also I'm reminded of a really interesting article that has an insightful take on characters who looks "off" from the rest of the cast. It talks about several ways female character's clothing can tell us about them, but I like what it has to say about Dragon Age's Isabela (who, if you're not familiar with the games, is a very voloptuous pants-less pirate lady):

"What makes Isabela’s overt, scantily clad sexy look agreeable is that it makes sense for her character, and the women whose personalities don’t make sense for that kind of garb…don’t wear it. That contrast gives us an immediate sense of who Isabela is, because we know that pantslessness for women isn’t the norm in this world. If Aveline didn’t wear pants, we would lose both some of Aveline’s characterization and some of Isabela’s. There would be no contrast."

So yeah, there's throwing in cheap fanservice to provide your viewer with fapping material, but it's also possible to use a character who dresses differently/more sexily to say something about the other characters.