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Apr 2019

I think my messages were COMPLETELY misunderstood, but I feel so much that no effort was made at all to try to understand them that I'm not sure how much time I want to spend to try to explain myself better.

I never, ever implied any ' warnings' or even promotion should be made. I was merely wondering how a LGBT person creating non-romance LGBT content can tasefully advertise to other LGBT persons because I felt the need to read such content myself. That's all. And I never, ever would post under the BL or GL categories, that have way too negative implications for LGBT people to be salvagable as genres in my opinion.

You are by far not the only person in this thread. And you also grossly misunderstood my statements, and tried to claim that any kind of promotion fell into the category of "baiting." When I was addressing something very specific and very predatory that happens in a lot of media. Especially when targeting the LGBT community.

Yeah that's "bait and switch". Baiting is it's own thing.

No. A bait and switch is different. I am talking about queerbaiting. An actual thing people do. There is no switching. Just a promise never fulfilled.

Why don't you just add a subtitle on the thumbnail. "A Supernatural Noir-RIVER CITY"

Because it's not supernatural and I wasn't seeking advice on what to do with my thumbnail in the first place.

Sorry, i meant to write Superpowered Noir,but it's just an idea. Why are you looking to pinpoint your genre?

If you don't understand why figuring out the specific genre of your own story is important, no explanation I can give will satisfy you.

This is of course the reason people have been asking for a wider range of genres or a large list of sub-genres for as long as I've been here and I'm sure long before. Most noir-esque these days in mainstream media falls into action. One of the tips I got for picking genre was to try and find what's the biggest thing in the plot by taking things out. If you plot is nothing without the romance, it's a romance. If your story is bland and dead without action, it's action. If future tech drives the plot, it's sci-fi. Doesn't always work, but it helps. Jenna Moreci has a pretty helpful video which I think includes that tip actually.

I don't think something like including LGBT letters in your thumbnail implies romance whatsoever, since I don't think being trans or asexual ect has anything to do with romance, as opposed to BL/GL which explicitly imply romance as a main factor. It's just a simple way to advertise it. You seem to have the problem of wanting to advertise that it's there for an LGBT audience but at the same time not wanting to do so and I'm not sure there's anything to say to help there.

When you say you're having trouble pinning down a genre, do you specifically mean finding a category to label it on Tapas? Because if so, I recommend "Drama," as it seems to fit the tone of your comic so far, and also there are fewer of them so it's easier to trend :wink:

If you mean in a more general sense, it really is tough with a story like this to just pick one. The comic I write with my friend is similar in that it's a period drama (1930s), but also there's advanced technology, and also there's some magic (but not enough to call it "magical realism"), and also there are a lot of LGBT characters, including the main protags who are a couple, and they're gangsters. Not political enough to be a crime story, not ENOUGH magic to be fantasy, too much of both to be Romance.

Mostly I just tell people it's "action," but if I have a bit more space, we've kinda settled on the tagline "romantic jazz era adventure." In your case, from what's up so far it seems to lean more Drama. If Phenoms are as common as they seem to be from the narrative, Magical Realism could be a good fit? "Future Magical Realism" or "Urban Fantasy Noir." Both of those things imply some assumption of action and drama, to my mind, the latter especially fits the "dark alleyways with neon pink magic dog" aesthetic which makes it so unique so far.

In any case, it's off to an intriguing start and I'm excited to meet the third of the main characters!

@HGohwell Ooh! Thanks for the video! I'll have to watch it. And following the "take stuff out" example, I'm still torn on the line between drama and action. I think I need to start digging into what exactly defines each genre. Because on the one hand, the action is the primary goal. I mean, eventually I have a scene that's a character on a motorcycle in a chase, who blasts into a night club at full speed. But....I also have long gaps between such scenes that deals with interpersonal issues and deep emotions. So it comes down to figuring out how much action makes it not drama, and how much down time makes it not action.

And I think you've misunderstood my stance on the LGBT thing. I would have no issue using the acronym somewhere on my thumbnail, once I decide to change it. My issue was with the people suggesting more than that--from flag colors ("use of certain color schemes"), being "stylistically fabulous" or having people in a romantic situation. That was all just bizarre, honestly.

@Croik I think one of the problems I'm running into is I'm super unclear on what "rules" there are to each category. Like what are the bounds to calling something "magic." Phenoms are more akin mutants of the X-Men variety, only without the spandex and heroic duty. But it's also not superheroes, because no capes or silly costumes or any of the other trappings. And with that, if it's not actually magic, can it even be urban fantasy? And I've settled on calling it "semi-futuristic" because it's kind of split. It's very much an 80s aesthetic with a vaguely futuristic twist but only slightly. And it's hard to ask for someone else to look at it right now, because we're still in the "establishing" phase. Most action stories look like drama at that point. Urban fantasy looks like slice of life. It's not an good frame of reference.

I am, however, leaning slightly more toward drama I think? Again, I need to delve into what the boundaries of what each one is.

I'm so excited for people to meet Jackie. She's dear to my heart, and she'll show up in just a few pages!!

Part of it is does the plot fall apart without it. When it comes down to it, is your plot driven by action or emotion driven. If you look at action films, they're driven pretty much only by someone did something like kidnap someone or steal something or blow something up and the response is action over action over action, while drama's are to do with interactions between characters. Try asking which drives you plot more? Is the inciting incident something personal and emotional, or something physical that happened?

Ah, I must have misunderstood then. Sorry. I did think it odd that near kisses and the like were suggested for something non-romantic.

The problem is both are important. If I remove either, the story doesn't work. The "remove things" method only works so far. It brings you down to the essential elements, but there's still a gray area between the two. Which is why I need to start digging into the boundaries between the two genres.

I'm just glad people stopped with the weird, romantic suggestions.

Well, if people with weird romantic suggestions about your comic isn't your thing then I'm not sure posting it on the internet is for you. That is about 90% of the comments I've gotten or seen on comics. The internet does love its ships.

Ahh okay. If they're more like mutants than magic (dare I say, Quirks?) something like "near-future noir" or "sci-fi noir" fits better then.

As for Drama vs Action, if you're concerned about the genre "rules" as far as Tapas is concerned, I would say, don't be. Functionally I don't think most users care about the distinction, and more people are going to be looking at Trending and Popular or searching tags than they are searching by genre, at least when it comes to these two genres.

But one way to look at it is, what's at stake? When we the audience are engaging with the main conflict, are we worried about our heroes surviving, or are we more worried about their morals or mental state or relationships? Of course they're all on the table, but if you absolutely had to pick one, is this story about Protag vs Antag or Protag vs Self?

Hnnnnn I hate to link this because his web design is terrible (lol) but I've been super into Shawn Coyne's editing techniques lately, and he has a lot of really interesting and useful things to say about genre (he's a pro editor of 20+ years, don't bother following his web flow, it's terrible, just search "Action genre" and some great articles will show up).

https://storygrid.com/

@prodigiumcomic You must have mis-read. This wasn't about shipping (I expect that.) This was people deciding I needed to have random people kissing on my thumbnail to say "there's gay people in this one." Or something. Despite there being no romance.

I still want to know WHICH people should be kissing.

Eh, don't worry about it then. Just say "Oh thanks! I'll take that under consideration" and move on. Not all suggestions are going to be helpful. No point in arguing them.

thanks. I'll take it under consideration.

And in case my sarcasm isn't obvious enough: I don't need unsolicited advice on how to handle unsolicited advice on a matter that is actually quite important yet people are so readily dismissive of fighting against it.

closed Apr 19, '19