Mar 26
9 / 17
Mar 27
3d ago
elibwilde
5d

I have a question. Well, several questions. I need some variety of opinions.

  1. If you're writing a romance from one specific character's perspective, is it weird to suddenly throw in the partner/other person's perception of the event with no warning? I see people do it all the time, but I don't know if it fits my style.

2a. I find myself wanting to write in the love interest's pov to convey some clues, but is that lazy of me? If so, how do I drop more easter eggs that isn't dialogue focused.
2b. On the flip side, I also have hard time writing in an alternative povs and it reading as a completely separate voice from the main character. (This also might be because my personal writing style is prevalent to my own eyes.) What do you all do to maintain distinct voices for each pov that isn't just evident in conversation?
I suppose, I'm wondering anyone would be willing to share an example of two character povs on the same topic/event with wildly different interpretations.

  1. Lastly, I know the character's values, personality, and experience should of course be the guiding foundation for how they navigate the story, but...if these characters have different genders, do I need to heavily consider this when writing? Should there be key gendered things interwoven into the perspective? (I'm not really a big believer in people of different genders thinking in opposite extremes, so I've never thought about it too much until now. I don't want to make gender central, but I'm worried my alternative pov--a guys--is missing something because I personally don't interact with men that much.)

Yeah, that's it. Feel free to share you're own thoughts, questions, and even the story you're writing.

yaziroburrows
5d

I totally get where you are coming from!

I've only recently dabbled in writing romance from multiple POVs, and I would say it depends!

for my current story, switching tones and POVs is a bit easier because the main character is written in first person, and when I throw in the occasional alternate POV, its in third person. This makes the tone shift a lot easier than if they were in the same perspective. Here's an example

Cyran (MC):

I blinked, caught completely off guard by the ridiculousness of it. A pinkie promise? For a moment, I wondered if she was mocking me, if this was some sort of elaborate trick to make me lower my guard. But I was a child, even if I was ten, and she was trying to connect in a way a child would. I slowly extended my hand, closing my eyes so that she wouldn’t see how stupid I found all of this.
“Okay.” I whispered, letting my hand drop, and turning to my mother. Her expression was unreadable, but I could see the way she studied me, searching my face for something. After a long pause, she let out a soft breath and nodded.
“Thank you, your Highness. I will do my best to serve you.”
“Then let us be on our way. Our camp is a little ways from here, but you two can ride in the carriage with me.” Isadora finally stood and I took my mother’s hand as Caspian started to lead us away. I’m sure my mother was hurt and upset that we were leaving before she could finish saying goodbye to my father, but I knew this was for the best.
The sooner we got away the better, and I squeezed her hand in mine.

And then a couple of chapters later, his mother (Linota's) POV:

Linota hugged Cyran tightly before allowing him to leave, asking to play with the girls again. She was reluctant to see him go, but she knew that this was the safest place he had ever been. The tension that had coiled tight in her chest since they arrived had not fully faded, but it had dulled, settling into something quieter. Something manageable.
She watched him bound off, his small figure disappearing down the hall with a bright grin and an energy that was almost infectious. Almost. The weight of the adoption papers still lingered on her fingers, the ink barely dry from where she had signed away something she never thought she would—her son’s name, his place in the world.
Linota exhaled slowly, turning her gaze back to the table where Caspian and Isadora sat, both of them watching her with unreadable expressions. Caspian was leaning back slightly, arms crossed over his chest, while Isadora still held the quill she had given Linota to sign the documents. The reality of it settled in then, heavier than before. Cyran was now a prince. No longer just her son, but something bigger. Something that belonged to the imperial family as much as he did to her.

I don't know if that works for what you're writing or considering, but it works well for me!

skidiggy
5d

Greetings! Regarding writing multiple perspectives, it can definitely work for a romance. If you're concerned about readers getting lost, it helps to give context clues, or guide them from the shift in perspectives through description in the scene. If possible, you can also break chapters up by perspective, if that works better for you.

Alternatively, you can take a more detached approach, simply describing what actually happens in scenes without any internal dialogue/monologue at all. That'd be more of an "all-show, no-tell" method, but it can work.

For me, I prefer choosing a primary character whose perspective is taken per chapter or scene, and give them the major voice. If I need to shift perspective, it's helpful to telegraph the shift, using dialogue, descriptions, or a perspective that's unique to that character.
Example: "A" takes the lead on a chapter, but "B" joins halfway through. All of A's mannerisms, habits, and such are described when they're in the driver's seat, then it swaps over to B's when it's their turn. "A" would never say "XYZ," so it must be "B" who's speaking/thinking.

I hope that helps! :coffee_love:

elibwilde
5d
yaziroburrows

Well hotdog. Thank you!
To be honest, I've never tried third person, but I think I'm make a test chapter and see how I like it. Also, your story sound really interesting, what's the title?

elibwilde
5d
skidiggy

Hmm. You've given me much food for thought. I think I'll definitely split the povs into different chapters. The "all-show, no-tell" is also currently making my wheels spin in a good way, so thank you!

elibwilde
5d

That's the best explanation of third person pov in read in a minute. I think I might have to reference it in a lesson plan, but I digress. Thank you!

Leyelle
5d
1

So I have a romance all from one POV and another from both sides. It's not inherently lazy to switch POVs if you want to show more of that person's life and story, but if you just want to convey clues, there are lots of ways you can do that without switching POVs.

  1. Show what they're thinking by their body language.
  2. Show what they're thinking by clues in their dialog (they can mention something that shows what they're thinking without explicitly saying it, for instance: when my male lead compared his relationship with the female lead to that of his parents, you can see that he's thinking about himself and his female lead in a romantic context rather than a platonic friendship. there are other examples of this I can give if you like.)

For me, it all has to do with getting into the characters mindsets. I often do this by daydreaming from different character's POVs and writing character design sheets to help me understand them better. My male and female lead have distinctly different narration styles, and while the whole story is from her POV, here is an example of a bonus chapter where you get to see his POV of an event you also got to see from her perspective:


This should depend on context. You don't really need to include key gendered things in most contexts, I think, and if you do I think this would be more subtle. It is realistic to weave it in, in my opinion, depending on the context.

An example of this from my writing is that on a first date in my novel "A Dozen Morning Glories" the female lead refuses to drink alcohol because she's nervous about the consequences of getting drunk with a (male) stranger, while when the male lead becomes aware that she's acting oddly (which has nothing to do with him) he's worried the waiters will think he did something to her.

So, there are contexts when gender will have a notable bearing on the plot, but it's not like, every single scene. It more has to do with: when will the cultural perception of your character's gender affect them? only in those contexts do I usually dwell on it.

One other example, is that the male lead of my novel "Damsel in the Red Dress" feels depressed after being paralyzed, not only because he can't move properly anymore, but because he's now dependent on his mother to care for him, while culturally, men are expected to be strong and not need any help from anyone. There's also the fact that his mother and her friends tend to think that most men are useless and a waste of time, and he doesn't want to live up to her negative expectations

cherrystark
4d
1

I am really opinionated about romances with multiple POVs, so please allow the rant.

Romances are supposed to be really structured. It's a big reason why fairytales end with the prince saving the princess and riding off into the sunset, and couples in romcoms always temporarily break up in the second act over a misunderstanding. The predictability makes readers happy. The structure is also we get tired of "will they or won't they" couples. The payoff is the couple getting together. The "happily ever after" is the end of the story unless you're doing a trilogy about the couple's courtship, marriage, and baby. All that being said, if the romance is the A plot - it really needs to be structured. If the romance is the B plot, you have more freedom in the story.

Now for the rant. Multiple POV romances are super popular these days. Readers love experiencing the stories firsthand. The problem that I have is that writing first person POV well is VERY hard to do. I can't count how many stories I've read where all the voices read the same and I have to pause reading to figure out who the heck is narrating. If you're not comfortable writing first person, shifting POVs is much easier in third person IMO. It's like you're a cameraman.

Overall, I think it's more important to write a story that you like than trying to do something clever. If you're only comfortable writing from one perspective, do that. If you only understand a perspective from one gender, write that. Write people over tropes and you'll be just fine.

jwabeasley
4d

Interesting, I've always considered the predictability to be a weakness of the genre. All my favorite romances did something unique and unexpected throughout, and my favorite romance subgenre - swashbucklers - are all over the place on the romance storyline.

cherrystark
3d
jwabeasley

But think about it. You can pretty much always tell when the romance is the A plot versus a B or C plot. If we don't have the second act break up - what's the emotional pay off? Yeah, the characters could talk about their feelings and then the story is done. There'd be no moment where he has to declare is love in front of the crowd or race through the airport to stop her from leaving. It's the climax.

And then in terms of happily ever after - it cements the idea of a romantic fantasy. Yes, realistically we know that relationships take work. But if we knew that the hero lost his love interest because of XYZ issues and the lead couple we spent ten years loving broke up at the end of the series, it'd lose it's magic. That's why (for a lot of stories) the sequel(s) are either about their marriage and subsequent parenthood or it's a time job into the future to follow the romance of the original couple's child.

The thing with romantic structure is that I'm pretty sure most people "know" it's there but they don't know know about it. (Much like mysteries) I noticed with trad published books, especially in the last 10-15 or years, the first book is solid. It's a fun romance that ends with the dreamy potential of a happily ever after. Then we get multiple sequels and our Beauty and the Beast retelling is now about vampires and fae war. And then with indie and web published stuff, the main couple gets together part of the way through the book, so we get side romances and weird plotlines to keep the chapters going.

If it was the writer's plan from day one to write it that way then more power to them. But from an outside reader's perspective, it makes the romance chaotic.

jwabeasley
3d
cherrystark

I don't disagree - and I have no problem with happily ever after - but perhaps you think the stories I'm thinking of aren't Romance as A plot?

I've liked romance stories where the entire plot revolved around whether the protagonist would confess to the other lead, and at the end it didn't even give her answer IIRC.

In the Sea Hawk (1940), the guy likes the girl, but she hates him, about halfway he makes it up with her but she won't admit her feelings, and in the back half she comes around while he's away being a privateer and they don't get to make up until the climax.

In The Princess Bride, they're basically together from the end of Act 1, everything else is obstacles to them staying together.

Or take Clannad, where they're pretty clearly together from the first scene but life keeps on getting in the way.

I guess what's at stake here is that I'd say I'm writing a romance adventure, more or less a serial swashbuckler by plot structure, but I don't see a lot of representation for it (Romance Fantasy was the closest Tapas genre) in webcomics vs the more standard formula stuff. But The romance part is the main story from my perspective.

Maki-08
3d

I would call it jarring. Changing POV suddenly isn’t a matter of style, but of consistency and expectation. When an author signal to their reader that there will only be one POV they are setting an expectation: there will be no other POV in the main story. If you must introduce another POV and it's going to be an exception, I would recommend containing that to a prologue or epilogue. This way the shift will be less jarring. Otherwise, you may need to restructure your story so that the change feels more deliberate.

A). It won’t feel lazy if its planned thoroughly, and if the shift is deliberate and consistent with how you have set up your story. There is more than one way to drop easter eggs. You can use imagery, metaphors, symbolism, irony (verbal or non-verbal), etc.

B). There are several ways to make POVs distinct outside of dialogue. Different characters will have different personalities. This can translate to what your characters focus on, what they choose to describe or ignore and in how much detail, what they remember about a character or an event, how describe that character or event (what language they use), etc.

Not necessarily. Just make sure that the POV is consistent with the POV character’s personality. As a writer, you will need know your character’s philosophical beliefs, wants, needs, goals, motivation. You also need to know why their character is the way that it is, but your audience doesn’t need to be told these explicitly. I find that if an author knows their characters intimately these things find a way to bleed into the writing. If the character read too much alike, ie. the male character reads like the female character, then that’s usual a sign that there is an aspect of the character’s personality that the writer doesn’t know or that their personalities are too similar. This is not necessarily an issue concerning gender differences.

If you want the characters to have gender differences that are more subtle I would start with language. Generally, the language that women use is different from what men use. From experience, I find that women tend to use more colorful language, and men tend to be more. . . brief and prosaic.

cherrystark
3d

So I classify The Princess Bride in the same realm as a classic fairytale style romance. A man conquers his foe and rides off into the sunset with his lady love. Them falling in love in the first act is important to the rest of the story.

Honestly, I'd say look to the structure of the old swashbuckler stories. From where I sit, you're in kind of a rough position in romances because the popular stories focus on tropes and smut over structure. But there's no reason if you have a solid plan in mind, why it wouldn't work