I have a really unhealthy GL relationship in my comic and the fact that it is unhealthy is a massive plot point! Of course it's not dislikeable immediately. So long as you know it's abusive and handle it correctly it's fine. The problem is when a creator adds abusive behaviours into a story and doesn't even realise or acknowledge that it's abusive.
It's basically just bc people who have had bad relationships will be uncomfortable if it's not handled well and it comes across as disrespectful if you treat a bad relationship like it's something wonderful. We like to see people go through relatable experiences but we don't like to see really inaccurate portrayals of those situations. So long as the characters respond to the situation realistically and it's shown what kind of negative effects it has on the characters it's not a problem at all for the story.
heya!! english is not my main language so I apologize for any errors/wrong grammar, hopefully I dont come off as confusing or even condoningaaa ;;
As a person who's pretty naive for a relationship, I can't write romance between characters very well so I try to keep the couples in my story at a bare minimum while I try to research on relationships, unhealthy and healthy ones alike.
Sadly there are a lot of literatures here locally that has questionable relationships, it doesn't help either that most of them are pulled off from sites like Wattpad with user-bases that are inexperienced with these types of relationships. There are publications that feature the MC being kidnapped by some random gang- only for her to love one of her captors. Analyzing the character tropes showed in the tv shows too shows behaviors that are a bit problematic. I guess it's because of gender roles as well? Atleast here in our place a lot of elders say that when someone's giving a girl a lot of attention (be it positive or destructive), it means they like her. I think it's a really harmful way to imprint it on a young person's mind specially. Not to mention people here preach obsessiveness or even support stalking their crush/ex like the others have said.
There are a lot of media here where (typically) the girl falls in love with someone who doesn't treat her any good and/or is.
Personally I have one unhealthy relationship (?) in my story but the only time its romantic and healthy is in AUs. I do read comics with unhealthy relationships but only when it shows psychological or shows it how it really is- dark and undesirable. As for examples, there was a comic I've read a long before because I like the art and all despite it having no plot (like most BL I've read before) One inquired about how they are concerned about uke character's potentially toxic relationship with seme and the creator just replied that seme was literally a golden pack served in a silver platter and all and it just..kind of rubbed a lot of people in the wrong way.
Just shows that is NOT the right way to reply;; I dont mind people consuming those things in media as long as they dont do those things irl. This got long but Im relieved to see this topic is being discussed in a civil manner ;;
The "problem" of my story is that IT HAPPENS that the girl being abused does fall in love with the abuser (who does the same) and of course this trope is pretty bad.....but i don't know, i'm sure there is a way to portraying it realistacally bad but at the same time "possible" or "acceptable" that she falls for her anyway, even though being some kind of abuser.
Also one thing: I recenly had the chance to meet a very nice girl that revealed to me and some friends during a dinner that got into pretty dark themes later, that she was sexually abused by her uncle when she was younger. When we told her "Did you tell that to anyone? Did you get any help?" her answer was:
"No i kept it for myself the whole time. But for it's in the past now. I forgave him"
.....Well cases can be 3 here:
- Maybe the abuses were "lighter" like he didn't heavily abused of her, only touching (thou, it's already a big bad thing)
- She was lying.
- She's an angel.
But this was just an example to say, that it is bad to romanticize abusive relationships of every kind, but if it's true what this girl said to us at that time, i think there are rare and real cases where the victim, okay, doesn't fall in love with the abuser but can "forgive him".
Still sounds weird to me, but i've never been into an abusive relationship (fortunately) so i can't really tell.
The GL comic i've been thinking about lately it has an abusive relationship where both girls falls for each other, BUT ONLY after they go through character development, deep dynamics, a temporarily pardon,and a skip time of 7 years. And even though many people will probably dislike it, i'm still gonna publish it maybe and give a proper warning first, because i'm aware about how much delicately this thing has to be handled or how you handle it badly.
About the girl you mentioned, her response to the situation is actually pretty common. Victims usually don't tell anyone else for a variety of reasons that can span from, or include all of: fear, shame, wanting to protect the abuser, the victim is manipulated, the victim thinks they are at fault, the victim thinks people will think they are overreacting, the victim simply doesn't have the energy and doesn't care about themselves, or the victim doesn't realize it's a toxic situation because they are so used to it that this is their normal.
Forgiving your abuser may sound counterproductive, but it is in fact te most commonly suggested thing by therapists. Not for the sake of the abuser, but because hate is a heavy thing to carry for the victim.
I was put through online sexual abuse and manipulation for 3-4 years of my mid-late teens by a man who was 15 years older than myself. I didn't tell anyone because I blamed myself, I was manipulated by him into thinking it was all okay and that my purpose in life was to fix his shitty life, and I was ashamed of the whole ordeal. After I got out of the situation I still kept quiet about it because I found it embarrassing and thought people would call me an idiot for letting it happen to me.
I still haven't gotten to the point where I can forgive him. I envy those who have.
I can attest to this, and can't emphasize enough how much I agree. Both personally and through the experiences of the women around me. My psychology professor was sexually assaulted by three men. While she told police, she never mentioned it to any of her partners, up until she met her husband. She told us because the end of the year was drawing close, and she wanted to leave us with something to remember about coping mechanisms.
They never found them, and now that so many years have passed, she's forgiven them. I don't think it makes her an angel. I think it makes her stronger, and healthier.
A few years ago a fellow creator told me that they wanted to illustrate how people can "evolve".
I had to explain to them that, in reality, and if they were trying to stay as true to life as possible, that abusers don't "evolve" most of the time. They make only minor, superficial adjustments to sway the PUBLIC eye that they've turned over a new leaf but the abuse usually continues in some way (if not worse, in some cases).
In anything written by fujoshi (and I am going to make the distinction, because to say that all LGBT comics and prose is like this is false), I noted that this kind of abusive relationship is turned way up and, for some reason, people fawn all over it and praise it as good writing when, those of us who were/are in abusive relationships find ourselves cringing at what we're reading/seeing. For some reason, the abuse is immediately identified when we're talking about hetero male on female abuse but not the other way around and not in fujoshi-written content.
Now: don't lie to your audience.
Abuse happens and abusive relationships are apart of life (as shitty as that sounds) but what you are showing the audience is the lessons learned from that abuse and illustrating justice, no matter how subtle.
Also: This is NOT to be confused with the "Belligerent sexual tension" trope where people don't get along with each other at first and parts of the story are dedicated to watching their relationship grow/they discover the potential/they discover they have feelings for each other.
Just because someone is MEAN doesn't necessarily mean they are abusive, per say.
About the visual novel... had the abusive line good end?
I haven't play this novel, but I have liked visual novel "Tsukihime". In that novel you mostly choose the options of the boy's behaviour, who is MC, so player learns his POV. There were cruel things here, including that player had an option to rape some of girl characters. But if they choose this option, good ending have become unreachable (if I remember correctly). I personally see nothing wrong about it, cause it shows bad consequences of such a things.
I haven't read much bad stuff. I'm generally pretty careful when I consume media so at worst I'll accidentally flip through something at the library that's mediocre that I don't take in at all and totally forget about in 2 seconds.
But. I have spent some time trying to understand the Twilight dynamic. I think it's so popular because if someone is otherwise dangerous or evil etc, and they still "love you" it's very endearing. Like it's totally against they're nature, but still you're so special that they'll make you an exception and think you're important over other things. Even more sexy if there's a struggle with their true nature because it means they're really trying.
Course not saying it's good, but that's basically the mentality of people who like it.
You play as the girl and to my knowledge the only way to avoid being caged and drugged is to avoid his storyline. He will cage and drug you no matter what you say or do because he thinks it's for your own good...
I never actually played the game and I'm trying to remember how it ends...but I know in the bad ending if you escape he essentially finds you, recages you, and it alludes to you becoming his sex slave XD So atleast they realize thats the bad ending.
I think in the good ending you have to prove over and over you trust him and want him and stuff before he finally lets you out.
I wonder if romanticized abusive relationships are more prevalent in Asian-produced media like manga and webtoons and those that take after it? As far as comics go. I'm not that aware of the western YA novel scene.
Like the only western comic example I can think of is Joker and Harley Quinn? But as far as I know many of the DC comics never romanticize it and present it as a twisted, bad relationship.
Thoughts?
Ok it's been a while so take this with a grain of salt but the entire point of Amnesia imo when I played was about subverting expectations and nothing being what you imagine (although if you've played enough of these games or are familiar with tropes you see it coming a mile off) and yes it was supposed to be a mess. It wasn't romantasing abuse it was purposefully playing to abusive tropes because it's a messed up game focusing on some really messed up thing in places (one of your love interests has the whole "if you die, I live and if I die, you live".)
The one you're referring to is seemingly the most friendly and sweet, is the crazy protective one. The cold one who doesn't really acknowledge you is actually one of the sweetest gentlest guys. The popular idol guy surrounded by women is lonely and loving has possessive dangerous fans. The slightly scary stalker guy is actually protecting you from danger as much as possible to the point of screwing over the universe and himself. And I can't remember the Shin's plot but he was best boy. (Edit: a bit of thinking and I remember Shin's route is about him as the "bad boy" who is too blunt and has a dad in jail for manslaughter and is suspected of causing the MC's injuries and her amnesia and is actually a sweetheart) And I don't remember if it was the same in the game but in the anime the girl then chooses which one she wants to be her real world with which love interest after going through all the 5 parallel worlds.
TLDR: Amnesia was purposefully subverting peoples outward appearances and was a purposefully messed up game, not romanticizing anything and Shin was best boy.
Mmm I know lots of people see the most famous bits like the cage and hear otome and assume. There's a pretty decent anime adaption, subbed and dubbed, that does a pretty good job with the vibe of it. Otome games are actually more and more getting plots and taking on darker themes, it's quite interesting seeing them evolve from basic bland girls gets guys for reasons I can't figure out to actual stories dealing with some very dark issues at times.
It's pretty prevalent in YA novels, it's like a huge issue too with many popular novels having problematic things
If you want some examples I can message you? I can name specific books and author who's YA novels are like mostly abusive relationships...
The only reason I haven't seen it in western comics is because western comics (not including indie comics) are mostly superheroes, even though I go and search for western comics that are other genre's (like romance) they're not easy to find at least where I live.
I feel we just see it more in Manga and Webtoon because there are way more romance genre comics to look through.
We should be allowed to experiment in fiction because not everything is meant to be educational, or a manual of "how to become a better person". We can't ignore that some people fantasize with abuse (inflict or receive it), it is something that people might like to play with from the safety of a reader point of view.
I think that abuse is totally valid in a plot, what makes no sense is when an author tries too hard to justify the abuse. "Oh, he is not really evil, he has suffered so much" "Wait, but he redeems himself".
being sorry after the abuse doesn't make it less abusive!!! The dominant character never gets consequences for their behavior.
Being apologetic for the abuser is potentially dangerous because it fits the real-life domestic abuse mindset.
@HGohwell Well, that's actually sounds interesting. Now I want to play this game to sort things out by myself.