Romanticizing abusive relationships

I notice when its a hetero couple and its the dude instigating it, it tends to get more flack. Females/lgbt people doing the abuse rarely as much. It's a horrible double standard I see a lot and I also mentioned back in the thread.

Trying to think of some. Maybe Studio Killers Jenny song/music video? When it came out the song itself sounded kinda weird, Cherry being overly obsessive with their friend just hoping she'd dump her boyfriend for her because they're all chads who don't love her and only cherry knows how to treat her right (meanwhile she's stealing shit from jenny). I mean thats incel level territory and then the music video just bumps it up to a 100 making her even more creepily possessive, manipulative, deceitful and disturbing. Its played off as a cute romance story and any comment or review of it just talks about it as "love wins" and other vague positivity

I think it's a matter of missing the mark when attempting to write the "mine" feeling and the respective "he/she/they want all of me to themselves" feeling that many people do find attractive in a partner and relationship, but when going to excess becomes abusive behavior. I think it's a mistake that is more likely to be made by people who have either never experienced an abusive relationship or never seen a loved one get caught up in one. I.e. A lot of young creators fall into this trap, but so do adults that either have escaped this life lesson, or just don't care.

I guess the third option, which I will exclude and put in its own bracket, is when it's an actual fetish. Fetishes are a complicated matter that already involve a lot of shame, so shaming people for having them is counterproductive. I think a better approach to rape and abusive relationships in fetish content is to make sure it's very clear it's exactly that: fetish content. And then you spread the awareness neccessary to keep people from harm. A bit like how the bdsm community is working hard on spreading consent activism and awareness about the practices involved, as well as making it pretty clear where the line goes for real rape and abuse.

But that's not the case with most of these things, the worst case occurs when like you say it's played off as a sign of love. Such things getting stuck in young impressionable readers' minds is no good.

I always chuck this up to young and inexperienced writers that are just writing because they think it's popular and it's going to make them rich...and they're not entirely incorrect, look at the 50 Shades of Stepping on a Puddle with Socks On franchise. In the latter case I chuck it up to terrible writing by someone who probably doesn't have the tools to deal with mental stress or has not experienced a completely healthy relationship or has a very skewed view on what romantic love is. I chuck it up to unresolved TRAUMA, put it that way LMAO.

Anyway, I don't think writing these type of relationships is entirely bad if they are meant to be that way. One example I can think of is Olivia Pope and Fitz Grant from Scandal. The entire fandom is WELL aware of the toxicity of those two and so is the show, the two of them just destroy each other at any chance they get but I think it works like this sadistic, sadomasochist, demented power-struggle tango. The two characters have power but the scales tip every now and then to favor one over the other. When it becomes a problem and icky is when the scales never waver and one character is ALWAYS the one with the shorter stick. One can argue that both are equally bad, yes, but one is good writing about a bad situation, and the other is a fetish of supposed romance and love, which is not good as it becomes this cartoon of something that is not real, and when it is it's not good or healthy. And if it is a fetish it SHOULD state so, you never know what impressionable minds are reading, like children or vanilla soccer moms from Suburbia, USA, know what I mean?

When I see indications of a negative portrayal of relationships that are meant to be romantic I just stop giving those comics my attention, it's just not worth it. At the same time I start to think about HOW to write a good relationship, be it romantic or platonic, to counter all the garbage that's out there, truly. I think the only way to combat this is to ignore and to create something that's good, kind of drowning out the evil noise haha. Not saying every relationship has to be rosy and peachy, but just have WELL WRITTEN relationships between your characters. I think 50 Shades of Soggy French Fries tried to redeem itself by the end by giving the dude (forget his name) some sort of tragic backstory which would have been okay IF Anastasia (how could I EVER forget that ridiculous name) had left the guy, but she DOESN'T and now she looks stupid and this boat has too many holes, we are taking too much water! MAYDAY, MAYDAY, we are sinking!

It all comes down to having a well written relationship, and yeah, I think you got it right, you can't write well when you are a teenager and haven't experienced life and different people outside of your high school and your town and family, or experienced any form of real hardship. There's just not that much stuff to get from that like @LordVincent said, most of them are not experienced enough in life to know how to write compelling characters with human emotions rather than these animal-like actions of possession and control.

Edit: I would like to first say... woops for making this long haha, and second @indagold there are a lot of abusive relationships in bara and yaoi manga, most of the times in yaoi which is mainly written and illustrated by women and it is aimed to women. I find abusive relationships in bara to be more power struggles, like who tops and who bottoms, and one finally giving in to being bottom, but real life doesn't work that way, it's silly... anyway, but yaoi is more like possessiveness and this feeling of powerlessness that is very reminiscent of real life mentally abusive relationships.

Did anyone see that anime Amnesia based off some otome game?

One of the characters literally locks the female MC in a dog cage and drugs her. I was so shocked by this that I looked up the game which is was based off and found out that not only was the the storyline of the character in the game, but he was actually voted the most popular guy from the game that most girls like his storyline the most.

Yeah I don't get it. I personally really can't stand that sort of stuff, because it encourages the abuser to be the way they are, and it prevents the victims from knowing to get out of the relationships.

The Amnesia one is supposed to be fucked up though. It was voted the most popular because it was the most interesting according to its audience.

I don't watch this stuff myself much but I have a younger sister who does. She is fully aware that the behavior is abusive and doesn't find it romantic at all.

Visual novels do this a lot, it's common to have bad ends here and there and some characters with whom you can only get fucked up endings. It's part of the thrill, a bit like watching a horror movie. As long as people know and recognize that it's fucked up, it's not really the issue being discussed here?

I feel the true devil in abusive behavior displayed in fiction is when it's hidden and presented as love. When the intended reaction is "awww she deleted all of his female contacts because she loves him" rather than "oh fuck we're getting a bad end". It's the same thing that happens, but the key difference between romanticized representation vs intended psychological horror is often found in the imagery, context and other writing.

First of all, I apologize because my grammar is not the best and maybe what I write sounds a bit confusing. Apologies in advance.

I think it's a complicated issue, because according to me, the main reason of the romanticization of abusive relationships is the simple fact that they were normalized by society. It's only now that gender theories have become more popular, that people are realizing and have begun to analyze a lot of things that previously thought they were good and normal.

This is a very good thing and I think now the important thing is to create things that visualize the truths we are learning, that show positive relationships where equality prevails. It's our duty to make that difference.

Thank you for creating the post and open the possibility of discussing this topic.

Well I'm pretty degenerate, so I don't particularly mind haha. I'd also hope that people know to distance themselves from stories. But in the land of stories, it seems like line between healthy and abusive is blurred, but maybe that's the reality of romantic relationships for many. I wouldn't know honestly, even fluffy light-hearted romances to me are rather twisted. Also, it may be that for many, the meaning of the word "love," doesn't just come down to what people consider "healthy" nowadays.

For example, I think "healthy" implies valuing your own physical and emotion well-being, but many might see "true love" in the willingness to suffer for the other. Maybe even to the extent of willing to die for your loved one, but overall, romantic relationship often do necessitate some degree of sacrifice for the other, but we'd say only to a certain point or something like that. Or hell, maybe not at all and you should just get out since it really is a matter of just using each other, whether for pleasure or pain. Or maybe romance to someone is eroticism, and taken to an extreme is possessive and abusive, an animalistic desire only held back by social norms. Or for instance, some omegaverse stories play around with the idea of love itself. If we are just animals and love is just a feeling, then what's wrong with treating it as such, determined by biology and what not.

I think if one looks at it more philosophically it might offer more insight, because at least that's what I'm thinking about when I'm writing stories, even the really degenerate ones. I'm usually thinking bout things already in romance, and just taking it to an extreme in order to expose it. It's not really about what I think is the right or healthy way of approaching a relationship, it's about what goes on underneath and peeling off the layers. Though I always try to redeem it in some way, since maybe even in the most looked down upon relationships, there is something beautiful in it.

I dunno, I feel like........ somebody might like the idea of behaviour that in real life would be wrong and harmful, they might find it real steamy or exciting and fun to imagine, and then this disconnect appears between the people who are like "No, I've seen what this looks like in real life and-- it's harmful! It's abuse! Don't encourage this sickening behaviour!!" and the people who are just expressing their fantasies in their stories without realising their slip is showing, so to speak.

There are also people who know the difference, who know what real world abuse looks like and would never condone it, but also boiiiiiiiii this unhealthy power dynamic in a story is really hot for them.... and those tend to be the people who label and tag it as such the best. People who know what dubcon is can write and read dubcon to their heart's content as long as they know and make clear that it's dubcon.

I like Lord Vincent's thoughts on the matter a lot. and I like the idea that "label and tag your dubcon" is a more effective path to push for than "don't write dubcon or else you're corrupting the youth."

For me all is good as long as people are able to separate fantasy from reality. If the line is not so clear it's better to avoid that stuff.

Also I used to read old light novels from my grandma magazines, for females only, and the guys used to be pretty possesive as it shown in some josei manga, specially the old ones. And I am not talking about horror / thriller, just "normal" romance.

I don't think is cool to be seen as an object but there's something cool and romantic when people fight for honour, even if in RL may be seem as pretty useless.

Also when you are a teenager more drama happens, because you are still learning to manage your emotions. For example is not uncommon that your first love ended because of something inmature, like cheating on the other person or shouting them, but you learn from your mistakes and when you are with another person you try to be the best of you. So maybe the first person may think WTF why wasn't that...human being... like that with me?? And maybe that's because we learn from our live experience.

And that's why Leela fell in love with old Fry (Lars) in Futurama OoO

It's just what happens when people who haven't fully matured romantically try to write romantic plots.

There are ways of writing this kind of stuff into a relationship without romanticising it but it's all in your attitude. I've written plenty of unhealthy relationships but bc I'm an adult who has dated as well as been in a serious relationship for some time, I can handle this stuff.

A lot of young writers wanna dive in though - in fact it's normally in the teens that people write this kinda stuff because they're at a weird inbetween age where they're maturing in terms of their interest but they don't yet understand things like adult life, falling in love or anything like that. They're newly interested in relationships but aren't actually having them - they're bound to write them poorly and get over-excited.

It's best to let them know very gently when they're going too far. Don't make them feel like bad people bc they're not at all. They just lack the knowledge and experience necessary. Just let these kinds of writers know that these behaviours are in fact abusive. Chances are they just haven't considered it. Once they start to acknowledge that the relationships is a bad one and start to portray it from that angle a bit more you can say they have grown as a creator.

I don't know if i should be saying this, but i'm planning to do a GL webcomic and their relationship is gonna be PURPOSELY abusive. Is it still dislikable? xD
Of course this plot won't ONLY talk about sexuals abuses all the time, there will be character development of course, genuine interactions, mature thinking and bittersweet stuff (with a right dose of romantic cliches because i still like a few of them xD) don't worry, i'm not promoting myself or defending abusive relationships, just wanted to say that this story is gonna start as an abusive one on purpose (and it won't be random but properly generated from the plot features as well) to translate into something more realistic i hope.

My comic aside, the only abusive relationship comic i've read so far was Killing Stalking and more than dislike it or blame it for the content i was pretty much confused like "....So there is even a plot here?" i dunno, i liked the art so far but about the overall plot i couldn't get the point xD (Maybe because abusive relationships story doesn't even one in the first place, and they're just bad? Not a statement, i'm currently asking haha)

I'm not as informed as you guys are about the topic, and since i have to write a comic on it (maybe without turning it to be real shit) i'd like to be delighted on this and gather more of your opinios, but i'll just open another slightly different topic from this when the time will come

I have a really unhealthy GL relationship in my comic and the fact that it is unhealthy is a massive plot point! Of course it's not dislikeable immediately. So long as you know it's abusive and handle it correctly it's fine. The problem is when a creator adds abusive behaviours into a story and doesn't even realise or acknowledge that it's abusive.
It's basically just bc people who have had bad relationships will be uncomfortable if it's not handled well and it comes across as disrespectful if you treat a bad relationship like it's something wonderful. We like to see people go through relatable experiences but we don't like to see really inaccurate portrayals of those situations. So long as the characters respond to the situation realistically and it's shown what kind of negative effects it has on the characters it's not a problem at all for the story.

heya!! english is not my main language so I apologize for any errors/wrong grammar, hopefully I dont come off as confusing or even condoningaaa ;;

As a person who's pretty naive for a relationship, I can't write romance between characters very well so I try to keep the couples in my story at a bare minimum while I try to research on relationships, unhealthy and healthy ones alike.

Sadly there are a lot of literatures here locally that has questionable relationships, it doesn't help either that most of them are pulled off from sites like Wattpad with user-bases that are inexperienced with these types of relationships. There are publications that feature the MC being kidnapped by some random gang- only for her to love one of her captors. Analyzing the character tropes showed in the tv shows too shows behaviors that are a bit problematic. I guess it's because of gender roles as well? Atleast here in our place a lot of elders say that when someone's giving a girl a lot of attention (be it positive or destructive), it means they like her. I think it's a really harmful way to imprint it on a young person's mind specially. Not to mention people here preach obsessiveness or even support stalking their crush/ex like the others have said.

There are a lot of media here where (typically) the girl falls in love with someone who doesn't treat her any good and/or is.

Personally I have one unhealthy relationship (?) in my story but the only time its romantic and healthy is in AUs. I do read comics with unhealthy relationships but only when it shows psychological or shows it how it really is- dark and undesirable. As for examples, there was a comic I've read a long before because I like the art and all despite it having no plot (like most BL I've read before) One inquired about how they are concerned about uke character's potentially toxic relationship with seme and the creator just replied that seme was literally a golden pack served in a silver platter and all and it just..kind of rubbed a lot of people in the wrong way.

Just shows that is NOT the right way to reply;; I dont mind people consuming those things in media as long as they dont do those things irl. This got long but Im relieved to see this topic is being discussed in a civil manner ;;

Also one thing: I recenly had the chance to meet a very nice girl that revealed to me and some friends during a dinner that got into pretty dark themes later, that she was sexually abused by her uncle when she was younger. When we told her "Did you tell that to anyone? Did you get any help?" her answer was:
"No i kept it for myself the whole time. But for it's in the past now. I forgave him"
.....Well cases can be 3 here:

• Maybe the abuses were "lighter" like he didn't heavily abused of her, only touching (thou, it's already a big bad thing)
• She was lying.
• She's an angel.

But this was just an example to say, that it is bad to romanticize abusive relationships of every kind, but if it's true what this girl said to us at that time, i think there are rare and real cases where the victim, okay, doesn't fall in love with the abuser but can "forgive him".
Still sounds weird to me, but i've never been into an abusive relationship (fortunately) so i can't really tell.

The GL comic i've been thinking about lately it has an abusive relationship where both girls falls for each other, BUT ONLY after they go through character development, deep dynamics, a temporarily pardon,and a skip time of 7 years. And even though many people will probably dislike it, i'm still gonna publish it maybe and give a proper warning first, because i'm aware about how much delicately this thing has to be handled or how you handle it badly.

About the girl you mentioned, her response to the situation is actually pretty common. Victims usually don't tell anyone else for a variety of reasons that can span from, or include all of: fear, shame, wanting to protect the abuser, the victim is manipulated, the victim thinks they are at fault, the victim thinks people will think they are overreacting, the victim simply doesn't have the energy and doesn't care about themselves, or the victim doesn't realize it's a toxic situation because they are so used to it that this is their normal.

Forgiving your abuser may sound counterproductive, but it is in fact te most commonly suggested thing by therapists. Not for the sake of the abuser, but because hate is a heavy thing to carry for the victim.

I was put through online sexual abuse and manipulation for 3-4 years of my mid-late teens by a man who was 15 years older than myself. I didn't tell anyone because I blamed myself, I was manipulated by him into thinking it was all okay and that my purpose in life was to fix his shitty life, and I was ashamed of the whole ordeal. After I got out of the situation I still kept quiet about it because I found it embarrassing and thought people would call me an idiot for letting it happen to me.

I still haven't gotten to the point where I can forgive him. I envy those who have.