Share your comic + how to improve someone else's comic

[joannekwan]

I will not police what thread people should make and should not. Just a suggestion, but you can change the title into "Share your comic + Critique the comic above you."

People communicate poorly and might misread intention in written medium, as there is no vocal and visual clues (happened to me). The word "What you DIDN'T like" might come too strongly and read more negatively to them.

This!
I've gone and changed your topic name @thecrystalrook and I suggest you clarify this is a thread for critiques and constructive criticism in your opening post as well.

The initial wording could too easily cause misunderstandings and invite trolls. You already had to clarify your intention to others so it's best if you edit your first post with those clarifications. Quite often people will read the first post and jump to reply without reading any other responses.

[FafasMcMelt]

i stand corrected, big brother changed it for you

[vothnthorvaldson]

Thanks!
Regarding anatomy, yep, I still have work I'm starting from nothing (those are the first humans I ever drew seriously) and I'm learning as I draw, not much time to do anatomy studies unfortunately... I should try to find time...
The comment on pacing is super interesting to me. I was a bit aware there MAY be an issue but no one ever said anything so I wasn't sure if I was imagining it or not. That's exactly why these threads are useful whether some like it or not! It is a voluntary thing to give a non-linear and somewhat random structure to my comic, but it should not be difficult to follow, so this is a very good info to get, that it is indeed difficult to follow. I think it gets worse in later chapters too, so certainly something I have to work on, Thanks again.

Now Runner. The things I liked less are rather at the beginning, so I suppose it's less relevant but I'll still tell you.
First, I feel you need a page or at least a panel before the very first panel. Maybe an environment/exposition panel. I was surprised it was starting so abruptly with a relatively small panel with text, so I scrolled up trying to find the first page before realizing that was it. It is understandable, but a bit abrupt.
Also, I tend to really not like action panels with completely empty backgrounds. I know it is to keep the focus on the character but I feel it looks unfinished. Just a shadow or a blurry simple environmental object would be enough. But, I saw you started changing that later on so maybe not an issue at all.

Last things that seems to remain, but I guess it is an artistic choice so... the 3/4 faces with the face drawn entirely like if it was front facing (or if it was almost front facing) are a bit disturbing to me. It's super common in comics - especially manga- so maybe not an issue for most but as the topic is what I don't like.. I don't like that

I very much enjoyed the aggressive fauna. I was super surprised by the land bobbit because I have a land bobbit too. The ultimate animal horror as far as I'm concerned

[vothnthorvaldson]

But now it looks like it's any critique. Which mean again, people will be shy, as usual.. And not say anything negative. If they are not asked SPECIFICALLY people won't give negative comments. Which is understandable, so that is it exactly the point of such threads.

I got the majority of the useful critique I ever got from such threads. It's a shame to change them into another thread where people will be too shy to say anything.
No one forces people to post! It is not 'share a random comic and complain about it', it is 'share YOUR comic'.

Maybe a reminder to post only if we are sure to be ready to hear anything, but why making it another 'any type of critique' thread when all the point of the thread is to encourage people to say what they are usually unable to say because they don't know if it is appropriate?

edit: with the new title I would not even have clicked on it. And I would have missed an interesting comment that will help me improve my comic. So disappointing.

[joannekwan]

It's up to @thecrystalrook to decide what to do with their topic.

They can certainly add this part to their opening post.

Maybe a reminder to post only if we are sure to be ready to hear anything, but why making it another 'any type of critique' thread when all the point of the thread is to encourage people to say what they are usually unable to say because they don't know if it is appropriate?

I just went with diamondpowder's title suggestion of "Share your comic + Critique the comic above you" for damage control because the topic was flagged when I logged on. And I see someone else has changed it.
Titles can only impart so much information.

[FafasMcMelt]

Come on guys, that's common sense!
Who would post their stuff to recieve negative criticism if they're not open to it?

Honestly this is the first time I see a thread like this, and this is useful feedback. It was useful to me, and to everyone who posted by the looks of it.

[vothnthorvaldson]

I understand your difficult position; but it is extremely sad that you have to do damage control because people flag topics just because if they don't want to participate in it, the topics should not exist to begin with.
There has been no issues between people actually posting their comics on the thread, everything is going alright, we already got interesting comments.

I'd like the flaggers to accept that everyone does not function the same way. Please let people who like this kind of thread interact and just don't participate.

edit: new title (how to improve...) is a great compromise in my opinion! Good!

[joannekwan]

I agree, I just think OP should have been much clearer from the get-go to avoid such problems.
I saw the flag, agreed that the title could be interpreted in the wrong way, read through the responses, and quickly picked something.

And yep, the new title works for me. Thank you to whoever changed it while I was busy!

[DiegoPalacios]

Just reading the headlines is a common shortcut in the modern human's mind.....

That's why i try to make my threads/posts clear to avoid such confusions......

Anyway, constructive criticism is always a good way to improve, so this thread seems to be a good idea.
Glad they chose a clearer name for this topic.

[jcmraz]

I agree on the first page. Initially there wasn't even text lol That was me going back to try and on ramp readers better with what I already had about a year later xD Initially it was supposed to be a silent sort of propaganda reel designed in a way to give the impression but vague enough for people to draw their own conclusions as well. The text helps but it's definitely still not perfect I also agree with the action scenes to an extent. There should have at least been more speed lines or something to give depth rather than just leaving it blank. It's something I keep working on improving at with backgrounds in general. Chapter 1 is a real testing ground for me in that and is forcing me to do better, especially with some pages that haven't released yet.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 3/4 face drawn like it was front facing. I looked through and I can't really find an instance of that at all. The face is divided into planes and my ability to do so wasn't as good as it is in later pages but I either don't see where I'm drawing a face at a different angle as though it's straight on or I don't understand what you're saying when you say that. Could you elaborate?

And yeah that was kind of the reason for the land bobbit lol Hoping to improve my monster design in the future too but that's still a weak point of mine.

[vothnthorvaldson]

So The Purple Ribbon!

(I will answer the way the topic was going when you posted your comic. Which mean, what I don't like personally. I am not qualified to tell you how to improve it )

First problem is an artistic choice I don't like in any comic: I really dislike scroll format. Nothing to do with your comic.

A more specific issue I had is Abirami. Although there is nothing wrong with him per se, I find his looks very out of place. Not actually his features, but the way he is drawn. Elissa is drawn in a style that is more personal in my opinion, and when Abirami arrives, I see an average manga guy arrives, almost like a character drawn by someone else, and less personal, more basic. The very modern basic glasses do not help.
I understand he is a merchant and maybe not from around, so he may have to look different, but in my opinion he looks different stylistically, not ethnically.
This being said, I forgot about it quick and it is a bit nitpicking because I had to find something to say.

Because otherwise I love the story so far. There are a lot of my favorite themes. I mean, I am writing a family drama about merchants traveling to buy fabrics, in a setting with Phoenician and Roman (between others...) influences, so... yep, just my cup of tea. I love the colours too. I subscribed

[vothnthorvaldson]

The girl's face in the bottom is the clearest example I could find. The one on the top has it a little bit too (I feel the eye is too close to the ear), but I would not have noticed if there were not the bottom one. I guess the bottom one is on purpose as it looks like unrealistic features for a humorous effect. I don't know if it's actually a problem. I have poor suspension of disbelief and dislikes unrealistic features coming randomly (chibis too..) so it may just be me.

[jcmraz]

Ahhh that lol I try to use that incredibly seldomly xD Honestly I don't like literally any of the faces on that particular page haha but I see what you mean now I don't plan to use that again honestly. It's kind of a cheap way to evoke an emotion imo.

[migxmeg]

Going to do another couple of feedbacks because I want to comment too on the subject but also "rerail" the thread a bit .

I can't remember the exact title before but I don't think I would click/participate with the current topic title, even after the adjustment/compromise. If it wasn't clear from the title that sharing what you didn't like was only for creators that opted in for this feedback then I understand completely. And I guess I get it if this forum isn't the right place for blunt negative feedback - I treasure the supportive/positive community and it must be extra work for mods if topics get ugly or out of hand... Did a similar thread get nasty in the past? Everyone has been quite respectful here.

I spend so much time and energy every week working on things that I think need improvement. In a context where the point is to freely discuss negatives, the absence of comments about the things I thought were problems in favor of unexpected weak points or issues that may be more efficient to focus on is pure gold to me. And if there's no expectation that feedback needs to be balanced or helpful it can help lower the bar to giving it, which is great when actively solicited. In the wild, readers just move on at best and it's really hard to be objective about what to work on or understand if the story is coming across as intended.

Anyway!

@jcmraz

Oh wow it was fun to go back to the beginning of Runner! I know Elliot and Atty now, but I remember whenever I was first reading for the redraw and it struck me again that it was hard for me to connect with them early in the story in part because they don't get names until they fight the bobbit, so you're relying on your world building (which luckily is very interesting ) until we got to know them better. Using names early and (almost unnaturally) often is something that helps me connect much better with characters so I can think of them as someone I'm close to and going to care about and avoid the "did I miss this person's name or something" reread.

The other one that stands out to me is that bobbit fight was missing a sense of menace/high stakes that would have made it more exciting. Might be that the initial panels where it appeared were small/zoomed out and that the colors are very harmonious throughout the sequence so I don't feel uncomfortable or freaked out as I would like to. On Chapter 0 page 15 - second panel I got more of the feeling that I wanted that it was scary and dangerous.

@thecrystalrook

I don't read enough action comics so it'll be hard to make this super helpful, but I have trouble following the flow - more trouble at the beginning and way less at the end, looks like you've improved on this dramatically! I think sequences where the camera angle was switching around but camera distance stayed mostly the same lost me the most but in general I felt like the camera was jumping around too quickly for me to keep up without some mental effort. There were parts where that felt more intentional and made sense and parts where I just felt a bit confused. Later in the comic you used the varying distance really well to get more descriptive vs. emotional panels and I appreciated the sequences where you kept it steady for a couple panels for some moment-to-moment goodness and to pace out the action a bit. Also that one where the pirate is coming straight at you is a beauty .

@vothnthorvaldson Thank you so very much for the feedback!! I found your thoughts on Abi particularly interesting because whenever I torture myself by going back to look at our first episodes he's the one that really makes me go uuuuuugh . Sounds like your comic is equally up my alley... I can't wait to read it .

[jcmraz]

It's so interesting to hear your take going back in relation to your first read! Agreed on everything there. I've considered more than once going back and revising Chapter 0 to be shorter, clearer, and to have a better on ramp into the world as well as aspects of the fights scene that, as you said, needed more menace. There was a lot of trial by fire in that chapter and I definitely jumped into it before I was ready but that's how we learn lol I'm glad my learning process didn't turn everyone away! haha Thanks for giving your thoughts here!

[thecrystalrook]

Thank you so much, I'm glad to hear readers think there are improvements as time goes on!

For yours, I think most of what I can comment on is on some of the artwork. You do a fantastic job with faces and hair, but body details seem to be a bit lacking. Sometimes characters look a little wobbly or flat. I have the same problem too, so that might be the reason why I picked up on it. One other thing is that the conversation flow seems a bit slow. I like that it gives time to show a character's personality, but it feels things drag a bit early on. Though I did get quite a laugh out of the "maybe he will" bit

[migxmeg]

Thank you so very much for the feedback!! I've wondered if our story set-up was a bit... extended. It's really hard to get a grasp on one's own pacing. Do you mind letting me know the rough range of chapters you checked out?

[thecrystalrook]

Yup of course, I got to the end of episode 8 so far

[migxmeg]

Awesome!! That'll be helpful to know when I do a read-through with feedback in mind. Thanks again !

[thecrystalrook]

No problem! I am planning to read through the end, enjoying the humor so far