Should I Even Bother Anymore as an Artist? (Drawing Rant)

[Aspie_Gamer]

Life of an Aspie creator here.

By now I don't think there's a single regular here who doesn't know me. Anyway, having just finished the latest chapter of my comic along with coinciding with getting a non artistic job that I'm not only going to love, but also a job that I'm going to make lots of money at, I've been reflecting not only on Chapter 5 of LoaA, but also the value the comic as a whole gives people. Writing wise, I think I'm doing well in that regard, but artistic wise...ehhh no. Not so much. And I know, I'm the guy who rattles on about how good writing can hold up bad art, but not vice versa and while I still believe in that for some comics, I'm not so sure that rings true anymore for LoaA. Sure, I have over 150 subs now and I have plenty of subs who see value in a unique character like the main lead Susan Graham who like me has Asperger's Syndrome, but some of those same subs will also be telling me over and over to "work on anatomy" or "work on perspective".

I've even had people critique my coloring on occasion that I started doing with Chapter 5.

If you know me, then you know that I've been stubborn as hell for the longest time about my art having previously been so adamant that I don't need crazy good art skills to have a good comic, but even with the improvements that I've been trying to implement with the latest chapter such as the aforementioned use of color instead of tones or using and learning from ref materials, I still find myself getting those same critiques over and over and over again. To put it another way, it still feels to me like no matter how hard I push myself to stick to a schedule or no matter how much I force myself to draw on days when I plain don't feel like it, my fellow creators on this site are kicking my ass in both views, feedback, and of course, subs.

And of course, its always because in most cases, their art is better that mine in some way. Better anatomy. Better colors. Hell, even better overall composition if you want to get technical.

I'd be lying if I said that I haven't made any progress since starting LoaA back in the summer of 2015 art wise, but again, no matter how much effort I put into my craft especially in the last few months alone, someone's making bigger strides than me as though it were magic even if they are on a similar skill level and I know I shouldn't be comparing myself to others, but I know deep down that sparing myself from the truth has only made things worse for me in the past and with how much I've had to struggle before to get people to give a damn about my comic compared to pretty much everyone here at least art wise, I don't think its wise anymore metaphorically speaking to keep putting a Band-Aid over a problem where that sort of solution is only temporary at best.

Combined with training at my new job where the managers were talking about how to bring the most value to the store (i.e excellent service every time), what prompted me to make this thread was a rude comment I received from an anon earlier today who basically laid into me as a creator and they ended their vitriolic spiel with something along the lines of "why are you even bothering making a comic in the first place?" and in addition to upsetting me, it put me off of drawing for the evening of which I had previous plans for.

However, since I'm going to be busy with my new job soon anyway, it got me thinking. Realistically, how am I going to have enough time to draw not just new comic pages, but also to practice my artistic skill which much to my chagrin isn't really going in the direction I wish it would've gone as somebody who's been drawing almost his entire life? When I get home from work, I think like most people, I don't want to be reminded of work which is what drawing this latest chapter of Life of an Aspie honestly felt like at times as I hustle and bustled making sure new pages came out on time and were even drawn well ahead (for the most part) of when they were scheduled to be published. I love my subs don't get me wrong, but again, with all the adversity I've faced, it feels more like an uphill battle at this point to bust my butt, but still be stuck in the mud compared to my peers who are pretty much running circles around me art wise.

Since I'm going to making good money at my new job, I'm thinking about doing what some creators do and find a professional grade artist and have them draw LoaA from now on so that I can focus more on the writing which seems to be more of my calling anyway as a content creator. Now this won't be for a while yet since I want to settle into my new job first and build up a substantial amount of money first to handle all my needs as I gradually work towards getting my own place. Once all that's accounted for, then I should be able to pay a top quality artist a negotiable rate. In the meantime though, I'm debating whether to put LoaA on hiatus for now and keep it going as a novelization. (which would be for the Tapas app btw) or if I should stick it out a while longer as an artist until I can start paying someone ten times better than me to draw it from scratch. Thoughts?

[KoreanTacos]

I don't mean to sound rude when I suggest this, but perhaps a light novel would be a better option. It wouldn't require heavy art, and you can produce more if writing is your strongest point. Also it would be quicker to finish a chapter of a light novel than it would a graphic novel

[GesuGesu]

I would worry about how much you expect to pay a "top quality artist" for drawing LoaA for you. Most reasonable rates for an amateur artist online is $20-75 for a single full colour piece from what I know so far (This price range doesn't apply to everyone. Some artists I follow charge beyond $200 for single coloured pieces). Technically, each panel in a comic is its own individual picture. Assuming your average comic page has 6 panels, you're likely going to pay the amount of $20 x six panels, which is $120 for a single page done in full colour

If you don't have this kind of budget in mind, you have to think of how to negotiate with an artist for say, asking for a batch order discount, or some kind of deal/contract for your comic project. You can even decide to go for a black and white comic again. I think most self-appreciating artists wouldn't drop below $50 a page.

I also think that KoreanTaco's suggestion to write a light novel would be a better option. You clearly do have a way with words. If you're still adamant on integrating some sort of visuals for a your light novel, then it's easier to just pay for someone to draw a novel cover, concept art, and maybe an illustration of one of your written scenes once in a while. That way, you can stay within your means.

[zetina]

"I got critique and I improved a little but I still get critique!" You can't really expect to one day just be done and have enough improving. It never ends... So if you don't actually enjoy drawing and improving, then, yeah, write it as a novel. Then you can be evaluated based purely on the writing. Dunno about what you should do specifically as far as hiatus or no goes but... I don't think you can just submit a novel to Tapas app on your own like you would a comic?

[JKNNKL]

I'm really really not meaning to be rude in any way at all, aspiegamer, but once I saw the forum title I sorta guessed it was you already? idk it doesn't seem very worth it to keep doing something if it causes you so much frustration that you feel these feelings recurringly. I think your comic premise is pretty unique and you seem passionate enough about it to be able to put it into a book and you seem to enjoy writing more, so why not? Also, you don't have to give up on the idea of a comic altogether because many novels have been adapted into comics after gaining enough attention; if you succeed with a novel, people will be asking your permission to adapt it into a comic! But basically my motto in life is if you don't enjoy doing it and don't forsee urself enjoying it in the near future, don't do it, cuz life is about enjoying urself! :DDD

[Emma]

Okay, let me just get this out of the way: That anon comment was unnecessarily rude and super uncalled for.
Second, as Kimoisempai said, commissioning artists can be super expensive.
Third, I don't think it's bad at all that you have a lot of improving to do. Heck, we all do. Even those with 10k+ subs have things they can improve on. But that doesn't mean that we can't get better. And with your comic, it's actually quite visible to see the improvements, especially once you added colours.

Now, I'm super bad at writing forum posts, but I just want you to know that you shouldn't give up. We all improve at different paces, and as you can see on your own sub count, there are people that want to read your comic no matter what the art looks like. And I personally think that the number of people who care about your comic matters more than the amount of people who are just... subbed, you know?
And please, don't let constructive criticism (like "you could maybe work on your colouring, anatomy, etc.") let you down. As long as it's not ACTUAL HATE (like the anon comment), they just want the best for you and your comic.

To build on your metaphor, one day, you'll get out of the mud you're stuck in. We're all super self-critical, so while you won't personally feel it, other people might see it. But at the end of the day, it's your decision. I just personally think that if you want to make a comic, you should make a comic, no matter what people say about it.

[hushicho]

If you enjoy it, or even just if you get something out of it, it's worth continuing on. We all have to continue developing our styles and our techniques all our lives. We never really stop learning.

I don't think I could ever stop drawing, at least not willingly! But it's something that I feel I literally need, in order to live. If it's not, then you have to make that decision, and it's only for you to make.

There's also nothing wrong with not wanting critique. If you seek it out, you'll have to expect to get it. But if you don't want it, and make it clear that you don't, then there's nothing wrong with that. People aren't entitled to give you unsolicited critique and act like you have to accept it or find it useful at all.

But as @EmmaItoh said...yeah, comments -- especially anonymous ones -- can sometimes be rude and obnoxious, or even just insensitive and tone-deaf. And we can get dozens of good ones and ones we love, ones that we are living for, and get one rude little garbage comment, and that's the one we'll dwell on. It sucks.

You have plenty of energy in you for storytelling. You're a good, communicative voice in creative storytelling. But it has to be your choice to do that or not. No one else's praise or condemnation deserves the power to decide it for you. Whatever you choose, that is for you to say.

[nixxusnibelheim]

"And of course, its always because in most cases, their art is better that mine in some way."
It isn't about them, it's about you and your work.

Based only from your post, it seems to me that you have a lot of expectation from the feedback you should have, the quality of your work etc. (And that's the wrong way of looking at it. Just enjoy yourself !)
Making a comic isn't just about having a story and slapping whatever art on it.
Well...you can if you are not serious about it and give a little care, everyone can make it.

Like your job, you have to ask yourself "how to bring the most value to your work/comic ?"
-Like you said you can focus on writing your story and hired someone.
-Or if you are willing, making time for your art, sharping your tools, improving your range of actions, learning knowledge that seems out of reach, I'm talking years here.

I don't know how many years since you start drawing but don't be eager to make comic. Focus on improving your work (art, writing...) atleast for a few years.
It's not because someone hustle that the work is great and up to a good standard. It takes years of sacrifice, effort and self-analysis. You have to respect the grind and enjoy every step of it, don't rush.
Keep getting better ! <3

[kyupol]

Keep on going and going and going like an Energizer bunny ^^

Who cares what others think. Don't let it affect you. I've got pretty mean comments in the past as well... and even threats to shoot me in the face then slit my throat and cast me into hellfire... and I can just laugh at it all.

Like water on a duck's back, friend... all I can say.

[lunaartemisasama]

I don't know what art means to you, But I think you should do it as long as it makes you happy. You shouldn't feel bad about the comments that tell you that you should work more, because that means they have expectations from you, feel worried when nobody tells you anything.

Some people may learn faster than some others, everybody is different. For example I have been trying to improve my drawing skills since probably 10 years ago lol, and I started to get interested in it after I finished college... but I just don't have the patience to work on it everyday, but I still practice from time to time and it feels good to see that you are improving even if it's a little.

A lot of people work and do comics as a hobby so maybe you can just make a new schedule?
In the end, I think you should do what you feel like.

BTW congrats on having a job with good payment.

[Devika]

My two cents:

You have worked valiantly on your comic for almost two years now, you're on your fifth chapter now. That's seriously impressive! (I haven't even drawn one page yet and I'm still posting here haha) But considering your earlier posts, it seems that you have gotten stuck in certain thought patterns which you probably won't get out of unless you take a solid break and focus on something else entirely for a while - your new job is a great chance! (Congrats on that too!)

I've been there before, stuck in negative thoughts, and what helped me get out of them was reevaluating my situation and pull through some huge changes. So yes, my suggestion is a hiatus, to see how it feels. Do you still feel the urge to draw at all? Do you feel the urge to tell this story, maybe even without drawing? Or do you feel relief? Once you get some distance, you can reevaluate this whole thing from a fresh perspective. If you do decide to come back, your fans will still be there, and you'll have the energy and motivation needed to do your best! And if you decide to ditch it all because that's what makes you happy, then that's just fine too, as would a (light) novel version be.

Oh and don't get into the sunk cost fallacy - that you have invested time in the story doesn't mean that you need to push on, especially not at the cost of your mental health.

Hope this helps!

[spadesart]

on the topic of art improvement, it's not going to be a quick transition. it's something you have to work on and you have to want to work and improve on it. otherwise it's going to feel like it's killing you slowly. i've tried forcing myself to improve faster when i get into that Art Jealousy with other artists and it always falls flat. and everyone's going to improve at different speeds, some people do it faster and for others it's a slow journey.

[mintycanoodles]

no one's gonna motivate you for you m'dude. you either keep drawing or you don't, it's up to you.

[Tanisha]

If you're feeling this way I think it might be best for you to step back for a bit and reevaluate some things. It took me some time until I actually started posting comics properly and I envy you for getting that many chapters done already! I'd be finished with a whole volume if I were that fast! xD It's all up to you in the end though. You can't expect to show improvement to people after such a short time.

[Michelle]

First off, congrats on a new job that you're happy about! I think a change of pace could prove to be a really great motivator, and might help you see your comic in a different light. Also, it's absolutely possible to do a comic and work a full-time job-- some people work TWO jobs and do comics, some people work two jobs+make a comic+have a family to take care of. It's absolutely do-able, if you want to.
If doing regular comic updates alongside your day job doesn't sound like fun, there's no shame in doing it only when you feel like it. People assign way too much inferiority to hobbies, but really some things are better left as fun side projects. I do lots of creative stuff on the side just for fun, doesn't mean I'm bad at them.

Regarding critique, there's never gonna be a point where you're not gonna have things to fix. I agree that it's iffy when people offer critique you didn't ask for, but think of it this way: if your subs are critiquing you, it's because they like your work and want to see it get better. So while it might be a little frustrating, it comes with good intentions. I've had readers point out errors before, and my first reaction is usually "Ugh, stupid Michelle", but I also think "Huh, someone cared enough to point out a mistake cause they want my comic to look good!"
If you're really bent on improving, I would suggest you welcome those critiques in your description. Something like "Hey, I'm trying to improve my art so any thoughtful critiques are appreciated!" might change how you perceive people giving their 2 cents.

As for people messaging you basically shouting "HEY STOP MAKING COMICS", they're not worth the time it takes to read the message. :u That's not to say you should ignore critiques that point out a lot of flaws, but knowing how to differentiate critiques from outright jackassery is important.

I don't know how long you've been doing comics specifically, but if you've been working on LoA from 2015-2017... that's still not a huge amount of time in the grand scheme of things. I started publishing Centralia around the same time, but I had done other comics for years before then. Aaand... they weren't very good. It may be that LoA is a stepping-stone to something more solid down the line, but demanding that this one project be perfect will only lead to frustration.

If doing artwork is more frustration than joy, and you can't see yourself wanting to buckle down and learn the craft, it's ok to hire out an artist. Drawing IS frustrating, it's TOTALLY an uphill battle, and you're gonna be making drawing mistakes until you die. At the end of the day, I'd still rather draw because I hate writing. :u If writing is an easier form of communication for you, embrace that! It might be that a comic like LoA will thrive much better when working as a team. Not to mention, if your job takes a lot of your time, divvying up the workload makes sense.

[shazzbaa]

When I was making my comics alongside a dayjob, it often felt like I was leaving one job to begin another, like much of my "time off" was still spent working. Your comic will feel like a job sometimes; I think that's true for most folks. Is that worth it to you, or not?

As for the hiatus vs keep-drawing-for-now question -- I think I'd definitely advocate the hiatus, between the two. For one thing, in my experience, that process of getting settled enough to hire an artist and finding a good artist and working out the contract always takes longer than you think it will, and if you have the mindset of "I'm only drawing it until I get an artist to take over" then when that time inevitably stretches longer, it will feel like more and more of an unfair chore that you're STILL drawing this dang thing.

Secondly, having myself ended one comic and taken a long hiatus on another, I've found stepping away can help answer that question with much more certainty. When I ended TNH, I felt relieved. I had enjoyed it, but I really didn't have the time and mental energy to do it anymore, and stepping away felt like an obligation lifted. When I put Runewriters on indefinite hiatus, I missed it. I had all this free time and I was unhappy. I could tell that coming back to it as soon as I could was right for me.

And if you decide you'd rather reimagine the whole thing as a novel, that's cool too, but I think you really do have to go all the way. A story that starts as a comic but turns into a novel half-way through will make nobody happy!

[Mari]

The most important thing is to ask yourself do you enjoy drawing/making art? A hobby you love is always worth pursuing, even during the times you feel like you hate it, but if you view art as more to something to get you to your end goal (a graphic novel), maybe it'd be better to pursue writing instead, and either scrap the art part or have someone else do that for you. If you don't enjoy doing your art it will show, and it's just an unnecessary stress on you. After all, it's not as if though your parents are yelling at you not to quit the piano, this is really just all about how you feel about this particular hobby. With the first draft of my main comic(that is, not a 10 page short story) I actually ended up writing a light novel and quitting the comic altogether for years. It was also beneficial, because it helped me see how dumb some of my storylines were without my then sub-par art. I honestly don't think anyone can help you decide on this, it's just up to how you feel. And it's not like saying "hey I'm quitting this now" is like you burning a bridge, it's more like you're closing a door. You can still open that door anytime you want. The important thing is to be happy with whatever you end up doing.

[lunchtiiime12]

Advice on contracting:

1. Focus on your job, it's infinitely more important than this. Get good at it. If, after you are good at it and have some stability (which almost nobody has) you find yourself still with the urge to create comics, then save money for the eventual contracted artist you will want to find (if that's more important to you, than, say, a new car.)

2. Expect to pay between 80-150 per page if you want the artist to stick around. Get ready to get disappointed over and over and over again with excuses such as "I have other clients", "Sorry, exam this week", or whatever else. Being a boss to an artist is complicated. Contracts are complicated. Trust is complicated. I had 10 pages drawn and completed (at $100/page) before the artist got too busy with school, and I had to drop every one of them, find a new artist, and start over. I pay the new artist enough for it to be a full time job, we have spoken every single day via chat since I hired him, and we are still going strong together. Since you have the writing completed already, all you'll have to do is say "hey, expert artist that I pay and trust and love, redraw this page in your style," then do it every day/week or whatever you can afford until they are all redrawn.

3. Grind it until you want to die, you look at your $5000-$10000 loss report, and wonder if it will ever be worth it or noticed by anyone, or of you should have bought that car in the first place.

4. If you get lucky enough to build an audience of some worth, either through the slow grind of quality, or some other artist tapping you on the head and saying "I like you, and I will share my gigantic audience with you," or Tapastic saying "You're the best! Here's a spotlight. Enjoy your free subs," use that revenue to then contract more artists and create spin-offs or more comics that are totally different. I suggest popular tropes that people already like. Use multiple comics to create multiple tipping revenue streams to create your indie webcomic empire.

*Experiences may vary.

Oh, if you want to just draw to draw, then just do that. Stop caring about audience/comments, and start caring about improving quality.

[Mharz]

I don't need crazy good art skills to have a good comic

That is not an excuse not to strive to improve your art cus let's be honest here, art DOES play a factor to get a reader hooked in your comic. Admittedly I do too cus I don't wanna go into a cringefest and contemplate whether or not I should tell the creator that you have to improve your drawing and really I know nobody wants to hear that and I don't want to accidentally offend them because of my perfectionist nature.

Ref materials helps it's true BUT if you don't know the basic principles of drawing (construction, perspective, proportion, volume, appeal) you're gonna struggle quite a lot trying to figure out how things work.

That's just me anyway but really the most important thing is that you have to ENJOY THE STRUGGLE. If you find yourself asking "is this worth my time?" or "should I even bother?" etc instead of "ooh this is really hard but this is really going to be a fun challenge!" then you might want to think really deep on which path you want to go. You won't be able to produce great stuffs if you're not enjoying doing them. It will totally reflect on the art.

If you find drawing really tedious and you're not enjoying it then I do agree to most people here that you should just write a light novel if that would be more fun to you. If you're doing it just to gain recognition/money then you might wanna change career path altogether.

What matters is that you have to enjoy what you're doing even if it's super hard or seemingly impossible. Even if nobody acknowledges you, if this is something you really want, you'll push through it.

And that is just my two cents.

crawls back into my diglett hole

[shazzbaa]

Grind it until you want to die, you look at your $5000-$10000 loss report, and wonder if it will ever be worth it or noticed by anyone, or of you should have bought that car in the first place.

This is actually a really good point to bring up: if you DO hire an artist, and your growth on your comic doesn't drastically improve, or remains about the same pace, even with the new art..... would you regret it?
Would that be money well spent to see your vision realised, or would it be horribly frustrating to bleed money into this project and find that there's still always someone else doing better, climbing faster, growing more quickly, even though their art is now worse than yours and they're not paying anyone?

Because that will definitely still happen!