Should I give up posting novels to Tapas?

[TedGravesArt]

12- Unhelpful cynicism

[SleepingPoppy]

i think it's awesome you found somewhere your work is better received. It doesn't really matter where anyone posts their work. If it works for you, it works.

As far as a reason to stay, it doesn't hurt to have a couple mirror sites. having tapas as a backup instead of main might take some of the sting out of the numbers. Then if things work out better later, hurray? Especially if you're still planning on hosting comics here. If you build an audience for one, there might be some bleed over from people that like your work.

I feel like it's way harder to discover novels that hit ones buttons, than it is comics. It's understandable even if someone's a really capable writer, it can be discouraging.

[DasIstWunderblyat]

Is that fall on "Negativity bullshit" or not?

I deeply apologize

[Rhonder]

cliffnotes thoughts:

re- it's silly to try and make someone feel bad for taking steps in their creative journey towards creating something that performs well Different people have different goals and they're mostly all viable. The steps to those goals aren't always the same. Just because being super dedicated to a particular platform or story aligns well with one person's goals doesn't mean that it'll be the same for everyone~

re- I feel like mirrored platforms are generally beneficial tho. I don't claim to know Tapas's novel interface very well but if it requires little effort to format scheduled updates and the novel is already complete, I would personally just schedule them all and walk away if the dashboard was stressing me out. If you do decide to do more novels at a later date on this site, whatever scraps of readers you can passively pick up will be valuable, otherwise no loss. Include a link in the author's note to make sure people know where else to find you tho xD

If it is a hassle tho I do absolutely understand not wanting to spend the time. I only continued to crosspost my first comic to Webtoons, for example, because it required very little effort to do so. It didn't do well there but the process was worth in my case for the reach I was able to get- those folks are all people that will see my "hey I have a new series now, check it out!" post next month

[sevenstarsofeightIam]

All of us come to a platform like Tapas for a sense of connection, camaraderie, and support. That we show up at all speaks of our inherent worth and value. I have wanted to be a writer since the early sixties. I have spent my years undiscovered, unconnected.

But, I have in no way failed. I continue to write. My first completed work is on Amazon and now Kindle -- albeit on some back shelf where no one looks. I have books on Issuu.com. (This is me shrugging.) I see myself as a sputtering candle pressed on every side by darkness. I must say, I shine as much for myself as anyone else.

I hope you stay on and persevere. Before you make a decision to quit, do an internet search: read the story of the man who invented the ballpoint pen. I'm crossing my fingers for you.

[domisotto]

C) Write something so basic, so mainstream, and so commercial that it simply cannot fail (to be honest, the idea intrigues me...but I'd probably get bored, and if it did end up failing [which isn't unlikely, considering my track record] I'd never be able to come back from that...too risky)

Try it, but I gotta warn you, when something like that fails, it sucks more than failing with a niche story.

I’ve just written a YA, werewolf BL. Turns out, I don’t really connect with the YA, werewolf, BL audience.

Tapas audience is not easy win, but it gives you a fair shake. They are not here for anything sophisticated, they are here for a guy who found a bullied guy hang by his underwear in a door during a frat party. Speculative genre, including fairy tales, doesn’t do well online in comparison to BL here or high school romance, on Royal Road it’s lit novel and I reincarnated as a slave girl izekai.

The question is, do you love romance or I-reincarnated or bullied boy BL to write one with a song in your heart? Because if you do it while holding your nose, they will know.

Popularity is not an easy game to win, but making them love something you do takes a hell a lotta of a talent, and on the net it often won’t work. It’s ideal if you just happen to love the popular thing.

I think we all have to be ready for things not going perfect.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

"others don't have to write that well to get reads". That is a very false statement if I may say. Although you may feel like something is mainstream or not unique enough does not mean that the writer didn't put a heck ton of effort into it.

(especially since your attitude here is putting down other writers who have probably put in a lot of work to get the views/subscribers they have even if you consider them subpar writers)!

I feel like maybe I should respond to this...I hope no one feels offended or called out by what I said; that wasn't my intention.

I was just being honest. =/ No one's writing is perfect, and some authors clearly have more to work on than others. You can put a lot of effort and care into something and still not be good at it...yet.

All I was saying was that if you can still attract a decent amount of subs despite having really rough writing, then clearly skill isn't that much of a priority on this site. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, tbh.

It did make me sad, because I invest a lot of time and effort into polishing my writing and learning new ways to make it better, and it's a little frustrating to find out that it counts for f*ck all...but in the end, it also meant that it wouldn't be worth my time to blame my problems on my skill level, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[skyfarron]

Just post your stuff expecting literally nothing back to whatever platforms are easy to post on, and if they eventually get attention it'll be a surprise. Make sure to have auto-posts programmed to keep your update frequency to at least once a week or so.

Creativity is a hobby, unless you're working for the big dogs - then you're making propaganda. That's why it pays. Big Art doesn't really care about the individual vision of an artist, or the human experience - they care about what makes them money.

Lots of big Hollywood productions are covert advertising for things like cars, soft drinks, lifestyles, and franchises themselves. Marvel movies are ads for Marvel comics and so on. Each promising to add value to your life in exchange for the value spent, by making you a part of their consumer group.

In my case, I'm expecting very little from my current work, and am focusing strictly on making myself happy. I have a few followers, which makes me happy to see, but the high wears off quick and before you know it, if you aren't careful you'll take them for granted in search of a bigger crowd. I had 200+ subscribers on a comic on Webtoons and deleted it because it didn't feel right for ME, even though it was working for everyone else.

Don't aim to 'make it big', aim to make it small. That's better than nothing. Then turn your small reward into a medium project, and so on. Work your way up the ladder, on your own terms.

If you want crowdfunding or sponsorship, ask yourself, "how am I adding value to their lives in exchange for what they're giving me?" If you're asking for money for the basic act of having created art, that's not going to work - those are the things we share with our family and friends for free, usually while they roll their eyes cause they don't really get it.

Speaking from over a decade of experience publishing online.

[domisotto]

It did make me sad, because I invest a lot of time and effort into polishing my writing and learning new ways to make it better, and it's a little frustrating to find out that it counts for f*ck all...but in the end, it also meant that it wouldn't be worth my time to blame my problems on my skill level, so ¯(ツ)/¯

There is the golden middle of skill online that works for the mass reader. The completely broken stuff will just confuse everyone, and too much like a published book also will, because a lot of readers who read online have low exposure to books. They might have read a few popular YA titles or just watched anime or read lite novels or cell phone stuff.

It leaves the mid-level writers high and dry, as they can’t break out into trad publishing, but are considered too boring for the online mass reader. Basically,
shaving off complexity both plot-wise and stylistically, and writing specifically for online is, maybe, the goal. It has to be easy to read first and foremost and it has to have a high interest simple plot and almost melodramatic emotions.

[CJYoung]

You're always going to enjoy yourself the most when you're just having fun.
If you're not having fun, it might be best to take a break.
Stepping away and clearing your head can help in a lot of ways.
I know it's not the only important thing, BUT readers can tell if you're writing something you don't enjoy, whether you're just tired of it or feeling stressed in other areas.

But when you're just having fun with it and stop worrying, that's when I find the most success comes.

[MissFester]

I feel this quite a bit as well. Often times I compare the success of my comic to others', wondering what I'm doing wrong when I see someone post a single page and get 1k readers.
I'm trying to keep this short, since I think others explained this better (but in more detail).
Something to keep in mind is that these people have have fanbases built elsewhere, and marketing is a huge part of it. Huuuuuuge part of it, and I'm not sure if I can emphasize that enough.
Marketing is a skill in itself, as well as having connections, and getting lucky. No matter how good your stuff is, no one will read it if they don't know about it. And it sucks.
Go yell about your work to people and don't give up!

[milejdyvan]

Well let me contrast your thinking, because I have invested an ungodly amount of time into my work too and have managed to get some readers. My work isn't what you would call "mainstream" on this site but it still attracts readers. Why? Idk, perhaps they just like the story and characters which is the point of storytelling. Would I get them if I didn't invest time into promoting? Who knows.

Now am I saying that somebody who put in less effort than me became more popular or got more lucky? Heck yeah, I'm sure it happened with thousands of people all across the internet. Am I going to hate them for that or fault them for me not being as popular as them? Gosh no. That's not what competitive comparison is, that's just being toxic (mainly to yourself) . Compare yourself in a healthy way where it's about bringing yourself up and not bringing others down and it might help you too. Try to think what it is that they are doing right that you could do too. Do they have a catchy cover? Is the theme unique somehow? Is their humor good? Do they have good cliffhangers? Writing is not all that matters when we are talking about free content on the internet.

I've had enough of this on wattpad, and if you think that tapas stories have bad writing or whatever, then oh boy have you never seen certain genres with actual millions of reads on wattpad.. Now that is an actual bruise to an ego. I can say with confidence that nobody on Tapas is as popular for it to be bothersome (featured or not). Everybody is just average overall...

Also, subs doesn't equal readership. Actual reads matter more, so as a suggestion, I would say don't look at those for too long if you want to be on tapas. Generally speaking, every site with a subscription is like this. Most people subscribe because of the covers/blurb and don't click on the story.

[domisotto]

I can say with confidence that nobody on Tapas is as popular for it to be bothersome (featured or not). Everybody is just average overall...

That's a good point, actually. The very best breakouts are not that far from average appeal novels on Tapas. On Wattpad, it's exponential in comparison.

[demikuro]

Probably someone already told you this. You used the term "break-up" and for me seeing it like that is correct.

You know the phrase "If you love something, let it go. If it comes back to you, its yours forever. If it doesn't, then it was never meant to be." Apply that. Take a break of actually months. If after that time, suddenly you feel the inspiration to create, there you have it.

This comes from a person who gave up several times OVER YEARS, now everything I do goes relatively well without putting in much effort, because everything comes from passion.

You are conditioning your creativity, don't do it. Double check your definition of failure and succes.

[Sid]

Warning: this is one hell of a lengthy post, but I can promise it’ll help a thing or two for whoever managed to schlep through it. Hard work pays, remember?

Hey! I chanced upon the thread while I was checking waters in tapas. I saw myself in the struggles you’ve mentioned. I also saw the reviews you’ve given for all those novels, and I’m amazed at your persistence and willpower. That’s a huge takeover, you know (I might not have read as many original novels all my life, forget about reviewing), and yet you bulled through. So I’m feeling this moral obligation to share somethings that might help you in your career.

Before we begin I’d like to say ignore all those that craned their necks and declared: if you aren’t writing for fun, only for popularity and money, you should quit. Writing is every writer’s dream and they want to get money from it so they live their dream. Not that boring job which tires out our soul. So it’s nothing wrong to hope to get money out of what we pour our hearts into.

Coming to the point, I’ve read the first five chapters of this ‘Lune Levante’. I ought to say it’s, uh, very different from what I expected. I mean it doesn’t look like a web novel. It’s more like a novella set in a fairy-tale-ish world and told in fairy tale style. I’ve glimpsed at your other novel ‘Angel of Colors’. It was a short story with ten chaps, each chap at page length.

If you’re gunning for those kinds of novels, then I must say, you’re toiling in the wrong platform. As far as I know RRL, QI, tapas, and other sites are mainly for web serials, which span for hundreds of chapters. Readers here wouldn’t be enthused to pick up a short novel. They look for longer novels they could read for months, as a daily routine. They don’t get popular. And people wouldn’t pay for them. I think this is one of the major reasons for your lack of success in these sites.

Only by writing long stories and putting extra chaps in premium or patreon could you get money from these platforms. Or you could also post your novel in kindle, but it also needs some solid amount of pages and skill to get noticed.

However, if you want to establish yourself in these sites, you should understand what works for the novels here. I’m an RRL guy and came to tapas literally just yesterday. So the points I mention might be a bit biased.

First and most important to get noticed is the title of the novel. So many authors churning out so many novels each day. You might post a chap now and ten minutes later you’ll see it gone from the site’s wall, buried under the influx of novels. So in that limited time, the only way you could attract a reader is through the title.

With quirky titles such as ‘Beware of Chicken’, ‘Everyone loves large chests’, ‘a snake’s life’, you can almost instantly pull a reader into your novel. You could also try to emulate cliche titles that screams the genre of the novel in hopes you could get them. And it also works. Titles such as ‘arcane emperor’, ‘dual cultivation system’, ‘arrogant young master template’.

Next most important thing is the first chapter. There’s something called ‘blurb’ that should’ve been here, but ppl in rrl don’t seem to bother about it so I’m ignoring it. But it’s also important, mind you.

A title can get you readers to check out your novel. But what makes them stay? First chapter obviously. And preferably the very beginning line. You see the first chapter is like a carefully woven trap to readers. You begin with lines that sparks curiosity and interest in your readers. The stronger those lines were, the better. Otherwise if the first lines were regular stuff with some cheesy lines, well, you are going to lose some of those readers.

Example for gripping lines I’m talking about: (I’m going to just create them here so no references lol)

‘Gin sat by the body, wondering what he should do with it.’

‘Standing in shadows by a tree, Keith checked and rechecked his resolve to kill the man. It was absurd, but he had no choice.’

Or if you’re writing romance: ‘Brit watched as Kathie and Carl talked, standing two inches too close, slapping his shoulder playfully. He gulped. Perhaps… he should propose to her.’

Yeah, last one might be a bit weird. It’s not my genre, but hey I tried. Anyway, you can see the point right?

Beginning should evoke the reader’s interest.

In the rest of the chapter, you write how the beginning unfolded in a gritty way. But there’s an important thing that you must remember. In the rest of the first chapter you should give details about the mc to a certain extent. His aims and his intentions and stuff.

And there ought to be a twist in the ending.

You do this, and I promise you, you’ll get more readers.

Of course all that would be pointless if you don’t have a good story to follow.

So at heart, it’s all about having a good story and writing it meticulously.

Mark my words: a good story is not about what happens. It’s about how it happens. So don’t worry about taking up cliche ideas. Just worry about how to turn it into your own.

And about you being nonplussed on some mediocre novels getting popular, or getting lucked out, it happens sometimes, but if you observe closely, you’ll see those novels couldn’t turn into big ones.

For some chance like quirky titles or interesting ideas, they might get lucked out, but if they don’t put their heart into it, they’ll fall apart eventually. Luck and other factors can only take you so far, only with hard work can you reach the top and realise your dreams.

I’m going to give you an example. Once, I’ve come across two novels in rrl’ a latest updates. ‘Spirit immortal’ and ‘adventures of an old dreamer’.

Spirit immortal is written by a newbie author. There were a lot of grammar and prose problems. It hardly had any views in the beginning. But I saw his novel has something to it. A trace of originality and bundles of passion. I move with passion and passion moves me. So I prayed the best for the author.

Adventures of an old man on the other hand is a huge hit with 10k avg views and 1.5k followers. Why? Because of the ‘old’ in title and old man as an mc. That’s all there is to it. Despite good grammar and prose I just couldn’t read past two chaps. The author only had some idea like a spark of inspiration. He went and published without fleshing out the idea.

Result: after a month or so, adventures went into hiatus, but spirit immortal continued. He was only gaining like 10 readers each day, but he didn’t stop. He continued against the odds. The novel slowly gained popularity. It took three months to reach 500 followers. Well, at some point he began earning 1.2k$ per month through patreon and he also might’ve earned through kindle. I’d say it’s a success.

Takeaway: luck and other factors have short life, hard work aces in the end.

Finally be gentle and be open about your opinions. As an author it’s important that you have a broad mind. Being solidly opinionated would severely constrict your creativity. How can you create a plethora of interesting characters and scenes if you limit yourself? So go out of your comfort zones and explore. It’ll help.

Those authors you cribbed about, if they don’t have skills, and still, they braved into this novel world, help them if you can. And don’t slam them and their tiny dreams. I was one of those hopeless kids when I ventured into this world, if I haven’t had the good friends who lent me a hand I might’ve been far gone from the dream I breathe each day.

There are also many parts in your writing I would point my fingers at, but that’d drag this already lengthy post. You can ask me if you want.

Phew, that’s… one monstrous post. Good luck to anyone who managed to read this. Hope you got something helpful.

Peace out!

[domisotto]

On Tapas, unless you are writing a BL, a novel stays in Fresh section for a while, so, unlike the RR, you get a much, much better viewing time.

As for the rest, I dunno. Just having completed long series with captivating titles, beginnings/ends didn’t work for me neither on RR nor here. The ‘only’ 10 subs a day would be an unreachable dream for me, that’s for sure.

Having the feel for what the demographics wants supersedes pretty much everything on-line and it’s almost impossible to get it non-instinctively.

I dunno how many people say they will ‘just write’ hot gay sex or whatever and will get popular... but they don’t go far with it. You have to genuinely be amused and in love with your masterpiece featuring a hot guy finding a bullied hot guy hanging by his underwear from a dorm’s door to get others to love it.

The thing is, there is no other sites to go, so everyone brings everything to Watt, Tapas, RR etc as writers, hoping to find some portion of the readers who look for something different. There is just no magic site for the connoisseurs of military sci-Fi or epic fantasy or literary fiction or mystery etc.