So how do you talk about comics, anyway?

DokiDokiTsuna 2019-06-12 20:04:41 UTC #1

If you're familiar with me, you probably have an idea of where this topic is coming from...but rest assured, I'm not just being a jackass; I actually do want to know. ^^;

I don't start completely random topics because I feel the need to not talk about art or anything like that...I just do it because I feel the need to talk about interesting new things, and most of the strictly art- and writing-related topics I can think of have been done and redone, or just don't make for very engaging conversations.

But if there are still new things under the sun, I'd like to hear about them. What is there to say that hasn't already been said? Maybe this will inspire other people to start some interesting new topics, too; there's no reason I have to take all the ideas.

punkarsenic 2019-06-12 20:12:49 UTC #2

i feel like an issue on the forums isnt that weve talked about EVERYTHING we can on comics, but that its dominated by an ever-replenishing influx of beginners who need the same questions answered again and again and again - and all of us are at really early points in our careers; we dont know anywhere near as much about comics in general and our own practices as we will in a year, five years, ten years... etc

id love more discussions about things like the grid, the role of the critic, comics history and specifics of composition and all that, but A: that stuffs not here, so anyone looking for it is gonna go find it somewhere else and B: those topics arent rewarded in the same way as topics with really easy answers like 'whats your favourite x?' - thats just how the forums are structured. theres a lot of things ive wanted to share before but either havent known how or just didnt think anyoned want to know.

DokiDokiTsuna 2019-06-12 20:23:20 UTC #3

Yeah, I know that, and I expect those sorts of topics to always be around...but if that were the entirety of the forum, it'd be pretty boring to stay around here for longer than a few months. =/ In every community, there are newbie circles and there are veteran circles, right? I'd hate to think that the older members' only purpose here was to be present to answer questions for the new people...that's not much of an incentive to keep coming back...

I speak from experience when I say: just share them. The other forumers may surprise you with the depths of their knowledge and the breadth of their interests; I know I've been surprised many a time. You miss out on a lot when you assume everyone around you just won't know things.

And if you start a topic and it dies, well, that's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes. How much of your life did you really waste? It doesn't hurt to take a chance.

punkarsenic 2019-06-12 20:51:43 UTC #4

i totally agree. i think there have been spells where thereve been more engaging conversations going on, i think another part is that the more established users arent spending as much time here as newbies (bc theyre busy working), and the chats most interesting when they pop back for a bit

thats true. i didnt mean to make it sound like i was underestimating anyone - my problem is more often that i dont know how to package the thing i wanna talk about, i guess. i just wanna be like 'heres a buncha articles by frank santoro, whatcha think?'

SleepingPoppy 2019-06-12 21:11:06 UTC #5

I really loved the Nitty Gritty Tips when we were doing it. It's not an easy thing to keep going, but it was so interesting having everyone collaborate and share their knowledge. Any pooling of resources or knowledge is nice to check out.

I mean, if you did I'd probably go check some out. =)

punkarsenic 2019-06-12 21:12:13 UTC #6

yessss NGT was exactly what i want us to keep doing, basically

((( @niah146 )))

hmm... maybe i will then

VibrantFox 2019-06-12 21:26:06 UTC #7

Topics about color and composition would absolutely have my attention. I could be making a generalization but often times I see threads just asking for feedback on the composition/colors of a particular page, panel or illustration or it's talking about which does better on what platforms.

Personally threads talking about color theory or ways to put color or even black and white to use effectively would be great; maybe even including individual methods people have used for their own series (if they're willing of course). In a similar vein talking about comic composition and ways to use both vertical and traditional page formats in comics would be nice too. maybe tips on paneling and constructing decent flow in pages.

There are time's where I'd love to share resources I've found or talk about things I've tried out and see if others have done the same. To talk about influences not just in a general sense but maybe specific things about someone else's style that led us to doing something a certain way.

There really are lots of possibilities but i guess it boils down to execution and us keeping the threads we want to see afloat (at least as best we can)

elyss 2019-06-12 21:28:35 UTC #8

I would kill for more color based topics! It's hard to decide how things should be colored. It drives me nuts when people say 'just color!' I do color, but goodness it gets so hard sometimes

VibrantFox 2019-06-12 21:32:45 UTC #9

It's really not easy and I'm nuts about color (hence the name ) but I do think it'd be useful to dive into

AniStaciaArt 2019-06-12 21:38:25 UTC #10

YES! I struggle with coloring group scenes. Making all the outfits and skin tones and hair colors and backgrounds "go together" without feeling matchy. I've had very little luck finding tutorials about that.

elyss 2019-06-12 21:44:17 UTC #11

This guy makes some pretty cool videos on the topic.

skicoak 2019-06-13 09:45:26 UTC #12

There's also a wider gap in artistic approaches the further and further you get away from beginner/basic level questions. It's the kind of thing that sometimes gets really "spirited" after awhile and then Ratique gets called like Betelgeuse three times.

Hey, I LOVE spirited debate... iron sharpens iron and so on... but getting banned because I don't have the "house style" isn't my idea of a good time.

Cricketreadscomics 2019-06-13 11:46:24 UTC #13

me af

punkarsenic 2019-06-13 11:51:36 UTC #14

ha! i love the idea of Ratique getting summoned like beetlejuice

that said, i think theres a difference between spirited debate and things getting unproductively harsh. before you came here we had some spells of real vitriolic discourse. it put everyone on edge and led to a lot of honestly shitty, shitty fights. there was a thread called 'the bitching thread' that got closed and remade several times lmao

so we as a community need to find ways to get 'spirited' while avoiding hostility and bad faith arguing. especially since for a lot of artistic opinions people could disagree on, most of them dont warrant getting actually angry

LordVincent 2019-06-13 12:27:29 UTC #15

Dunno about you but I believe most of the threads that ended up locked have fallen under one of these three:

People went off topic and it the focus of the conversation became personal and occasionally aggressive discourse, or one specific person kept trying to drive the conversation off topic and engaged in an offensive manner in the process
Someone or several people insisted on making the conversation objectively unpleasant for everyone. On topic or not, offensive and agressive behaviour is a great way to kill any productive conversation.
Someone, or several people, started saying things that were homophobic, racist, sexist or transphobic. Hate speech isn't even legal guys lol of course tapas doesn't want people to slide down that path anywhere near their brand.

As for established creators being too busy to contribute much to threads... yeah that's pretty true. Usually the most successful people spend more time doing the thing rather than talking about the thing, unless they are public speakers. And when we get off work we would rather spend time with friends and family. It's just natural.

If we provide our knowledge in a discussion that's an act of kindness, and one we won't always have energy for. Especially not considering sometimes our help is met with frustration or anger. Most of the time people appreciate our input, but there's always people who get angry with the truth and take it out on the messenger.

I usually judge on a case by case basis whether or not it's worth the effort. High effort with low chance of anyone taking it to heart? Nah mate. Low effort with high chance of the person listening? Sure, why not. This is why straightforward and simple questions on the forums more often get answered.
Anything inbetween those extremes is a grey area and will depend on what mood I am in, and I can only assume the applies for many others who work with comics professionally.

punkarsenic 2019-06-13 12:42:38 UTC #16

this is kinda where i wish the forums would extend beyond the dynamic of advice-type threads. itd be great to have threads discussing different elements of comics as a profession and as an art that arent as open and shut, that arent just the askers and the providers of answers, but rather sharing different perspectives, resources, and solutions. @skicoak is right that things are most interesting on here when people are exchanging different perspectives... we just have... different perspectives on how to exchange them.

skicoak 2019-06-13 15:15:23 UTC #17

This goes right back to the differing gap in artistic approaches at higher levels and why it ends up in arguments... you're equating your input as the "truth" and then categorizing people who disagree with it as "angry", "frustrated" and "aggressive". That's a text book example of how to start an argument.

I might disagree, or disagree, with an opinion you're stating but the reflexive action of declaring an opinion as truth is the problematic issue in debate...not the opinion itself.

That's the rub...hostility and bad faith aren't the issue. It's an inability of those engaged to not apply positive and negative labels to sides of a debate. We're, as a board, constantly engaging in debates of opinion here... and even with the high level of civility, there's too much emotional/feud based behavior affecting the discourse.

Reign 2019-06-13 15:30:27 UTC #18

I would be interested in more topics that touch on traditional artwork. A while back I asked for any advice on working with Copic markers, and what I was given was good. I got about three tutorial videos and a little bit of insight. But most of it was an, “I’m not sure.” That’s going off of my horrible memory and it was posted a long time ago. I don’t want to make it sound like I’m ungrateful for the responses I got, because it was nice. I do notice that a lot of artists on here do digital. Maybe I just need to concentrate on posting more about traditional art topics.

vothnthorvaldson 2019-06-13 15:33:41 UTC #19

Yep! I'm rarely viewing things the same way as you do, I'm sometimes frustrated/annoy to read some of your messages, and... that's great! I don't see the problem, I actually see it as positive. I simply wish there were more free thinkers. It does not matter if they have the same opinions than me or not.

I'm more often frustrated by (and I find really disheartening) hearing similar views than mine, but in a context so restrictive, so narrow minded, that I can already see that I'll get aggressed/censored for the most minute detail I won't agree on.

DokiDokiTsuna 2019-06-13 15:49:23 UTC #20

That's what stops me from introducing a lot of topics, to be honest...the fear that it'll just end up being a big, bland 'agreement-fest'.
I mean, it's nice to agree, but it's not interesting. Where's the fun in everyone going 'yeah'??

That's why I prefer to start topics that invite people to share personal experiences and stories...or topics that force people to rationalize things or blatantly take sides. >:] Disagreeing with people doesn't have to be scary...just be respectful and don't take things too seriously. I mean, it's the internet; no one here knows where you live. ^^