So how do you talk about comics, anyway?

[skicoak]

I didn't "claim" anything.

A contributor on this board sent me a private message... Warning me about the potential circumstances of my opinions based off discussions off the forum, and flagged a mod into it so there was no misunderstanding. The behavior warned did and to a lesser degree still occurs.

None of which is really part of this hive mind discussion...that, was like you said, other "bad actors".

If you haven't had comments flagged repeatedly...then yeah, you probably don't see it. But there's plenty of folks who have... and know what I'm talking about. I'm not even the first to call it hive mind but it's apt.

[LordVincent]

and see where my disagreeing with someone got labelled as ...

The problem wasn't that you disagreed, it was that you insisted on aiming for the worst interpretation of my post you possibly could, dove head deep into it trying to make me look bad, ignored when I and someone else pointed out my actual intention and what I was actually referring to, and now you are referring back to the same discussion as if the part where we pointed out where you flew right off the rails never occured.

You're claiming that we are in disagreement when the actual matter is more that I'm talking about strawberries and you're talking about apples, and you're trying to claim I said a good size apple is the size of 2-4 thumbs completely overlooking the fact that I'm standing in a strawberry field, pointing at a strawberry, quite obviously talking about a strawberry, and me + one other individual already told you twice that hey mate we aren't in disagreement, it just seems we're talking about different things.

[LordVincent]

A contributor on this board sent me a private message... Warning me about the potential circumstances of my opinions based off discussions off the forum, and flagged a mod into it so there was no misunderstanding. The behavior warned did and to a lesser degree still occurs.

I happen to know the person you are talking about and they never even intended for it to be interpreted or understood the way you took it.

This is another case of you misinterpreting a thing and then refusing to let it go even when told it's not actually the case or not the thing we were trying to say.

If you believe there is a hivemind, go ahead. If you believe you and I are in disagreement, whatever. But don't point to "evidence" trying to support this that isn't actually evidence of that thing because you are twisting words and making the people involved look bad, plus it's rather deceptive behavior.

[SleepingPoppy]

I didn't "claim" anything.

I say claim because I only have your word for it, not because I think you're lying. Wasn't meant as a slight.

[Reign]

@skicoak

I find that I’m on the fence here. I agree with @elyss. I think you’re strong willed, which is not a problem. I wish I was. I’m not as much as I’d like to be, and maybe I’m a little sensitive. I think you do come off as very blunt a lot of times. Blunt isn’t bad, and in no way do I want to sit here and say, “you need to change.” That’s not fair and definitely not right of me to say. But I think a lot of it comes down to knowing when or where to say things. Everyone responds differently and has different sensitivities. I’m not saying we have to please everyone or change ourselves to be pleasing, but to use different tools out of our social interactions tool box. I think your bluntness gets mistaken for anger and meanness. I haven’t looked at the posts you’ve mentioned where people flag you, but I think a lot of it comes down to insensitivities, maybe even on both sides.

[skicoak]

I will quote this over and over...

When I speak of the "truth" i am referring to simple basics like "building a brand will take time", "most of the time you won't make a living of your comics overnight" etc. You're creating problematics out of nothing and trying to make me look bad in the process, it's quite troublesome.

What part of that entire second sentence isn't antagonistic?

You could have easily just posted the first sentence clarifying what "truths" you were talking about... but you didn't. You labelled this...

This goes right back to the differing gap in artistic approaches at higher levels and why it ends up in arguments... you're equating your input as the "truth" and then categorizing people who disagree with it as "angry", "frustrated" and "aggressive". That's a text book example of how to start an argument.

I might disagree, or disagree, with an opinion you're stating but the reflexive action of declaring an opinion as truth is the problematic issue in debate...not the opinion itself.

...as an "attack". That's just someone disagreeing with you... in the context of the discussion.

[LordVincent]

You were, and still are, twisting my words and trying to make me look like something I'm not. That's what I was pointing out, it's still what I'm pointing out, and I will gladly stop when you stop trying to make me out to be something I'm not.

We were not disagreeing. We were talking about different things and you were trying to apply my statement to your thing and in the process made me look like a rather unfavorable person. That is destructive and deceptive and can you really blame me for correcting you when you're trying to make me look like I said something I didn't and make me look bad?

[skicoak]

I say claim because I only have your word for it, not because I think you're lying. Wasn't meant as a slight.

That's cool... I mean it should be pointed out that you don't just have my "word" for it. Note if I was lying about a message that a mod also read... I would have been called on it.

[skicoak]

You were, and still are, twisting my words and trying to make me look like something I'm not.

I am directly quoting your own post. Are you saying I called myself "troublesome" inside your quote?

[SleepingPoppy]

That's cool... I mean it should be pointed out that you don't just have my "word" for it.

I have literally only ever heard your words on the matter. None the less, I have never questioned it.

Note if I was lying about a message that a mod also read... I would have been called on it.

That's a pretty big assumption I'm not ready to make. XD

[SleepingPoppy]

I am directly quoting your own post. Are you saying I called myself "troublesome" inside your quote?

I think Vincent us saying you were in fact being troublesome? Reinterpreting someone's words to a more negative assessment IS troublesome. And you can take a negative interpretation, and Vincent can say that's not what they meant and that you were being troublesome. Ya'all are going round and round for no reason.

[LordVincent]

Let me walk you through this slowly.

What I originally said and meant is: More experienced artists may not feel like giving new artists advice in the business all the time because sometimes they get angry and take it out on us when we have to break it to them that fame or good skills won't be achieved overnight.

That was my original statement. Since then you've been twisting these words to mean that I think my opinion in regards to art is the ultimate truth and that anyone who disagrees is just angry. I've told you this is not the case. Others have told you this is not the case. You continue to derail and twist my words and the conversation to look like it's the case.

This is why I called your behavior troublesome. Because it is. It's impossible to have a conversation if you're going to decide on an interpretation, stick to it when you're told it was not the intended meaning, and try to argue me on something I never said.
I can't argue you on a thing I never said because it's not a point I stand by. Stop trying to make me.
We can't "stop acting by a hivemind" because there's no hivemind to begin with. Please stop accusing us of this, we have no idea how to approach it other than attempt to ignore it, but it gets rather troublesome in the long run because you're telling new users this and it's making the entire community look bad for no reason.

[skicoak]

@Reign
@elyss

I understand the viewpoint about the tone of my posts.

Part of the debate/conversation, before the detour, was kind of around the idea that being different should be encouraged not punished in a creative forum. Maybe it rubs some people the wrong way, that's unfortunate but it's the way I communicate.

[skicoak]

That was my original statement.

No, this is your original statement... please highlight where it says anything about "fame or good skills"..

As for established creators being too busy to contribute much to threads... yeah that's pretty true. Usually the most successful people spend more time doing the thing rather than talking about the thing, unless they are public speakers. And when we get off work we would rather spend time with friends and family. It's just natural.

If we provide our knowledge in a discussion that's an act of kindness, and one we won't always have energy for. Especially not considering sometimes our help is met with frustration or anger. Most of the time people appreciate our input, but there's always people who get angry with the truth and take it out on the messenger.

I usually judge on a case by case basis whether or not it's worth the effort. High effort with low chance of anyone taking it to heart? Nah mate. Low effort with high chance of the person listening? Sure, why not. This is why straightforward and simple questions on the forums more often get answered.Anything inbetween those extremes is a grey area and will depend on what mood I am in, and I can only assume the applies for many others who work with comics professionally.

Now I made an ASSUMPTION based on the topic of all the previous posts being about artistic choices and viewpoints that you were engaging in that discussion. In your second/follow up post is where you clarify you were talking about "fame and good skills" without actually using those exact words in your first post.

Now the wide majority of this board would have responded to the confusion by clarifying what they had meant and addressing that... you instead made half your statement about being made to look bad and me being troublesome.

You're the aggravator of this situation but you keep playing victim cards about me "twisting words" and "making you look bad".

In the course of this you've called me multiple names and implied you needed to speak to me slowly....You can go back and check, I've disagreed with statements and quotes you made but you won't find any disparaging adjectives or adverbs in my posts.

You escalated this... you continue to escalate this.

[SleepingPoppy]

[ble]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[skicoak]

I don't care about intricate art debates or people trying to win internet points by being right. I feel energy and motivation, at least for me, are very limited, so i prefer to put those on creating something.

I can do both... I'm a multi-tasker!

[ble]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[elyss]

This is the best place to procrastinate because it's just close enough to what you want to do that you can justify it your brain.

I like to talk about the idea of writing, but not my story itself. I'll totally post things here and there when people do topics about 'post a paragraph here' kinds of things, but otherwise I'm just here to watch and occasionally participate.

[punkarsenic]

That's the rub...hostility and bad faith aren't the issue. It's an inability of those engaged to not apply positive and negative labels to sides of a debate. We're, as a board, constantly engaging in debates of opinion here... and even with the high level of civility, there's too much emotional/feud based behavior affecting the discourse.

i agree with that, people are too emotionally invested in some conversations had here. though i think part of that is bc of our ~dark past, as it were. another part is immaturity and twitterbrain

Did you show up and intentionally go off topic? Then made it personal by calling me "troublesome"? I'm pretty sure someone defined that as...

yall. dont summon beetlejuice