Social cues: how to distinguish rude joke (not ill-intended), from real insulting (ill-intended)

[unknown_user]

New art-unrelated topic...

So, the subj. Sometimes you can encounter the following situations:

• A person makes rude jokes on you, but without real antipathy. This may include jocular name-calling, but a person doesn't seriously think that you fall under definition of these bad names. They sincerely think that they're doing it in "friendly" way and don't expect that you'll be really hurt by it.
• A person mock on you with real antipathy. They call you names because they really think that you fall under definition of these bad names, and then use justification "it's just a joke" just to relieve responsibility for their words.

The question is, how to distinguish these cases.

---

I personally use the following signals for distinguishing these cases:

1. If you show that you got seriously (not jokingly!) upset by the "joke", they have the following reaction:
   -- Not ill-intended person apologizes or makes clearly more friendly actions to relief the tension. They also sincerely try to remember, what offended you. At the next opportune moment, when the "joke" looks suitable for them again, they may feel strong temptation to repeat it, but in the very moment when they see you angry face, they hold back. They become more discreet in similar kind of jokes in the future as well.
   -- Ill-intended person doesn't always apologize. Moreover: sometimes they makes even more rude or mocking claims/actions in response. But even if they apologized, by the chance, they continue to repeat "joke", which insulted you, in the future, without thinking twice and without any restrictions. They don't hold back even knowing that it hurts you, just say "come on, you have no sense of humor".
2. If you make similar kind of jokes on them, as they did on you:
   -- Not ill-intended person laugh. In some cases, they may start to mock in response or make friendly fight, but giving clear signs that they're not really angry.
   -- Ill-intended person doesn't laugh. They look really angry and may quarrel in response.
   (Here, we have a little side quest - how to understand, if a person is jokingly angry or if they are really angry, but it's much easier task, so I'll omit it for now)
3. If you ask to clarify, why do they think that things they said (or made) are funny:
   -- Not ill-intended person may give clarification or repeat the same "joke" in clearly softer way, to show why is it funny. Even if not, they at least understand that you're upset by the tone of your question, and then behave like in the case 1. They don't react angrily on this request.
   -- Ill-intended person doesn't give real clarification. They just pretend that humorous part is obvious for everyone but you and make you look like a wet blanket. They may sometimes react angrily on this request or repeat a "joke" in more cruel way instead of softer or clarifying manner, as in previous case.
4. Context and non-verbal signs:
   -- Not ill-intended person doesn't look spiteful or angry when they say/do their "jokes". They do all of it in relaxed context, when they have no clear reasons to be seriously angry or despise you.
   -- Ill-intended person calls you names with spiteful face and tone (again, it's a side quest to understand if the tone is really spiteful, but...). They often do it in context, when they have real reasons to be angry or feel antipathy to you. For example, they may do it when some your features or something you did is qualified as bad in their moral system, and you both know it.

This list can be incomplete, and it still may leave a "grey area", in which it's still unclear, is person ill-intended or not. Also you may be disagree with some points or have objections, additions or clarifications! If you have any, let's discuss. It'll be helpful for me and other people, who sometimes struggles with social cues.

[therealbereth]

I honestly think that this distinction doesn't matter.

If the person is hurt, the intent is meaningless. Result > intent. It's not hard to apologize and stop doing what one might consider "funny" if it genuinely isn't to the person on the receiving end.

[unknown_user]

I'm not agree. If one will learn to distinguish these cases instead of being offended by everything, their life will be easier.

Besides, I personally may perceive the same words very differently in case, when I'm sure that they are joking and in case when I feel that they really mean it. So in the first case I will likely have no hard feelings, but in second case I may be hurt from the same words. I think, the same is applicable for many other people as well.

[DualDragons]

This is actually big for me. I have trouble with distinguishing these jokes sometimes, resulting in awkward situations for me and the people involved

I might try one of these sometime when this situation pops up

[Kelheor]

Context and non-verbal signs:
Ill-intended person calls you names with spiteful face and tone

This usually doesn't work like this though =) Many people will badly "joke" with a usual face or even a nice smile... and they will mean it.

[unknown_user]

How do you distinguish in this case, then? Do you use other signs I mentioned or something else?

[IdiotWithPencil]

If the person is hurt, the intent is meaningless.

That's a quick way of making cry bullies, Example:
I find what you are saying offensive and makes me feel bad, apologize right now for my hurt feelings. Why am I offended? doesn't matter I just am Apologize right now!!!

see what I mean?

[DiegoPalacios]

This could be based on context. Some people who are close to each other enjoy doing playful jabs between them, but not everyone does. I have this dynamic between me and some friends (including playful trash talk while playing games but being a good sport afterwards), but with others this dynamic hasnt been built. It depends of the kind of dynamic you have with the person.

Personally, i work it as an inner joke with someone i know well enough, and i make sure to know what things are fair game to joke about and what things are going too far.

I avoid this kind of joking while online because the tone of the person can`t be perceived, so is hard to know if one upset the other or are joking too. (maybe if i figure out how to convey tone i would go with it with some friends?, not sure yet tho...)

[Jenny-Toons]

@DiegoPalacios Ditto -- and that's why I stick to puns when joking overall on the internet (or at least well- known memes). There's little room to misinterpret puns, and even if someone doesn't get it, explaining the pun isn't a chore. If anything, people now learn how to understand puns and tell them themselves.

I leave other jokes for close friends who've already gotten to know me. And that's really the thing -- not every stranger on the internet is my friend. I'm not gonna act around a stranger the same way I act around friends or family. That's not being two-faced, that's showing boundaries and giving myself space.

So I guess in terms of social cues -- if you don't know someone, don't act like you do? That especially goes with joking -- assuming someone will get offended or won't get offended by a joke makes an ass outta you and me. Just ease into it with light talk, light jokes, and gradually open up more when you get to know them.

And if you miss a social cue or think you did -- just be up front about it. That happens -- misunderstands happen all the time and trying to clear things up helps makes things easier. You're not tripping over your shoes for anyone if you're just trying to clear up a misunderstanding. Just own it.

[unknown_user]

I leave other jokes for close friends who've already gotten to know me. And that's really the thing -- not every stranger on the internet is my friend. I'm not gonna act around a stranger the same way I act around friends or family. That's not being two-faced, that's showing boundaries and giving myself space.

I also usually avoid to make rude jokes toward less familiar people, for whom I'm not sure, is it normal for them or not. I find it more suitable to make such jokes with friends, who know me for long, and for whom I already know that it's fine for them. They do the same for me, and I laugh, if I see that it's not serious.
But...
Sometimes members of your family or not-so-reliable friends seems to make real insulting, masking it under "rude joke" cover. Even despite they know you for long. These cases are not so obvious, I want to distinguish them better.

[vothnthorvaldson]

Absolutely, and I'll go further: it can completely destroy social relationships. How can someone communicate in a deep way with people who go by 'intent is meaningless'? That forces relationships to stay extremely shallow and artificial. How to communicate with people from different cultures? Impossible if one goes by 'intent is meaningless' etc, etc.

To me, in the contrary, only the intent counts; the only case where intent is not enough, is when the person makes no effort to communicate about their intent, in the case it's badly understood. Intent is all I care for, but one needs to give me clues of what the intent was, even if it's afterwards.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I don't think you can make a reliable distinction in the moment...the difference between the two will usually make itself known in a pattern of behavior over time.

The first time it happens, and you're not sure which is which, you should definitely question it. A simple "...What did you say?" will usually knock the person off their guard, and if they really didn't mean to offend you they'll probably apologize and explain right then. If they just laugh it off and say "just kidding, lol"...keep watching. And don't laugh with them.

Someone who doesn't want to offend you will do it less often if they're not getting positive reactions from you, while someone who does want to offend you (or doesn't care) will not change their behavior. You can also watch what the person in question says about you to others...is it "wow, they're so serious" or is it more like "bitch can't take a joke"...? Gather all the clues you can if you plan to act on your suspicions.

But if you really can't figure it out, or if you have figured it out and don't know what to do, just know that you can't go wrong with a neutral reaction. To those that mean well, it will signal that "hey, something isn't working" and to those that mean ill, it will show them that you won't be provoked (maybe that isn't true, but that's what it'll show them). ^^

[indagold]

All my friends are edgelords so I can tell if they're joking, my advice is If you legit can't tell them apart (which sounds like a really bad habit) then the only advice I can give you is don't feed the flames and move on with your life. If its a stranger don't get into slapfights over whether or not they're joking, just ignore them. If its someone you know very well, it's more than likely it's a joke... legit just ask their political opinions. 9 times outta 10 they're probably pretty level headed and open minded but have a habit to make edgy jokes.

[skicoak]

There's also something to be said about how humor is harder to quantify without additional shared constructs.

As an oldster, it's weird to me that large swaths of people need a "LOL" or to follow a written statement to clarify the tone. Even if the margin of error for misunderstanding is relatively small.

That's why the examination of social clues is a worthy pursuit but you could be missing a ton of social interaction that is specific shared construct of a small group.

I've been part of groups that develop a distinct shorthand for delivery and receipt of rude jokes. Outside attempts to quantify the intent of those jokes would be skewed by not having the proper Rosetta Stone as it were.

[Kelheor]

Sorry, late reply due to some overworking xD

Hard to say, sometimes as you say you can judge it by the tone of the voice/context, but again, not always

If it's a friend, you probably know them by now and you say you don't like the joke if it really hurt. If a person is an acquaintance, you'll probably know by now if they're an asshole or not.
I will never say to not_a_friend that I am offended (or joke back), exactly because I believe most people will pressure on this point again Something like this will work if you are in a new community though, when you don't know people and people don't know you yet, so you have to check everybody out. Not with someone you already know or a random stranger on a bus.

I am bad with talking to people in general and I rarely talk back, so I'm not the best person to write something useful here, people up there wrote it the best

[Darkstrong]

People don't get my jokes all the time. I mean, constantly. For some reason, even the most harmless thing (from my perspective) turns into an insult. I've got no idea how to deal with it 🤨
But I probably won't apologize for something harmless, that I said. I will just go 🤨🤷
That really depends on the situation though

[ar-ninetysix]

Not that I've faced this in a long time, but my response (whether I was hurt or not) would simply be "I don't get it." I don't like sharing my emotions like that in person, so this is my solution rather than just telling any friends outright that I was hurt. A plain statement really allows you to see the intent behind what they meant, I feel.

Chances are, they'll most likely kill the rude joke by over-explaining it. They might even find themselves not liking the joke anymore once they've explained why it was supposed to be funny. Believe it or not, there's people that become self-aware like that. You'll have a chance to say how you feel about it, and if they still persist on making that kind of joke around you.. well, that's up to you and how much you're willing to tolerate it.

And if it was an insult, they'll have to elaborate on what they actually meant.. which I imagine would be an uncomfortable position to be in. They'd either have to explain their thoughts and feelings more, or just apologize out of whatever negative feeling got imposed on them. Both situations in this context would give you a chance to let them know that you did feel insulted. It might even open up the opportunity for a calm discussion on what reason they had for feeling the need (or impulse) to insult you.

Or... I guess, you could just ask if that's a joke or insult, and plainly tell them you couldn't tell the difference.. but we don't do that here lol

[therealbereth]

I'm not agree. If one will learn to distinguish these cases instead of being offended by everything, their life will be easier.

Hmmm. Yes, and no?

Thing is, I'm not talking about "being offended". There are things that are just genuinely hurtful and so simply unnecessary. Of course, if one learns to shrug it off better, then life gets easier—but only because people refuse to just be respectful. In my opinion, there is nothing that keeps people from being rude but themselves. So if someone tells me what I'm saying or doing is hurting them, who am I to say that's not the case? Who am I to insist on my behavior?

I feel like it would be easier to just be nice to each other. Misunderstandings happen, quite frequently even, and they can be talked about. But insisting on hurtful behavior is another thing entirely. If people do that, I write them off entirely. No time for unnecessary and intentional harm.

That's a quick way of making cry bullies, Example: I find what you are saying offensive and makes me feel bad, apologize right now for my hurt feelings. Why am I offended? doesn't matter I just am Apologize right now!!!

Your example is someone manipulating another. If people do that, they have other issues than how people talk to them.

[DarJodo]

It may seem like people lack subtlety, but it is worth keeping in mind that, first, more people than ever are engaging in literate activities. That is good, but it does mean that the average level of discourse online is going to skew toward the simple.

Second, people are going to use emojis if given the choice. They do help us reclaim some of the things that are lost when we stop talking face-to-face.

[skicoak]

Second, people are going to use emojis if given the choice. They do help us reclaim some of the things that are lost when we stop talking face-to-face.

When I first started texting, I would sometimes send a picture of my face displaying the appropriate emotional content of a message that I thought might not be interpreted correctly. And maybe it was a commentary on my face as well... but people did not like it. They universally did not like it.

So I question that emojis truly fill in for face to face content...since my actual face tested poorly.

I suspect they occupy something closer to a simplified combination of shorthand and punctuation.