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Sep 2020

There is an anonymous poll as you further scroll down on the post. Your participation is appreciated!

LATEST EDIT: There is a second, anonymous poll here8

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As we all can see, this is an unintended problem.

We sub because we like a series and wish to enjoy it at a later time. But we don't know that simply subbing is detrimental to the creator. I didn't.

The story rankings depend on the interaction/ sub ratio. The more subs you have, the lesser your story grows, unless you have readers that interact with your story regularly.

I sub on the stories I genuinely enjoy and don't want to forget about the series the next time I try searching for it. The last thing I have on mind is to bring these works down.

I'm here to look for solutions, and I don't want to feel like I'm alone.

From now on, whichever series I sub to, I'm gonna leave at least five likes on their chapters, go back to it at a later date, and then decide whether or not I want to keep the likes there. It's just that I don't want the writer to go down, and I don't want to leave empty likes either. If I can help them in any way during the time I'm not reading their story, I will.

I love my creators and I don't want them to go down because of me.
Stupid, but that's one way I've come up with.

Need brainstorming here.

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Edit: So far, the solutions are:

A) WHAT WE CAN DO AS READERS:

  1. Sub only if we like the work. (Don't do sub for sub. It's bad for both you and the creator.)
  2. Since we like the work, no problem in supporting the creator. :slight_smile: To nullify the effect of our subscription, we can leave a few likes so that their work is at least unaffected.


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3.If you are interested in a story and don't want to leave likes, bookmark it on your computer and get back to it later! That way you aren't subbing but keeping a track at the same time!
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4.Promote interactions via likes and comments over avoiding the dead subs.

To further elaborate:


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B) WHAT WE CAN DO AS CREATORS

  1. Consistently upload. Don't lose hope.
  2. Give your best in content and promotions.
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C) WHAT THE STAFF CAN DO:

1.Second Library (For the poll, please scroll down)


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Concept: Second library (NOT AUTO UNSUB AS IT HAS GARNERED CONSIDERABLE DISAPPROVAL)

1.1. Reader subs.
1.2. No activity for 90 days
1.3. The story moves to the second library of the reader. This library does not affect the ranking stats of the writer. In other words, the subscriber is essentially subscribed to your work but that subscription is not counted in the denominator of your rankings (after 90 days of inactivity)
1.4. Once activity resumes, the subscriber falls in your denominator. So the writer is getting actual engagement to sub stats.
1.5 Alternative to the second library: Removing ghost subs from the algorithm.


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(ANONYMOUS) POLL: SECOND LIBRARY?
This is for the tapas team though, so I'll only tag them if this point garners the majority of your support.

  • Agree
  • No need for a second library

45voters

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2.Change algorithms to give more preference to daily viewership over subs.

Many differences have arisen here as well. Please click on the poll link for a broader perspective on the matter.
For the anonymous poll on whether or not you agree, please click HERE8
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3.Removing the smaller sub milestones to deter new creators from assuming subs are their goals.

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    Sep '20
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    Oct '20
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There are 223 replies with an estimated read time of 41 minutes.

Yeah, I only have less than 10 percent of my subscribers that are active, and less than half of those actives who are actually leaving comments.
Many episode views but only a few feedbacks.
My comic flops. :sweat_smile:
So I know very well about the situation.

All I can really do as a creator is:

  1. Try to make content people want to read and interact with through comments and likes because exciting and interesting stuff keeps happening and it doesn't waste their time with filler pages or breaking the flow mid-chapter for promotions.
  2. Try to update regularly to build reading as a habit and the story keeps moving.
  3. Never take part in "sub for sub" or similar behaviours that encourage people to give me empty subs just to get their own sub number up.

I can't stop somebody from subbing to my comic because they just saw it in passing but have bitten off more comics than they can chew, or because they think I'll feel some sense of obligation to sub back out of politeness or whatever, but I can at least do the things listed above.

As a reader, I'm trying not to sub to things I won't read, but it can be tough at times when I really want to encourage a person to make content, and I think it sucks not many people read it but it's not really my cup of tea.

I went back and left ten likes on each of my subs. (On a crazy spree right now)

Go back to see if you want to keep the likes? Meaning you'll take them away if you don't?

I did see the likes come in

When I go back to read, and I'm removing likes by any chance, it means I'm already engaging with your work full on, so you'll be getting more likes on the way.

And no, I don't plan to take away the likes, it's just that I don't want to give the creator the impression that I'm leaving empty likes.

aha! Got it.
I Thought you meant: i like x parts now, when I read and its not my thing, I take the likes away xD

No, no, haha. I subbed because I like your work in the first place.

Hence the 'sub only if you like'. No one, I believe, would want to bring the author down if they are subbing because they are interested in your work, and not doing it to bribe their likes on their own work. What happened to you is plain mean.

I have 28 subs right now, and only a few comment and respond to my posts. I just randomly found this thread, but I can totally relate! I used to leave empty likes a lot, but I genuinely love the works I'm subscribed to ^^

I think I'm missing something - does a creator lose out if they have a lot of subs but not many likes? Suddenly I think I'm glad I don't have so many subs, haha!

I've had a few people offer to trade sub for sub, but I only want to read comics I'm interested in myself (whether or not they've subscribed to mine) and there's only so much time. Nobody's been upset when I've explained that so far :slight_smile:

I prefer the genuine subs and likes too. You are lucky @sunkitten that your sub exchange has worked. I've done them in the past and the stories usually aren't something I enjoy or if I do subscribe and keep reading as a courtesy, the person I did the exchange with usually never honors their end.

The problem is not you, the problem is the algorithms that are still living in the Golden Age of the self-publishing of the 2012-2015 when everything was new and shiny, and there was not that much good quality, completed stories. Now, you have them in oodles, so people simply do not have time to pour out love on the creators, even the most successful and beloved ones.

I remember back in 2009 when Best Served Cold came out, and they had Joe Abercrombie's e-mail address on it. I wrote how much I loved the story and the main character and he responded with thanks and a couple of comments on the character(!) I was OVER THE MOON!

Joe's latest book? I struggled for a few chapters TWICE, said meh, and dropped it off. And I still like his every post on Twitter, lol. Love Joe, can't get into his book.

Those were the times... now, less and less people want to engage. We are fatigued. We are exhausted by the endless entertainment options calling to us from every internet and streaming corner. We live in the weird culture when people wouldn't pick up short stories, but would read 2 to 5 chapters of a 100K words story and drift away, distracted. And the chapters are becoming shorter and shorter!

Lol, I am reading Grisham's Firm atm, that gripping thriller? 40 pages in, and it is the repetition of the same thing, the thing i had already picked up on in page 3. If it was online? I'd be scrolling through or dropping, because booooring.

The algorithms are not yet adjusted to this behavior, they don't get it that someone even clicking on one chapter and staying to the end of it, is already a huge win!

Wake up, algorithms and smell the roses: 2012 ain't coming back.

That's why I'm trying to avoid subscribing to some books at the moment. Don't want to hurt their books by subbing and not being able to read it for a long time so I end up supporting them on their social media instead.

And this emphasis on subs is really a Catch 22 for the novels.

Even if the novel is 100-150K words, and you slice it thin, it is still a short run with daily updates... so you will be done fast. And once you are done, what's the point of people subbing?

So, a strong, polished, preloaded novel will have much shorter window of the opportunity to fish for its subs. Because, no, the audience for a novel doesn't show up every day to browse through every novel showing up in Fresh.

I mean, isn't a point of a novel to be complete and available to read the WHOLE thing, beginning to end? And if it's the case, what do you need to sub for?

If the writer is diligent, and uploads daily, why sub? It would only plug your feed, and irritate you if you don't check the site every day.

If they don't upload daily, how many books can you read with any ability to keep the plot in mind and characters in your heart every three to seven or fourteen days?

This just encourages a really low quality reading experience, when you read multiple chapters of multiple stories per day in a scattered fashion. No wonder people don't engage! I mean, I had been reading like that for three years, reading a dozen or more books simultaneously, every day, and it is tiring as heck. Particularly when I have to provide feedback on something I've last read like a month or two ago? Lol. If I remember the name of their love interest, gold star!

It also pushes to the top the stories with disjointed structure and overtly titillating characters rather than a strong, engaging storyline and nuanced story-telling.

Anyway, yeah, weird. I am willing to give time and heart to the other creators, but the way the algorithms interpret engagement and what they reward makes it less enjoyable.

@domisotto Makes excellent points about engagement and the algorithms. Behavior is key. For me, there's only been a handful of stories I go check out every update because the story is naturally to me. I don't always comment but I read and give likes. There are other stories I've read, they are good but are on the back burner. I have every intention of continuing to read them but now isn't the time.

The other thing for me is how much "advertising" something gets. As a kid, I loved superheroes. I still love them to an extent. Now, because the media is oversaturated with superhero stuff, I won't watch it. There is only a few superhero fan faction stuff I still read. The same thing applies to other online pieces of fiction, I'll read it because I want to not because I'm forced or obliged to.

The best we can do is keep the stories we aren't reading on neutral grounds.