Straight girls writing BL/Straight guys writing GL

[Vanadis]

I understand how that kind of stuff can be off-putting, most of it never really reflects down-to-earth gay relationships, it's all pretty fetishised stuff made just to titillate a usually non-gay audience. But it does have it's place?
In general, we need more variety written by more diverse creators.
As a bi woman I'm going to explore a variety of relationships in my comic, some gay, some straight, and I'll just tell it from a perspective I feel needs covering. RetroBlade isn't a romance comic, relationships are very much in the background, the character's sexuality isn't really important and never really comes up otherwise. But I still want to represent lesbian and bi characters where I can because I feel like they are often fetishised in the mainstream as well, and need more representation.

[indagold]

woah chill out, dude. So what if someone's ignorant It's not the same thing as being hateful and purposely mean. There's a fine line between not knowing something and being an asshole. And someone who is straight has as much validitiy in their opinion as someone who isn't if they're caring, kind and nice.

[riverfur]

LMFAO to me these terms aren't /that/ bad. Most of the time the q-slurs are thrown around as an endearing term, much like how Australians throwing "cunt" around in every sentence they speak or how you call your best friend "why u gotta be a bitch" I'm 99.99% sure they don't harbor any malice intention and shouldn't be taken seriously.

Okay...but as a non-straight person who's seen people like me be referred to by the q-slur and other terms like that, and is often subjected to hearing people talk using terms like that in a derogatory way, those terms kinda are "that bad". You have as much a right as anyone to contribute to this discussion, but I do want you to understand that your experiences are different from others' because you're straight.
Also, slurs that have a history of oppression shouldn't be "thrown around" at all, imho.

[tayo_rafferty]

I'm definitely on the 'queer spectrum' or whatever and I love seeing well written romance m/f, m/m, f/f. I know what you mean when you say it is fetishistic, that is true for about 60-80% of the BL on the site; it's not about two characters falling in love it's about the fact that they're queer HOWEVER I am glad that straight people are actually exploring those relationships in any capacity instead of pretending they don't exist.

[punkarsenic]

that girl was being happily and intentionally ignorant, and i dont need to be nice and caring to homophobes, thanks

[69Michi]

I understand why those terms would make you feel uncomfortable, and all I was saying is that most people in your given example probably wasn't even trying to be offensive or insulting you in anyway. And not just straight people, I have seen plenty of trans and gay people use these terms. It all just depends on how serious you take it. I'm an optimistic person alright, and I believe you shouldn't take slurs and joke on the internet too seriously, it will only give you a headache if you care way too much. I know where your opinion came from and personally I would never use those kind of words even in an endearing way. I just hope you understand that not every straight girls that write BL would say those words, and not every people that use those slurs mean it insultingly.

that girl was being happily and intentionally ignorant, and i dont need to be nice and caring to homophobes, thanks

Suddenly I turn into homophobes? Okay LMFAO

[Kayke]

I understand that a lot of us are personally invested in LGBTQ representation so discussions like this can become emotional but I feel like this thread is getting off topic and kind of heated, so I'm going to close it down for a while.

[Kayke]

This topic is now opened. New replies are allowed.

Everyone please be respectful to each other and OP.

[NovaPlucGroup]

Idk, if you think about it BL is actually made for straight girls and things like bara are made for gay guys. Maybe it's just made to be that way ( Haha, I really don't know if there's something for lesbian girls so sorry ''/) Also, I see a lot of people on here who are saying they like older characters who have a genuine romance, and again, you're looking at the wrong genre. Josei is the 'true' adult romance. There are a lot of gay Josei manga out there, so I'm sure you can find what you're looking for if that's the issue.

[Herofeeder]

its their way of viewing a gay or a lesbian relationship.
i can bet you not all of the writters in Will and Grace were gay
heck even some members of the Villiage People(YMCA) are straight.
Barnie Stinson was played by a gay guy...best acting ever .

TL;DR: I'm frustrated that a lot of same-gender romance comics are being written and consumed by straight people who not only create content that's uncomfortable for LGBT+ people to read, but also sometimes perpetuates hurtful and/or outdated narratives and stereotypes.

Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory plays a straight guy aswell
to say that Sheldon as a character is your average joe on the street (doesnt drink isnt horny all the time ,doesnt want to chase the woman of his dreams ) thats silly.
do i mind it ?...LOL no
why would I and what reason should I have.
i read your Edit so dont think im attaking you .but the real answer to this in my opinion is " the comic that you read didnt meet your standards (which is perfectly fine) but that doesnt mean its a bad comic.
maybe it is for you but everyone has their own little world they are imagining and are trying to put on paper.
I dont see a reason to try and take that away.
Some girls are straight and they write about BL or GL
same goes for the guys
if you dont like it...you dont like it.
you go and find the comic you think will suite your taste.

[Bears]

. On a side note about "sinning". Again, please do not take it seriously. Sin is a way for people to make fun of THEMSELVES and be hilarious about it for drawing something that if they show their parents, would receive a spanking.

When people say they have a problem with this, it's not that using the term "sinning" jokingly is wrong, it's when people specifically call gay ships sinful. Also, while you must be tired of people saying this to you, I have to point out that the sinning thing, as well as "I love my gays/queer babies/etc" is something that makes lgbt+ relationships seem more like sexual things and/or objects. So it's not using words like "sinful," it's more about how it's used to describe LGBT+ people.

[efdvorsky]

Isn'tSheldonsupposedtobeheteroacetho?

Just going to say, that right now straights shouldn't try to be "excusing themselves" from their stories, this is kind of wrong. This is not the time to take things personal or play the blame game.

Please listen to concerns, you're an artist/writer.

You have a lot of power and you're expressing how you may see the world and how groups see themselves through certain works. Think about the groups you are representing and what it can mean in subtext and history, and how it reflects on the real world we all live in.

If you're diving into objectification or some problematic aspect that has dehumanized these groups, ask yourself why you came to this conclusion. What sociological and psychological aspects made it seem right. The same goes for any stereotype and cliche in writing characters from oppressed groups. It's not "about being PC", it's treating people like people.

Yes, there are good "BL/GLs", it can be a guilty pleasure, "my gay friend likes it" but not one person represents or speaks for the entire group. This goes for both opinions of the spectrum in this discussion.

Yes, you can always close the tab and keep creating useful and educating content, but it's important to talk about the problems too.

Please read, please educate yourself, please study an aspect you are not familiar with, and please respect groups that have been and still are trying to find themselves through all the hate and discrimination. We can be better than this.

[lunaartemisasama]

I like BL, GL. But as much as I like it I am full aware that real life gay or lesbians are not actually like that and that most of these stories are just cliches ( I wouldn't even say they use stereotypes because, again, it's fictional).
I think it is good as long as people understand that it is not real. I don't think it depends of the gender or sexuality of the author, but it's more about knowing the difference between fiction and RL.

[Down_the_Rabbithole]

Sticking my head back in here just because.

I'd like to point out that I think you over estimate how much power a comic writer has. We have no more power than any other average human being has. Though many of us like to believe that we're going to change the world with what we write, we only appeal to a small subgroup of people. That being said, the people who read BL are a subgroup of a subgroup, typically hormone-ridden teens. The writers aren't trying to make good fiction; they're appealing their admittedly creepy fantasies. So, I don't think a whole lot of people make up their mind about LGBT people from trashy romance about them. Teens grow up to learn the difference between fiction and reality.

Before anyone says anything, I'm just trying to see the problem from both sides. I bet LGBT people are sick of the same old crap and I don't want to see the same old things either. The biggest problem here is bad writing skills. If these were hetero relationships being written, they'd be just as crap. And if I've learned anything from the internet, the only way to help diminish the crap is to laugh at it. If someone gets angry at the writer, they just double down and keep making crap. That's human nature. If you laugh, they're more likely to take a good look at their work or else stop it. No guarantees, but in my experience, the more you laugh at something, the less power it has. Not to mention it's healthier for you.

[efdvorsky]

I get what you're saying that it's not like we have the power to change the world, but you're right. We have power, like any human being, but this is still a power that can reach people. We're storytellers, we're communicators. You do have the power to impact people in some way. Haven't you ever read something, no matter how simple, that it changed you in some way? Be it positive or negative? Not everyone can achieve this, but it's still something that can be powerful in its own right.

I personally love to surround myself with artistic work that moves and changes me. I reject things that wouldn't work for me, but I won't deny someone's voice to speak about it if it bothers them. They have just as much right, and even more so, I think, if we exist in a culture that silences them.

There's power in words, in action, and in creation, and all I'm saying it to consider the subtext and the impact it can have on impressionable people rather than keep feeding something that is problematic. Just because it's "for teens" doesn't mean it's 100% excusable. And again, it's ok to try and view things on both sides, but let's not forget there are sides that are silenced, so--from my own experience--they take my priority, tbh.

I do agree laughing at it is a good solution, though. It works for you, it works for me. But not everyone.

But tbh I have no plans on replying on this forum post anymore, I already gave my two cents of 'please just be considerate', and I won't play the same tune 100 times.

[Down_the_Rabbithole]

I thank you for answering as respectfully as you did. We're always going to have different opinions on the subject, but I'm glad you handled it like you did.

I don't like the "for teens" excuse either. Anyone remember Twilight? That was that steaming pile's excuse for existing. Teenage girls ate it up like chocolate. I should know, I was one of them. As I got older, I learned how crap it was and many others did too. I believe it's the same story with BL, having known Yaoi obsessed fangirls who have since grown out of it and don't see gay men as objects. I consider the "for teens" thing pandering and manipulative. The bright side is that they grow out of it and realize "that doesn't work that way".

As for anyone who feels down about this stuff, chin up. Even if you feel like the entire world hates you, there's at least one person who likes you. Hell, I'll give anyone the chance to be my friend if you need one. I don't discriminate. Meeting new people helps me, too.

[9outofPen]

You make a very good point, that's not cool if reading an LGBT webcomic makes you uncomfortable as an LGBT person. After identifying as asexual and analyzing representation in mainstream media, realistic portrayal of characters has become more important to me. There are some series and yaois I refuse to read now because of poor/fetishised/hurtfrul representation.

[GesuGesu]

To clarify, if this is of any importance to the discussion: I am not cisgender or heterosexual. Yes I am female, biologically.

I enjoy BL. I enjoy the crazy illogical fantasy of it and I can just turn off my brain for the entertainment. I write BL along similar lines with the full intention of writing dumb boys in love/banging other boys kind of stories. Occasionally I enjoy serious LGBT romances, but I prefer light-hearted out-of-touch-with-reality stories.

However, I separate reality and fiction quite strictly. I'm aware that homosexual relationships are difficult in nature. I know proper procedures before anal sex require cleaning, lube, and stretching. "STICK IT IN WITHOUT ANY PREP" is funny to me only in fiction. It's painful IRL, hahaha.

[Cricketreadscomics]

i don't create or consume bl and i don't have a take on it but
I'm just really happy that ppl are having this conversation.

[Cricketreadscomics]

this topic is from 2 years ago lol