Sub for sub is shallow and worthless

[skicoak]

But yes, sub for sub has always been just busywork and it makes no sense to do it on a forum as small as this.

Not singling you out @rajillustration, your quote was just closest to link to...

The larger issue is the site has tied various opportunities and monetized goals to subscriber counts. I'm not a fan of sub to sub but it's more of a side effect of the site mechanics than anything.

[orbitkatart]

I've been thinking about this topic for the last few days and the more I thought about it, the more heated I became and I had to get it all out. Partially as a rant to others and partially as a way to tell this to myself because I often need to remind myself of some of these points especially when I get down in the dumps..
It is in fact also on reddit on r/unpopularopinion because I want to see more opinions on this haha

[rajillustration]

oh yeah, big agree on that one, especially when they just give away the ability to receive ink every Inktober.

[therosesword]

Pretty much says it all.

[ar-ninetysix]

..Yeah, we know this already. We made several threads ranting about it before, and it doesn't stop people from making new sub-for-sub topics so like..?? Whatever lol

Real talk, I'm kinda over this. No one's really adding anything to the conversation, and everybody's just regurgitating the same sentiment over and over. We get it. Sub-for-sub is hollow, the numbers aren't real, the subs are barely readers, but hey, numbers go brrrr..

Could someone please instead recommend how to improve your online presence so that your comic or novel looks more appealing?? The whole process of posting episodes of a comic or novel goes deeper than just hitting upload and post, and I really wish people would actually try to help instead of just complaining and advising against a trend that doesn't work.

[Nen]

I think you've made a solid point but tbh a part of me is thinking that while it's incentivised to get higher sub counts. Sub for Sub is so inefficient and people still do it which to me seems more an issue of ego than anything else

[boondogggle]

I hate it when I get offered a sub for sub and agree because I'm bad at saying no, but I don't even like their comic, so then I'm subbed to a comic until the end of time that I never even read. ._.

[orbitkatart]

I know all the glitter of internet fame and glistening same-y looking series promoted in the front page has blinded us, making us to desire more of the glory. But in the end of the day, why we cannot just tell a story that people enjoy?

Absolutely this. Unfortunately it is the very nature of social media and content aggregator sites/apps that promote a frantic obsession with just the numbers themselves.

Shouldn't we be creating for the sake of creating? And because we love doing it?

[Nen]

You know there are tons of resources out there to help with this that you can read. I think at least one mod has posted a thread on this and frankly there are countless twitter threads, tumblr threads, youtube videos and legally freely available and not so legally available books explaining design and brand management. Fuck Steak-umm runs an account that basically does that on twitter and so does the Fall Guys brand manager Oliver Age 24. We should probably be harder on a persistent situation than worry about something that we can find millions of solutions to

[thedude3445]

I think it's worthwhile. I've found a few nice comics that I would never have read just because they were in my reading list from sub-for-subs, such as @mcarrowolga's stories. Yeah, the vast majority I will probably never end up reading, but I'll never read the vast majority of stuff in my reading list regardless, so that's probably OK.

[Nen]

It really pulls you down cause you think you're doing something wrong when you don't include yourself in these especially if everything else just isn't working due to a lack of luck. I get the pain

[orbitkatart]

I tend to see sub for sub situations with those who are early in their art journey. It's not always the case but it's more common. Not to mention, art is very subjective and people perceive quality differently.

[orbitkatart]

Sometimes I wonder what goes on in people's minds when they do it though

[vothnthorvaldson]

I personally think 'dead' (ie people not liking or commenting) sub for sub is useless and never do that; however I'm not ok at all that one has to focus on non-artist readers.
Not everyone has ambitions to become professional. Not all artists are asking for validation in a unhealthy way.
Subs from artists are very helpful to me and I never got into arguments over ego or exagerate susceptibility.

[orbitkatart]

Spend the rest of your life trying to forge relationships one by one or throw a bunch of money at advertisers. I think the truth of how to solve the problem is too depressing to make a topic over.
Besides, there's is no solution, or else it wouldn't be a problem. Not to mention not all solutions will work for everyone.

Also, I've never seen this topic cause I'm fairly new on here so shame on me

[orbitkatart]

If you're bad at saying no, just don't say anything and pretend you do not see it

[ar-ninetysix]

I get where you're coming from, but that doesn't exactly fix the issue either lol

Wouldn't it just be better to make this sort of information more common knowledge for those stepping into the realm? If that persistent situation is emerges out of people not being aware of these solutions to begin with, wouldn't the situation be bound to come up again? If you get rid of sub-for-sub, people are still going to be left with that need to find a way to get more attention and they'll come up with an alternative for it. That's partially why read-for-read came up as another variation of the trend (I believe so anyways, could be wrong)

[DiegoPalacios]

Could someone please instead recommend how to improve your online presence so that your comic or novel looks more appealing?? The whole process of posting episodes of a comic or novel goes deeper than just hitting upload and post, and I really wish people would actually try to help instead of just complaining and advising against a trend that doesn't work.

Like this idea.....i would create a topic with tips i learned from advertising, but first, wanna do it myself to prove it's efectiveness.....

Still gonna upgrade the art of some older pages to be fully presentable for marketing purposes

[skicoak]

Sub for Sub is so inefficient and people still do it which to me seems more an issue of ego than anything else

I made this point in a debate long ago but it's worth repeating...

There's something fundamentally wrong in making subs a goal for reaching the various monetization goals but the more concerning issue is their usage as a status point. We're being trained to look at subscribers/looks/likes before we, at no real risk, look at the actual series.

[orbitkatart]

That's true but I definitely see those seeking validation in unhealthy ways more and is why it's the focus in my rant. But it was not my intention to box all artists into this, but it is at least a loud majority