Surprise LGBT characters

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

Maybe it jarring for OP because it fanservice, but not aimed at his demographic. Like if old favorite TV show suddenly have excessive amounts of female gaze for no good reason. Camera now linger on Data's perfectly-smooth android buttocks. Camera angle now too low when Riker step over chair. That sort of thing. Too many shots of hairy, bare-chested Worf. Too many scenes of Geordi crawling sweatily through Jeffrey's tube.

[Inspector_Spinda]

I would go against that since most romance stories (be it gay or otherwise) are horrible depictions of romanceI would say try and see how people you know go about romance, like how did they get started, how do they act with each other, how do they keep it a float, just because they are gay doesn't mean they go about romance wildly differently than straight people.

or at least that's what I have seen with my cousin and her wife (they treat each other the same way my sister and her husband treat each other with mutual understanding and love)

very true. im not that silly i know this x'D

honestly i think maybe the romance genre may be accurate because i can't think of one couple i know in real life that doesn't drive each other insane. T_T it's the worst and exhausting. i think ill just read some good romance and go with my gut

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

Me get it now: The problem am when characters develop sexual dimension when they previously lacked any sexuality at all. Not only that, but it sexual dimension that OP not identify with or find attractive.

Now, genre shifts like this can be done well, but mebbe OP am reacting to instances when they am not being done well or for the right reasons.

[Inspector_Spinda]

lmao. perhaps. (20 character min)

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

It like that fanfic me once read where they revived Are You Afraid of the Dark? using all the original child actors.

[lwflouisa]

What seems to be the key thing here is setting it up before hand. Excluding things like prologue, that may or may not be about the same MCs.

[darthmongoose]

Okay so.... I find it interesting that this subject is brought up for LGBT relationships but apparently nobody has noticed that the straight version of this has been happening for years.
When you grow up as a lesbian in the closet, you inevitably start to notice this trend where a heroine who seems totally disinterested in guys, maybe she's just devoted to her quest, maybe she has really intense (but assuredly platonic) feelings for her female best friend and then suddenly she'll get a really boring male love interest shoehorned in there, or by the end she'll be partnered off with any available male character, or they'll get a romance scene and get together before the final boss after going through the entire story with no more chemistry than any two friends.

Seriously, I don't see how this is ANY different and I think it's pretty funny that after years of me being like "ugh come on, I was really enjoying this story til the heroine randomly got paired with some dude, now she's hard to relate to" and having straight people say, "oh deal with it, not everything has to cater to you, most girls like boys, I thought they were good together" we get a tiny trickle of the same thing happening in a non-straight context and suddenly it's an issue.

Is it bad and lazy writing with problematic implications? Yeah it is, but cishet stories have been doing this for years with little complaint from people, because it was just treated as perfectly reasonable that the noble hero got rewarded with a hot girl out of nowhere, but oh if the noble hero wants a hot boy out of nowhere, or the noble hero is a lady and gets a hot girl now suddenly it's different? It's still pandering, it's just you notice it more when it's not pandering to you.

[DokiDokiTsuna]

Is it bad and lazy writing with problematic implications? Yeah it is, but cishet stories have been doing this for years with little complaint from people, because it was just treated as perfectly reasonable that the noble hero got rewarded with a hot girl out of nowhere, but oh if the noble hero wants a hot boy out of nowhere, or the noble hero is a lady and gets a hot girl now suddenly it's different?

Y'know, I'm...pretty sure people have noticed and complained about that trope for a long time, especially considering the sexist implications of a female character being used as a 'reward'.

It's not 'suddenly' different. It's just that the heteronormative version of the trope is so old and tired that it's already general knowledge that it's a bad idea. Meanwhile, LGBT pandering is the new, fresh, hip thing to do, so new "inclusive" versions of the same dumb romance tropes are suddenly becoming part of the public consciousness. And thus, the complaints rise anew.

I think that was the point of the OP...it's not that it's bad or worse because of the LGBT inclusion, it's just that that happens to be the form that these bad decisions are taking. And somehow writers think it's okay to make those bad decisions just because the characters come from different communities, and/or because it'll get them attention from readers who don't care, as long as they get "representation".

[TenSenses]

I hear people complain about it, regardless if it’s cishet or not. It’s one of the most notorious ways to ruin a story out there, yet so many bad writers keep doing it

[AbelDraws]

I don't think I'll be able to add a lot to this topic, but hey, here's my grain of sand.

Firstly I have to say I can't really judge how badly it's done without reading the comics, so I can only base my judgement on your posts.

Most would agree that a romance that has no buildup at all and doesn't fit the story is never good, it's just bad writing. I would dislike it, but it depends on how badly it's performed.

The "problem" here seems to be that it's an LGBT romance, and I'm not very fond of that point of view.

If an LGBT ship suddenly happened in the story and it was VERY obvious it's just to attract new readers ... That's not something I'm a big fan of, but heck, people have been adding straight ships just to please readers in movies and series all the time that made me cry inside. It's still not good, but not worse than the forced straight couples (+ we get some representation so that's cool).

Like, I see why it's not cool to have a ship forced into the story when there's no chemistry, but I fail to see why it's worse than a straight ship.

On the other hand, if a character is just revealed to be LGBT then I don't see the problem (I'm talking about the third story you mentioned).

anyways they've since split and one is in a LGBT romance and the other mentions he may be LGBT to another character also recently revealed to be LGBT

It's just character info, as long as it doesn't affect the story badly I don't think it's bad that there's some representation. Again, I haven't read the comic, maybe the situation is handled horribly and the reveal didn't fit the situation at all, but the issue there would be the author's bad writing, not the fact that they're LGBT.

Anyway, I think romance should always be handled with as much care as any other narrative/subplot. I dislike forced romances, but many people tend to always see LGBT ships as forced and out of place and that's a mindset I'd like to see disappear as the years go on. There's way more LGBT romance than some years ago, but that's because it's safer and easier to do so. If there's a forced LGBT ship they should be given the same treatment as if they were a forced straight ship. The same way, if you want to make a good LGBT romance, treat it the same way as any other romance and take notes of the things you disliked about how they handled it in those comics c:

I really hope this made sense. Good luck <3 and I hope those comics overcome the awkward reveals and handle things better in the next updates

[AWFrasier]

you warn them by leaving hits inside the story, you foreshadow it, even something as simple as the character looking at the other sex or something else. if readers don't see it coming or can't go back and reread the comic and find hints of it, then you are doing it wrong.Or at least that my writing philosophy

A lot of readers are very willing to overlook anything queer until they no longer can't. (Like when the characters finally kiss) Until then they're just super duper close friends. Not even kidding, it's a pretty annoying issue and it makes it hard to make content with queer characters because one side will continue to say it's too explicit - another will say it's not explicit enough.

Don't mean to say the romance itself is the issue. as ive said some of the romance is quite good and i do enjoy it. but something about multiple characters being stated to be LGBT suddenly in succession makes it seem cheap.

We travel in packs. Not even gonna lie, we do. The chances of more than one person in a group being queer is a lot bigger than there being just one. It's not just a safety thing, it's a comfort thing. The queer experience comes with a lot of added things, both good and bad, and being around other people who just understand without having to have it explained is so comforting.

As a queer person, I'd find it more weird for a queer character to only hang out with cis/hets and never mingle with other queer peeps. It must be very very lonely. I know it has been for me.

[KRWright]

SURPRISE BITCHES IM GAY

But also - this is why I make damn sure people know the characters are LGBTQ because anyone who is going to be bothered by it isn’t my target audience.

[baasinsimple]

Dude, I'm pretty sure they're not homophobic, they're boggled by the lack of build up. That's just bad writing.

[baasinsimple]

People are talking about "Warning their readers" or whatever, but that's not what your doing. It's called build up. It's a basic literary method used by literally everyone. It helps establish continuity for your story. It's like ya'll are completely ignoring that what @Inspector_Spinda is probably bothered by is how cheap a sudden development like that feels.
The Idea of surprise romances in general, straight or otherwise is stupid. You know what a lack a build up is called? Amateurish writing. You plant seeds throughout the story, emotionally investing people in this character, and that means every part of this character. You do it before it's relevant so people know that this is an element from the get go that's going to be important to the character. Honestly if something like that isn't planned in the story, and wasn't intended in the first place,(thematically, romantically or otherwise) it's just pandering. Kind of like how shounen gag manga from the 80s started copying Fist of The North Star because they saw how popular it was
.
Like, people, read a book and look at how every element of the story is built up towards the climax. I'm kind of disappointed some of you guys didn't figure out sooner that this is more than applicable towards just about everything in the story and how a surprise reveal of any kind that isn't well constructed years later after the run starts can actually just damage the quality of a story. Cause I know a lot of people on this thread are smarter than that.

[TAMAnnoying]

I hear people complain about it, regardless if it’s cishet or not. It’s one of the most notorious ways to ruin a story out there, yet so many bad writers keep doing it

Oki guys!!! Let’s talk about the most recent “cis” Pairing our their that got WAY more backlash then deserved (cause the movie was already kind of trash)

https://hitek.fr/img/up_o/98197361/hitek_1918bb516f08a561c5cb3539c74b3b4d_1560418615.jpeg

Why do people hat black widow and hulk????

Is it cause all of the people who like these movies are gay and they feel like their LGTB movies are shoving in Straight representation?? Or is it cause it happened at random with NO buildup and the only build up anyone ever go for being in a relationship was cap and widow?

It’s cause everyone is upset that it happened compleatly out of no where!

As readers/watchers we like it when the stories allow us to figure things out- we like hits we like a little bit of a puzzle box. Literally the only reason these two started dating was cause it was >subversive< they wanted to surprise the audience cause most comic book fans know widow and cap got a thing going on.

So yeah..... people got fucking upset and it was the only thing people would complain about for being “bad” for two damn years (even tho the rest of the movie is also kind of poo but nah it’s JUST the shitty romance that had no reason to exisit)

Sorry anger about age of ultron Over- point is most people don’t hate LGBT rep cause it’s LGBT they hate it cause it’s pandering and feels forced- just like most people hate when a Cis relationship happens out of no where and feels force even tho the main female/male character seemed perfectly happy without a love interest.

[FenneFox]

I'd argue the issue, as you pointed out, is how it's brought up. In the way your mentioning, how they just suddenly appear around page 200 with little to no prefacing, I'd argue it seems more like pandering. Frankly, I'd say it's annoying no matter whether they are LGBT or not. At the very least, begin some build up before rushing into the relationship, even if it isn't from the beginning, as a good relationship could make for good entertainment.

[Jenny-Toons]

Basically this. Whether or not it's LGBT or straight isn't the point. It's how phoned in it is.

Bleach for example -- Ichigo ended up marrying Orihime with no real build up to that ever happening on his end. Yeah, she loved him romantically, but we barely saw anything similar from him. But apparently him blushing around her is enough to say he loved her.

It's stupid.

Personally, you ought to change this topic to "Stupid Last Minute Romances".

Because that's essentially what this topic is, and stories with both LGBT and/or straight MCs suffer from this.

It ain't just LGBT -- It just feels like that because more stories with LGBT characters have been more frequent now and suffer from this bad writing. But this has been happening for a while.

If romance wasn't clued in from the bulk of the story, and there's no build up, don't try to include it now.

[33rdCenturyCaveman]

It not help that in real life, romance am not the epic struggle that it is in fiction. If two people am compatible it happen quite easily. There am no war of opposites, no external circumstances to overcome. Like, from perspective of our coworkers, ex and I suddenly became couple with no buildup whatsoever.

[IdiotWithPencil]

honestly i think maybe the romance genre may be accurate because i can't think of one couple i know in real life that doesn't drive each other insane. T_T it's the worst and exhausting. i think ill just read some good romance and go with my gut

well if you are open to a recommendation, the only romance I have ever seen that dose it kind of right is hazy London.
there are no crazy love triangles or dramatically over the top reveals it's just two people having to deal with relationship problems
and conveniently it's about gay couples

[IdiotWithPencil]

Okay so.... I find it interesting that this subject is brought up for LGBT relationships but apparently nobody has noticed that the straight version of this has been happening for years.

oh, we have noticed, we have talked to death about it, the problem I have seen with the LGBT one is that the moment somebody tries to point out it's phoned in or seems badly handled, people come out to defend it or to dismiss the OP as having problems with gays. just look at this thread for an example.