T/F: 'There's no such thing as bad writing'

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[Lensing]

I only read first person POV novels

[NickRowler]

I think there is writing which people call bad and might pick apart to point out every little flaw. Yet there are tons of people who still enjoy it. They don’t care about smaller issues about the writing because maybe there is a larger charm about the it that captures the interest of tons of people.

However, there is writing which is objectively bad. It is not well written and anyone who does enjoy it is more for ironic reasons. I think of things like The Room, Cool Cat, Star Wars Holiday Special, or anything by Neil Breen.

[BellaTheCow]

Well I say false only because I’ve observed that it isn’t the story itself that is ever considered “bad” rather it’s the way that it is conveyed (as in perhaps poor grammer or failure to adequately describe the situation or subject of the story ) that might( idk if this is always the case) lead a reader to say that a story is considered “bad”.

This is actually a really interesting distinction...so if the way the writer describes the subjects of the story and the situations in the story isn't the 'story itself'...what IS the story itself??

All that's left outside of the telling would be the vague idea behind it...and I think the claim 'there's no such thing as a bad story idea' might actually have some merit. Like, when I say 'anything can work if you make it work'; that's basically the same thing, right?

The story itself I believe are the actual events and subjects being described and it is the way that it is described that can make a story become considered “bad” or “good”. Therefore that is why I have come to the conclusion thus far that there is no such thing as a bad story idea rather just failure to convey the idea properly.

So, again, not a bad story, just maybe a difficulty on communicating the idea is all that I’ll consider when considering a story “bad” or needing improvement.

Edit:
Of course in the case where the grammar is not correct because the author is new to the English language then all grammar errors are immediately excused in my case because I can only imagine how difficult it must be to write in an entirely different language.

Note: again, this is my opinion and it will change according to what is eventually found to be correct moving forward. Thank you for your understanding.

[BellaTheCow]

These are some very interesting points to consider. @NickRowler

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[BellaTheCow]

Omg! I actually didn’t really realize what @DokiDokiTsuna was trying to convey to me. This is an excellent point @DokiDokiTsuna of course it’s true that the context of the story would change if told a different way. My apologies for the misunderstanding and not considering this truth earlier.

Again, my opinion changes with what is found to be correct of this subject as I am still learning much.

@DokiDokiTsuna @BreeBaxter

[BellaTheCow]

It’s true the chaos is real. 🤣 @BreeBaxter

[cherrystark]

Wow, congrats on perfectly demonstrating your idea of bad writing while describing it. Bravo, truly next level commitment!

To be fair, that's why I said execution! The "trend" right now is to alternate POV between your leads. As a reader, I've always had trouble with the sudden shifting of voices. The story then gets even more muddied when the writer starts throwing in the POV of random side characters. With enemies-to-lovers, they almost always hate each other because of some over exaggerated misunderstanding or some generic rule like "We have the Capulets because we're Montagues".

The writer could shift their storytelling execution and explore the same story just in a different way. Like imagine a modern day adaptation Romeo and Juliet told from the cast's collected social media posts, private diaries, and videos stored on the cloud. It's still the same story, it's just executed in an interesting way instead of defaulting to a basic execution.

[2DLenzy]

The story is The chicken crosses the road and whether it's a gritty thriller or a rom-com about chickens falling in love

Whoa, woah WOAH! That's a summation of my Season 3 XD

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[aquashark]

judging weather writing is good or not is impossible to do, bad writing does not exists however things like lazy writing or simple writing do. However lazy writing and simple writing isn't necessarily bad, sometimes simple pieces of writing are easy to understand and follow then complex writing is. On the other hand lazy writing (as much as it can be avoided) doesn't make the writing bad either.

however there are times were you can definitely say that the writing is bad and the way you tell is by checking the amount of plot holes a story has. If a story manages to amass a ton of plot holes then the writing is basically like Swiss cheese, it may taste good in some parts. But there is less to consume. That's why i personally fill in all my plot holes as much as I can.

i guess the entire point is that writing is only bad when the story is only good at "some parts" i want to read stories that may have some iffy episodes or arcs but overall is good.

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[Tubacabra]

judging weather writing is good or not is impossible to do, bad writing does not exists however things like lazy writing or simple writing do. However lazy writing and simple writing isn't necessarily bad, sometimes simple pieces of writing are easy to understand and follow then complex writing is. On the other hand lazy writing (as much as it can be avoided) doesn't make the writing bad either.

however there are times were you can definitely say that the writing is bad and the way you tell is by checking the amount of plot holes a story has. If a story manages to amass a ton of plot holes then the writing is basically like Swiss cheese, it may taste good in some parts. But there is less to consume. That's why i personally fill in all my plot holes as much as I can.

i guess the entire point is that writing is only bad when the story is only good at "some parts" i want to read stories that may have some iffy episodes or arcs but overall is good.

Unfinished sentences, incorrect verb tenses, comma splices, missing capitalization and punctuation... Isn't this a prime example of bad writing? Also, thank you for the lesson in meteorology.

Just for clarification, I mean no offense. I just felt that this was ironic and worth a laugh. As a reader, I absolutely loathe plot holes. (Part of the reason why I will never watch Avengers: End Game again). I like swiss cheese, but not in stories.

[aquashark]

'Bad writing doesn't exist, but lazy writing does.' Wait, aren’t we just... redefining bad writing as lazy here? If lazy writing is avoidable and you still let it happen, that doesn’t count as bad? Plot hole #1, ladies and gentlemen.

'Lazy writing isn't necessarily bad, though.' Oh, we’re flip-flopping now? Lazy writing can exist but isn’t bad... except when it is? Plot hole #2, this one’s got layers.

for this entire part I'm just trying to get across that no matter what categories you use they can be seen as both good and bad, I'm countering my own point on purpose because it is generally impossible to call writing good or bad using those categories.

'Sometimes simple writing is better than complex writing.' Okay, I'll buy that... but simple ≠ lazy. So, where are we even going with this argument? We’re swerving all over the place! Plot hole #3.

I didn't necessarily say that simple writing is the same as lazy writing. It isn't and I personally love simple stories. and to add to my point before I'm addressing that you cant call simple writing bad nor good.

'Plot holes are the real problem.' Right... so we’re saying that writing can have shaky structure, bad tone, or lifeless characters, but if the plot holds up, we're A-OK? Really? Plot hole #4, my friends.

This is very interesting. I believe that lifeless characters, shaky structure and bad tones are what makes plot holes. Each of them can be overlooked on their own. They wont make the story that much worse but when put together they kind of create the plot holes themselves. Like when a character shows one emotion once but then the character becomes lifeless afterwards, this would be an example of both a shaky structure and lifeless characters. However if we removed the shaky structure and it went into more depth on why the character is showing said emotion it gets rid of the plot hole and can be somewhat overlooked.

and on the bad tones part I'm assuming you mean tones that don't exactly fit with what is happening in the story. (correct me if I'm wrong.) To be honest a bad use of tones can be incredibly bad but i believe a shaky structure and bad tones go hand in hand. When the tones are bed it can ruin the stories structure.

a really interesting argument though. let me know what you think.

[aquashark]

punctuation is big but it does not exactly take away from the story. I read a lot of novels that have slip ups and as long as the structure is there and the characters are well written enough then unless the sentences are completely missing it can be overlooked easily. I believe in this context we are considering bad writing as in how well you can tell a story and not how well you can use punctuation and grammar.

It is very true that reading a story with lots of bad punctuation and grammar can be a pain though.

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[Cass]

I picked false because it is possible for the writing to be really bad. Let's say the story is all over the place and the events do't match up. Or the grammar is terrible. Then you wouldn't want to read it at all.

[aquashark]

grammar being terrible isn't too bad, if its unreadable fair enough but when you can fill in the lines it doesn't take away much from the experience. I agree with events not matching up though.