Tapastic community too nice? (WARNING: Long rant)

[AffectedMind]

Tapastic is too nice

I was thinking a lot whether I should post this or not. This is something that has been bothering me for a very long time. My experience on Tapastic so far is good, despite all the hiccups from the technical side, people have been nice and supportive. I grew quite big during this time, which is nice! I have fun interacting with my readers and the community in general. However I noticed something very troubling recently.

The Tapastic community is too nice.

Now, I’m not telling you to start being assholes, that’s not my point. The issue is, criticism is endangered around here. There was a few topics when people criticized other’s work on demand. Trying their best to help the other artists improve, like explain what is good and what needs to be fixed, and that’s awesome. Sometimes I see someone is requesting the critique and no one wants to do it. Why? Is the art so bad you don’t want to say it? Is the writing so atrocious that you don’t want to hurt the feelings of the person who made it? Or maybe no one felt like reviewing it?

That’s what criticism is all about. When you like something, talk about it! See something is off? Don’t be afraid to point it out! I used to be very fragile when I was criticized. I didn’t want to hear the opinions of others but, years later I found myself thinking “Hey, those people were right, my work isn’t the best and I need to improve”. Even if it’s harsh, even if it will bring you to tears, you need to stand up and say “I can do better”. There are many artists that stagnate for years. Were they just patted on the back all the time? Or simply were rejecting all the advice they got? I can say from experience it’s the criticism that stuck with me through all the years, while the formal compliments felt nice but, ultimately got lost in the clamour.

If you genuinely like someone’s work, great! Praise it to the heavens! Nice comments are always a motivation to keep going but, if you see something needs improving or is simply bad, point it out, don’t make up pretty lies. Think twice before you “comment on the one above”.

As an addendum, don’t mistake criticism for hate. If someone gives you directions and use argumentation you should think about it. It can’t hurt to reflect.

That was just something I wanted to get off my chest.

Don’t take any of this personal, please. These are simply my observations regarding some behaviours on the forum.

[SpavVy]

I agree with this, criticism is rather scarce around here from what I've seen, yeah, it hurts sometimes but people need to know what needs to be worked on so they can improve. Sure a pat on the back and saying "nice job" is encouraging to keep going but at the same time I think we need to be a bit more...well...honest.

[neilkohney]

I understand and appreciate the sentiment. But the Tapastic community is so uniquely kind, and I don't think that's something we want to lose. We can go to so many other sites to get a real criticism (or overtly negative feedback). But it can be a slippery slope. I'd rather have one site that's a little too nice, than see Tapastic become like everywhere else.

[FixerTheWise]

Let's all pat eachother on the back!

[shazzbaa]

I'd strongly recommend the article "I Will Not Read Your F***ing Script" (warning, profanity) for some thoughts on criticism and why it cannot be expected. I think it's a really good insight!
Sometimes, when people ask for critique or reviews or help, I have the time and I will do everything I can to offer it! A single critique post takes me HOURS, and when someone says "wow, thank you, this helps so much!" all those hours are definitely worth it!! And I really appreciate everyone who's taken the time to tell me it was helpful for them. ;u; But I can't do that for every comic that posts here, and neither can the others -- we all have comics to draw!

If someone says "hey, read my comic and tell me what you think, thanks" they are asking for tons of effort on my part without making any effort themselves, and that's what bothers me about critique in the community here. I'll occasionally see "I'm having trouble with the anatomy here, can someone help me, what am I missing?" or "I feel like my opening chapter's pacing is too slow, what do you guys think?" and that's cool!! Even "I'm new to comics, what am I doing right? What could I be doing better?" is a direct request for critique that I'll offer my thoughts on if I'm able!
But I'm not going to pour hours into an in-depth and thought-out review if the person may or may not actually want critique.

Also important to consider: Critique is not helpful to someone who doesn't want it! Pruning is useful for plants but it has to be at the right time or you'll snip off all their flowers. If a thread is "comment on the above" then no, I'm not gonna give them an in-depth (or critical) critique, because no one there has asked for it and I don't know if they want it. Unsolicited critique is rude and unhelpful. The part about "don't cast your pearls before swine" that a lot of people don't think about is that if someone doesn't value or have use for pearls, then you'd just be throwing rocks at them, no matter how helpful you think you are.

So, I will certainly be honest and give the best and most thought-out critique that I can if someone has asked for it and I have the time to offer it. ;u; But I'm not gonna assume that my critique is so great and important that you should want it whether you've asked for it or not! If the Tapastic Community wants to foster greater and more in-depth critique, it needs to make spaces for that kind of critique because you can't just drop it in anywhere, and there needs to be more than the effortless, "hey, read my comic, let me know what you think" that casually assumes that thought-out critique is not a big endeavour!

[FixerTheWise]

Back in the IB days, I was told I had street-cred for having thick skin when being critisized. I think it's sad that being able to hear other's oppinions and taking away what you need from it, is a special quality, especialy on the internet srsly..

[Michelle]

I agree, though I generally don't give critique unless someone asks for feedback. Even then it can be hard to critique a comic, because there's just so many points to hit... so if someone wants feedback on a single page, or a specific issue like anatomy, perspective, dialogue etc, it's a lot easier to give meaningful feedback. I was actually thinking of opening an in-depth critique thread for that sort of thing :>

And of course, an honest critique is different from just being mean. People can still be very nice while still giving their honest opinion. Someone giving out mean criticisms just to get a rise out of the creator is just being tactless or a jerk ;c though it's also important to learn how to deal with those types, too.

[mariusthered]

Criticism leads to chalk outlines !

just kidding!

maybe!

[quakeulf]

Constructive critisism must be encouraged at all costs, though.

What this means is if you see something that could be better and you can argue for it so that it becomes convincing, it will give benefits regardless. An example is taking the effort to colour correct someone's page and give a detailed list of steps on how to proceed when doing this. I've sadly seen too many coloured pages that could do with a bit of levels/hue/saturation/brightness/contrast/colour balance/sharpness adjustments to really stand out. However, I don't know the people doing this so I will refrain from commenting on specifics.

[FixerTheWise]

The problem is with this preception you have of critique, that if it's unsolicited it's rude... NO IT'S NOT! Hate and troll comments are rude.

The worst fair reaction to a criticue would be. "Thank you for taking the time to write this up. I'll consider the things you said" That's it end of story.

I just find it really annoying this narcisistic thinking: Oh, someone didn't praise me? What an asshole.

Just because someone isn't super nice, doesn't mean they are rude or insulting. It's not a binary of absolutes.

[AffectedMind]

I once responded in the "comment on the one above topic" I pointed out things I like and things that need to be fixed. It wasn't a deep critique, it doesn't have to be long. That artist later tried to fix it and she's working hard to improve. It's not much and it helps. I didn't say GO MY MINIONS! CRITICIZE EVERYONE'S WORK! No, just do it when you have time to do it, when you are passing by. Like I said earlier "don't make up pretty lies".

[TheVoidchildProject]

I've not been on the Tapastic community long enough to have an informed opinion about whether it's too nice or not, by the way you describe it. But I want to put in my vote for constructive criticism. I honestly think it's mor let important where development is concerned than praise, which is also nice of course. But for me personally I'm at a stage where I want to improve my work and anything that'll help me do so is welcome.

[carloswebcomic]

I think what is happening here is that people are trying really, really hard not to become other webcomic "communities" where creators would gang up to bitch and troll others. Trolling was all the rage in the early 2000's and by golly the webcomic community was on the cutting edge of that trend.

Sure, I see a lot of "your comic is great, keep updating and you'll get more subs" when the better advise would've been to point out the obvious problems the comic had. But then again, it's better to encourage than to discourage.

Yeah, sometime the niceness gets on my nerves, but frankly, this is the first comic community where I actually care to be involved in.
Now, if only people stopped creating forum topics to casually advertise their comics....

[mariusthered]

all kidding aside .. I don't mind people pointing things out to me as long as they do it with respect. rudeness get my goat big time.

The thing I'm most sensitive about (and I have spoken about this before on this site) is spelling problems and grammar. It's astounding how many people will be rude about problems with spelling and not even consider if the person who wrote it is Dyslexic. I now use a word processor to cut and paste all my text but i still get problems with grammar and the odd typo. Now if someone drops me a pm and says "o you need to fix that" i say thanks and do so asap no problem. What really pisses me off is when some grammar nazi makes a big deal and make you look stupid on the internet. people tend to forget not everyone works the same way but that dose not mean everyone who has not got a grammar degree is daft!.

*back to my quite corner *

[FixerTheWise]

You are very quick to think the worst of people lol

[Ringarune]

hmmm, I definitely agree that if people ask for criticism people should give it, however I'm not so sure about giving criticism when it isn't asked for. Everyone has different things they want to get out of their art, some really want to improve and criticism will definitely help, but for others it's just very casual or a way to relax and you can't really know which category people are in when commenting.

In my personal experience, tapastic has been pretty much the nicest and most supportive community I've been a part of and I'm grateful for. I think this kind of environment is special, especially for budding comic creators. Making comics takes SO MUCH effort and it's easy to want to give up sometimes, but this community is so supportive and kind that it can keep one's motivation up.

Looking at a community like webtoon, which although I don't think is bad, most people are really nice, but there definitely are more blunt people willing to give criticism, I think can be demoralizing. I've seen some comics with art that could definitely be improved, and the comments on some of those were kind of harsh. Looking back on myself, if I had been in such an environment when I was just starting out, I think I would come to the conclusion that it wasn't worth doing comics.

[AffectedMind]

Sure, I see a lot of "your comic is great, keep updating and you'll get more subs" when the better advise should've been to point out the obvious problems the comic had. But then again, it's better to encourage than to discourage.

Well I think criticism is encouraging people to be better artists.

[Michelle]

I agree with this--- it's an lot easier to provide critique when someone is looking for feedback on something specific, or on a single page. But just sharing your entire comic and asking for critique... well, it's hard to give actionable feedback on such a large scope, especially over the internet.
And I too am one of those people who writes really in-depth feedback, so I want to know the person on the receiving end is actually looking for advice. I think that article does well to point out the other side of critiques that people might forget-- it takes time and energy to formulate a useful critique, so if someone's just casually throwing out "Hey look at my stuff lemme know what you think" without REALLY meaning it, I'd less inclined to give them a thoughtful critique.

[heterodont]

Idk I have to agree with @shazzbaa. Sure, an unsolicitated critique isn't the same as hate or troll comments - but from my impression, a lot of people make webcomics as a hobby and not something that they particularly want to make a living off of? (granted, it's also split half in half - people who do it as a hobby and people who want to make some kind of money off of it.) So a lot of people might not want to be looking for a critique.

Not to mention an author can just be like "okay thanks!" but throw your advice completely out the window. Again, one of many scenarios but frankly if I was gonna take my time in writing out a critique that wasn't just a broad "work on your anatomy/color/inking", I'd rather do it when someone asks specifically what they need to improve on.

Not to say the forums should just pat everyone on the back 24/7.

[alaingrey]

I am going to agree that unsolicited critique isn't helpful. Some people want to make comics as a hobby only, some people get critiques elsewhere. i spend my whole day job getting critiques from art directors, clients, programmers, random people in the office who just want to make commentary..... 8^I

Unless I ask for it on the internet, I just want to chill and talk to other creators about creating. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in improvement, I just find random critique off putting. I imagine many other people feel similarly because they just get their critique from other places. And if they just don't have the interest and don't really want to improve... hey! who cares! That's their choice, not ours as a community.