Tapastic community too nice? (WARNING: Long rant)

[Tanisha]

But sometimes people don't want to improve really? They're just in it for fun which is something I've seen on deviantart a lot and I won't be surprised if people on here are kind of like that ya know?

[niinasalmelin]

I think some part of it is the fact that the environment isn't really professional. It's more of a mix of beginners, pros and hobbyists with completely different goals. It's not bad thing by any means but it affects on how I act here.

There has been many topics where critique is being discussed here and often I've seen people say "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say it" as actually good advice. It baffles me, but I'm not going to get into internet argument over that shit so I just sail away and don't look back. When I want critique myself I go to other forums I know take it more seriously or to my artist friends who don't hold back, and when they come to me for feedback I do the same

Also it's forth mentioning that at first I gave couple lengthy feedbacks tackling the issues I saw. Those people who asked for this critique just flat out ignored me completely and answered to other overly positive ones. After that I don't really feel like bothering if I'm not sure that the receiver is actually looking for critique and not only compliments. Rudely put: I can put my time in better use.

That being said, Tapastic and it's niceness doesn't bother me, because I know where to find good critique.

[Kura]

I thought critique was handled just fine here, even if the community is more on the friendly side you still see it. In the forums you get a good amount of people responding and being active in threads that ask for it (review/critique requests, comment on the comic above, 'how do I do the thing' type threads) Edit: Even meaner if they're criticizing the tapa website or ap =P

While on the tapastic site I'll also see critique in the comments, such as "I think those two word bubbles are supposed to be separate" "I have a hard time telling what's happening in panel ___" or "The perspective looks a little off to me" and of course grammar corrections like "It should be they're not their"

I've even seen not so great / troll like critique (or heard from creators that had gotten it) So it's not as if this place is void of any of that. If you haven't gotten any of that on your comic yet then perhaps you are just not popular enough to attract the troll/'I think I'm helping by being mean constructive but I'm really not' comments.

[sorrelma]

i think constructive criticism is very important but it's worth mentioning that tapastic actually has a community and a sense of accountability, which is a huge jump from some of the hosts i've used in the past. i don't miss flame wars and derogatory comments by teenagers on reddit - and that's what a lot of artists had to deal with before modern hosting sites like this
aside from no longer receiving hate speech disguised as a comment, i honestly haven't noticed a huge change in the kinds of comments i receive. no matter which site i use, it's mostly short, positive feedback - the kind to drive you forward and make you feel good - and suggestions on how to improve. ex my lettering is really awful, and people will tell me that no matter where i am

[Dozzer]

I'm no stranger to the way the Internet is. As a person who's essentially now numb to harsh Reddit and YouTube comments, I feel like Tapastic is a breath of fresh air. You can even say I do my part trying to preserve that welcoming environment.

Is the community nice? Yes. Is the community TOO nice? I don't know about that. "Too nice" implies that it's a problem, which I think it's not. I think that there's enough soliciting of feedback from creators to receive the criticism that you think might be lacking. In other words, if I need feedback, I know I can ask for it, and people have given me that blunt criticism I needed to grow and approach my work from another perspective.

Just my two cents
If you guys need a series to critique, check out mine! The Middle Crowd

[sorrelma]

this is a really good point ! most people don't have the time or energy or expertise to write a monologue about your comic - and you shouldn't expect them to
i love short comments. they are reasonable to expect and reasonable to give. people don't have to read your comic and they definitely don't have to give feedback but when they do you should appreciate that

[carloswebcomic]

You are very quick to think the worst of people lol

I've been around long enough to know that people can be worse than the worst you can think of.

[carloswebcomic]

Well I think criticism is encouraging people to be better artists.

Unfortunately everyone thinks their criticism is constructive and everyone loves criticism until they are on the receiving end.

[StevenDacasin]

I think there's so many comics on this site that when you try and ask for critiques people won't bother. Reason being is because they're busy trying to get there comic out there too. Personally I have asked for reviews for my comic but in the end I only got 1 response. I'm all for critiques but actually having people give one seems hard on this site when everyone else is trying to get there's critiqued.

[shazzbaa]

I just find it really annoying this narcisistic thinking: Oh, someone didn't praise me? What an asshole. Just because someone isn't super nice, doesn't mean they are rude or insulting. It's not a binary of absolutes.

The thing is that I don't disagree with this part. It's not a binary of absolutes -- and that's why I feel like the black-and-white attitude of "anyone who doesn't want unasked-for critique is a narcissistic jerk who's only looking for praise" is a misconception that harms the artistic community. : ( Sure, not everyone who offers critique is being a rude, insulting jerk! Usually they're well-meaning! But the behaviour of unsolicited critique is unintentionally presumptuous about what other artists "should" want.

I think artists should certainly strive to accept critique with grace and consider even the critique they didn't want to hear. But I also think the people offering critique would do well to ask, first, if the creator wants it, and not just assume that their opinions are so important that the creator should be grateful for them.

---

A lot of people have already brought up that many creators here are just relaxing or having fun, not specifically looking for critique. But I'll add that many artists who are serious about their art do appreciate critique, but don't really want to crowdsource it. Some want critique from a few peers or professionals that they trust, or from people familiar with the genre they're working in, and not from every skilled creator that has an opinion. This twitter thread put it pretty well.

Even Neil Gaiman's rules for writing mention seeking critique from "people who like the kind of thing that this is." Being selective in the critique you seek out is okay!

---

That artist later tried to fix it and she's working hard to improve. It's not much and it helps.

Some people are really hungry for useful critique, and absolutely, I think it's good to offer to those who are open to it!! I would LOVE to see more spaces for critique here -- it's something I genuinely enjoy or I wouldn't spend so much time on it. xD And in times when I've asked for critique on my own work, I super appreciated the people who took the time to tell me the things that didn't work for them -- it was extremely helpful for me as an artist!
The problem comes in when some creators assume that every good artist SHOULD be open for critique all the time -- which is why I say it's unsolicited (unasked for) critique that isn't always helpful. You might get lucky and critique someone who really wanted to hear it -- but imo it's better to ask and be sure!

[dglisson]

As a newbie creator (my comic is the first webcomic I have ever done and I started making it last November) I have already been on both sides of the spectrum. My readers who love my comic who are always providing encouraging commentary on the one end of it here on Tapastic, not really any criticism there! I requested a review once on this forum and was given a glowing recommendation from the reviewer. I requested critiques from a couple of my subs through private messaging whose honesty I trusted and received great feedback, mostly positive with a few things to focus on, but all of it very supportive.

Then on the other side of things, I once requested critiques of my comic on a site I mirror and had one person start with "Maybe I'm just being nitpicky but..." and proceeded to just tear the comic apart with a mixture of valid criticism of the art (mostly on the early pages) to questioning character motivations in the tiniest of manners, all in an extremely rude tone. I took what I felt to be valid, ignored the rest, and thanked him for all of it. I found it to be a positive experience as there definitely were concerns of value there.

Still, in my opinion if given the choice, due only to the rudeness of the tone, I would take the "Tapastic too niceness" any day.

[UrMom]

I would post more criticism, but 1. I don't have time, work takes up every aspect of my life now, and at the end of the day I hardly have energy to even work on my comic. 2. I'm not very nice, my criticism is blunt, which usually gets me a lot of crap that I no long have the energy to sort through. 3. (which is kinda related to 2) Me and my paranoid self find it kinda dangerous, not only have I had people send me death threats, I've seen people get doxxed for just saying something negative about someone's work. Sure I guess I don't have to worry about stuff like that here, but thanks to my general distrust of my own species and being too tired, I don't want to take any chances.

Maybe someday when people stop equating criticism to personal attacks, or aren't so into themselves they expect every bit of commentary on their work to be butt kissing, or sugar coated. Lol, but that'll never happen, we're too human. xP

[nathankschulz]

Honestly, I disagree. Nice is important. Don't we have the rest of the internet for absolute harsh truth? For rants about how everything sucks? Maybe tapastic should be viewed as a nursery. Not in a bad way, but in an early growing way. Sure, we ask for no-holds barred criticism, buuuuut.... c'mon we don't really want it. Seek out particular people for trusted, tempered opinion. Which you can find here. I think this is a site for letting people try stuff out and have fun. I'm in my 30's, but it took a damn long time to be ready to deal with criticism. Then again, I'm just a big marshmallow of a man, so what do I know?

[Luie]

I can relate to your point. There is a vague but general sense of niceness, and while I try to be as honest as I can, I often have to consider if I should say nothing to avoid offending somebody --Which is something that would never cross my mind in any other setting. This makes the critique itself much more time-consuming. I've done critiques that take over an hour, and on average they take at least 30 minutes if the comics themselves are short.

Generally when people start a thread asking the forum to critique their comic, it's because their comic is not doing as well as they expected or they suspect something about it isn't working and they are feeling under-confident about their work. For the fact that I would want someone to tell me when something isn't working, I try to give my best critique to anyone who asks. However, there are plenty of times when it's just too much work. Most of the time, it is simply because a comic is too long. And yes, I do notice a lack of response towards requests for critiques on comics who have a lot of things that aren't working. But I always assumed a lack of response is because the requesters are asking for a free service and most people, no matter how good their intentions are, don't have the time or energy for.

Criticism where it's wanted is an important thing, but it's a service that takes time and effort. If it's not being repaid in some way, it shouldn't be expected.

[kkitty]

It's a grey area in terms of unsolicited critiques.

I don't know, I like Tapastic. It's okay if people don't criticize that often. I also haven't thought of the fact that asking people to critique really is asking them to do something really good for free, so thank you to everyone that pointed that out. It'll make me put more effort in asking for critiques in the future.

I'm someone that no matter how much I understand I need critique and that there's room to improve, I'll still feel like I'm putting myself on blast when someone says something negative about my work. It's just who I am as a person. So I try extra hard to thank them in the end.

Reddit is one example of a place I hate though and a place where unsolicited critiques include:
-constant downvoting of art if the character isn't an attractive female that the majority of the fandom likes,
-telling me that my guys 'look like females' when the SOURCE MATERIAL WAS in fact a guy who was supposed to look androgynous,
-just a general attitude that I really hate. It's really pretentious, like they expect everything I post to be a masterpiece.

It kind of feels like I'm a chef that's not getting paid to feed a bunch of spoiled children that will spit the food back out if they find a single grain of salt too many.

Personally though, I think that Tapastic can afford to be a bit more critical. But Reddit is one example of what I think people are afraid of this forum being (which I'm sure it won't since the mods are active and on track a lot).

[VermillionWorks]

From what I've seen from reviewers and when someone asks for a critique, people here are usually pretty straight forward and honest.

I'm perfectly fine with criticism more on the blunt side, but I ain't going to encourage people to start being more brutal around here or in comments just for the sake of it, I enjoy Taps being a happy land. XD

Then again, maybe it's just because I dealt with the brutal side of webcomic comments/criticism for years and am just finding this refreshing. As some have said, there are still lots of other sites, webcomic-related or otherwise, where you can get more harshness. XP

[Aspie_Gamer]

Honestly, I prefer the fact that Tapastic is a very very mellow community. Having been a part of some toxic internet communities in the past, I can honestly say that I'd rather have warranted nice, but firm criticism on my comic than some unfunny asswipe review my comic in the style of a poor man's AVGN/Nostalgia Critic/Angry Joe/etc. out of the blue.

[demthorshie]

The issue is, criticism is endangered around here.

I think you bring up a pretty valid point when you say that criticism is almost non-existent here at the Tapastic forums. As already mentioned in previous posts before mine, some of us literally only critique others when they ask to be critiqued on something specific, whether it be a critique of their art, panel formatting or dialogue within their comics. The point is, I think it's a little messed up to assume that everyone is wanting to receive criticism when they haven't specifically asked for it.

The honest to god truth with that is that you don't know where they are in their own artistic abilities. For someone to issue an unsolicited critique on the internet is pointless and chances are, that person is probably not going to take that 'criticism' as advice, but rather an insult. That's why I will only critique someone if they are specifically asking to be critiqued. I don't see any real premise in doing otherwise.

[Makarov]

With all the toxic communities out there, in gaming, politics, work, social media etc. , it's quite refreshing to have a kind and nice community.

I'm really glad people at Tapastic are really nice, and I don't want that to change. Criticisms to point out mistakes for the sake of improvement can be done privately anyways.

[angelfire]

I agree with what you're saying. I know a lot of people have already shared their thoughts on this, so I'll share mine too ^^

I have greatly noticed the lack of criticism on this site. It's always bothered me. Especially when I ask for criticism and don't get any. It's honestly awful. I mean the encouragement is through the roof, but even I can see that I need to improve immensely.
There are people who don't take to criticism lightly, I used to be one of those people, but if they don't get that help (regardless of what stage they're at) they're going to continue doing the same mistakes thinking it's right.

It doesn't have to be something big either. Something like "Hey, I'm having trouble understanding" or "I think next time you should try a deeper color with that" is fine.
Don't be like "This sucks" or "I can't believe you said that!" be CONSTRUCTIVE about it.

I read lots of replies here about how they'd choose tapastic's "niceness" over other sites meanness, And yeah it makes sense, but quite honestly this niceness gets on my nerves.