It’s almost like reading a poorly written fanfiction mushed with cement and then they slapped a gay label on it. I don’t freaking believe this.
The writing of fifty shades is better than this and that’s coming from a person who despises that book. It’s not my thing. 
You can’t just use the word gay for emphasis FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!
Sorry.
I think there may be a bit of a generational divide on this. I think it's fair to say that on average, those discovering their sexuality and coming out and falling in love in the last decade in places like North American and European democracies had different, broader, and in a not insignificant number of cases less dangerous and more welcoming experiences than those coming out in the late 90s/early 2000s, which in turn were different than those coming out in the late 70s early 80s, a huge swath of whom are dead from AIDS.
For a lot of older people it seems like the gayness struggle was the biggest part of their experience and stores focused only on that resonate with them (not just because of their experience but also because of the very limited amount of media showing such relationships back then); while now, homophobia is not monolithic and younger people's experiences have so much variation that readers want more: they want people and the stories about them to be more than just about their gayness and not clinging to stereotypes which are outdated, or assuming there is only one way to be and "act" gay.
This perspective is not to downplay in any way the struggles LGBT people, especially youth, still have everywhere in coming out. My own daughter, a young teen, confessed to me that she was scared to death of our reaction when she came out. I actually had to work hard to maintain my composure as I gently told her "My dear child, you have two dads, why would you think we would be upset in any way?" 🤣
Awww that’s soooo sweet and wholesome! With your daughter 🥺
️ and she has two dads too. 
️ my heart just melted
God bless her and your family ️
I get it to a point, but I think there's a difference between writing a character who is 'the gay guy' and using harmful tropes.
I have zero issue with most tropes in BL, honestly, but what bothers me is when people don't understand the tropes they're using. Like "he's gay so he must like ALL men".
I mean, I grew up in the 90s and early 2000s. I've been hospitalized 2 times in my life from being attacked by bigots. Almost died the second time. Been kicked out of malls and all kinds of shit. I've been through it, and I went to gay parades and I marched in movements. I've been there pretty deeply. But if I had an autobiography, it wouldn't be about me being gay, it'd be about how the world couldn't accept me because I was gay. Because that was all they saw.
I think some people just don't know how to write it and are writing based on the characters/tropes they have access to. Like Kurt Hummel from Glee is the quintessential gay drama kid. While he's probably super relatable to some people, if he's your only reference point for a gay main character, the character could easily come off as stereotypical. Some of my favorite queer characters were written to be human first. I don't think a lot of people remember that when they are writing gay characters.
Exactly! The thing is me as a bisexual that doesn’t mean I’m romantically/sexually attracted to EVERY guy or girl I meet! Same for a gay person! You can have healthy friendships despite which gender you are attracted to. For my story in Cracking Eggs, I’m planning to have my character Eric to team up with Wellington who is married to a lovely lady with children and Eric does develop a bit of a crush on him but they also become enemies to close allies and eventually friends. At this point in the story as well Eric is engaged to Winston.
Winston is also gay but that doesn’t mean he’s going to hit on his brother Jack or his little nephew. People just over sexualize the word gay which is disgusting on so many levels. Trying to weaponize the word as I see.
Yep. All sexualities are complex because all people are complex. Relationships are complex.
I remember having a massive crush on a coworker many years ago, but they were definitely straight and I definitely respected that. Never even brought it up. They ended up finding a girlfriend, going mad over heels for her and eventually got married. And I supported them the entire way. It was truly wonderful to see how incredibly happy he was, like one of those unheard of fairytale romances. We were best friends for a long time (they eventually moved and we just naturally grew apart, but it's one of my fondest relationships).
In the scott pilgrim comics, which are good, Wallace wells thinks Lucas lee is a dumb sellout actor. But because the movie is bad, in that he obviously thinks Lee is hot, because you can’t just have a gay character NOT be into every man he sees. What do you take him for, a nuanced person with thoughts and feelings beyond his sexuality?
Exactly I have a crush on a coworker who is a lovely girl but she and I are great friends too. She knows I like her but she doesn’t mind but we are just friends. Relationships sure are complicated.
Bisexual erasure is also an issue but that's a topic I could rant on for a long time, lol.
But I feel you, for sure. Bi people get treated like they're absolute sex maniacs, even within the LGBT+ community. It's one of the things that sets of my rage. Ahem.
I've even seen children's media have a bisexual erasure problem.
The main character of the two princes podcast on Spotify is susceptible to the influence of sexy flirty lady monster magic before meeting his love interest, but after he meets his love interest, someone tries it on him it doesn't work, and he explicitly says it's because he's into guys. Like they basically implied that meeting a hot guy turned him gay.
Exactly I’m not a sex manic. I’ve never even kissed anyone yet! People treat like having multiple preferences don’t even exist!
I've had a theory there are three main types of gay characters in mainstream media. The sex obsessed attractive gay, who ultimately has to be punished and have some tragic ending. The best friend who has to be portrayed as far from sexually appealing as possible so he's not threatening to the audience (be it physical characteristics or personality). And the older washed up gay who sits around complaining about why they're all old and miserable and can't find love while still doing all the same things they did as young men. These are not healthy role models for young men.
But I also get offended by some queer media where the story tries to tell me that in order to be gay I have to like campy things or act a certain way, or use specific labels, but maybe there have been so many of those because they're still trying to cater to what they think the mainstream views gays as? I don't know. I'm technically a bad gay since I'm gray ace and happen to like men, I felt growing up just as ignored or under represented by queer and straight authors alike, but maybe I was looking in the wrong place for content. I can understand how people get angry about bi erasure for sure.
I get that, too. Like, I was heavily into sports as a kid. I was also the rebellious skater who hung out with a bunch of straight dudes and got into trouble all the time. I was in the military (secretly at time since the whole "don't ask, don't tell" thing was going). Most all of those are things society doesn't see as 'gay guy' material.
I've never really had a thing for porn. Don't judge people who do, but it just doesn't do anything for me. Never slept around either and all of my relationships have been dedicated and pretty wholesome.
There are also areas where I guess I'm pretty 'typical' gay. I love kids, and caring for them. I'm very openly a feminist, I get really involved in activism, I'm an artist.
But if you stop to think, those attributes could easily be any gender, and any sexuality. It's just weird how roles are so entrenched not just in genders, but in sexualities as well.
Listen im not gonna pretend im not the first person to complain about shitty steriotypes and how uncomfortably sexualized every BL i see is to the point someone sends me a BL with anything remotely wholesome i eat that shit up..... BUT
There is gonna be a point where we have to accept that some of this toxic and/or "problematic" tropes and story beats... are actually just a guilty pleasure that a lot of people just wanna go home and read after their long day at work.
Is it mostly teenage girls who just wanna see two hot boys kissing? yeah mostly. but theres also people who enjoy hate reading and actually LIKE having a really shitty and toxic story to read. Hell, I watched 50 shades of grey with my bondage enthisist friends and we had a grand time yelling at the movie for being bad. its still a BAD movie, but people got opened up to the idea of feminine sexuality and bondage (for better or wrose) and REAL bondage people can explain what the movie did worng and how to do it right wink wink nudge nudge
I greatly dislike a lot of BL tropes and a lot of BL writen by women but... i mean a majority of them are writing it for themsleves? I tend to jsut stay away from it or try to make my own versions of a "good" BL 
everyones got their own taste in media and im sure they would consider my "healthy" BL romance to be boring and lacking any "hot drama" to make it intresting for them so they would avoid my shit like the plgue just like i would avoid theirs 
I personally advocate for people of any gender or sexuality to write any sort of content, and I fully support people writing all kinds of relationships. Toxic or otherwise, classic seme/uke stuff, I genuinely don't care. I think women having a space where they can write erotic (or just romantic) fiction about two gay guys is absolutely fair, given how women-- especially lesbians-- have been all but owned by straight men in media for literal centuries. Women have a right to enjoy whatever couple types they like. Men really have no right to bitch, IMO.
That said, I'm very specifically focusing on people who write gay characters in ways that follow real-world harmful ideology. Writing a gay character who hits on literally everyone because who he is, is that gay trope. Because the people writing it believe that is what a gay man is and don't have any other sort of understanding. I think that's different than analyzing typical BL tropes.
Thank for bringing up this subject to the table now I know where to find someone who actually has had those experiences. However, everyone’s experiences wether gay or straight or bi or black or white or purple orange and blue experiences are not alike.
Again like I said life is complicated and people aren’t so black and white as we try to make it. As simple as we want it to be it can’t be so because if everyone was the same, life would be boring as hell.
I just feel like theres always going to be some kind of overlap of "person who is just trying to make the most intresting gay drama possible" and "very harmful gay tropes" I think its fine to go to the authors and try to educate them as... again they could just be 16 year olds having fun or 30 year olds who have no internet comunity experience. But you really shouldnt try to mind read which ones are doing it for Tlols and who is just agressivly uneducated- and prob shouldnt be too suprised if they HAVE fans and their fans get upset youre trying to "educate" them when the fans feel like "theres nothing toxic" or sometimes just as commonly "yea its toxic, thats the point"
