The problem with popular visibility. ( A discussion of new way to be discovered )

[UzukiCheverie]

I have to agree very strongly with the comic ceiling point. The way Tapas is built has led to a certain handful of comics that are super popular and remain popular simply for being popular . . . so they end up being the only ones seen at all times, which just continues to fuel them with minimal effort. Additionally, because of the growing traffic of the website, and the increasing number of readers, it takes a lot more now to break into Popular/Trending. When you add in the fact that getting into those sections requires you to compete with those popular comics mentioned, it's become unnecessarily difficult.

Three years ago, it would take maybe 500 views to get into Trending/Popular; now it takes a few thousand, views that most people just don't get because there are comics that automatically get those views from constantly being in Popular, Trending, Daily Snack, and just featured all the time via banners and other things here and there (plus the genre matters too - I hate to bring it back to this argument, but yes, gag-a-day and BL are basically the prerequisite genre to making it anywhere on Tapas, especially if you want to break through that comic ceiling that's been formed as a direct result of these genres).

Tapas is gonna grow, and that's just an inevitability. It's not a bad thing. But the way the site is built basically means that the more it grows, the less variability you see in content - because all that traffic is being redirected to the same small handful of comics over and over again, from every possible angle.

[genjiOtori]

This is something I'm constantly thinking about and how to change that to my advantage.
Starting this year I heavily promoted my comic on facebook and twitter and got some increased view amounts and subscribers. But I also realized that the format of my comic isn't competable against the most popular stuff here on tapas. In fact, I see myself unable to ever get successful on tapas because of the way it works: get a lot of comments and likes in a short period of time. That's not how my comic works. It's a slow and steady journey. Often I don't get comments at all because... yeah, why should I. It's a new page. Great!

I know my readership is very faithful but also quiet. By cleverly promoting the comic on Facebook I reached Trending a few times and I got a handful of new subscribers... which are also of the silent type or they just read the comic once a month when 10 pages are up. I know people like my comic and it doesn't suck. But it's just not detectable on tapas. I'm constantly thinking about how readers can find me if I'm not promoting (which takes A LOT OF TIME, gosh) and I'm clueless here on tapas:

• The search feature is... strange. How are the comics ranked?
• I have to decide solely on ICON AND TITLE when I'm looking for a new comic
• I have to click/tap more than 3 times to get from popular section to a genre I like

That's not really readerfriendly. And honestly I don't enjoy looking for new comics on tapas. I find the best comics on Twitter because creators provide more important information in a tweet: a bigger image and a catchy description.

[LordVincent]

I don't think it's an issue of visibility. Some comics just do better on one platform than another.
I personally had the exact opposite experience of everyone here. On all sites I tried previous to tapas I got little to no attention. I struggled hard and worked my ass off. Then when I came to tapas, my hard work finally began giving results. Someone here said "You don't get attention or new subs by being on page 5 of trending!!" but that's where I started out. And that's where I was for a long time. I had to work my ass off to get out of there, but that's how the art business works. If you're in it for popularity, you're in the wrong business. You'd probably do better as a youtube makeup guru or a blogger or pretty much aaaanything else if you just want quick and easy eyes on you.

I want it to be easier for small artists that are ready to put in the work on a regular basis to get the attention they deserve, but now that the popular section is pushed faaaaaar down on the page whereas trending is fairly high up, I don't think tapas has done that bad of a job to approach this. There's even a weird thing that takes you to a completely random comic when you sign in on desktop. The only thing they could do to help small comics besides this, in my opinion, is create a snack feed for small comics only and create a section for "just added an episode" on the front page. That would be an improvement, sure, but that doesn't mean tapas is doing BADLY right now.

Keep in mind that no algorithm will help if you don't work your ass off to study it and use it to your advantage.
Momentum and hard work is everything.

The way Tapas is built has led to a certain handful of comics that are super popular and remain popular simply for being popular . . . so they end up being the only ones seen at all times, which just continues to fuel them with minimal effort.

I work like 10-14 hours a day... Tell me again about "minimal effort" ._.

[Louistrations]

I was going to suggest that a lot of comics would benefit from the comic collections being updated and expanded upon... but I've just noticed that they're no longer on the main Tapas site(?)

Tapas have specific types/formats of comics that they like to promote, which I have no qualms about; you have to remember that they're also trying to bring in new users and build a brand image. But, I always secretly hoped for a magical girl collection! Ehe

[LordVincent]

I would like a clearly visible and more easily accessible just-updated section that shows comics that just uploaded an episode. I have a feeling this is what helps new comics rise on webtoons and smackjeeves.

I was going to suggest that a lot of comics would benefit from the comic collections being updated and expanded upon... but I've just noticed that they're no longer on the main Tapas site(?)

I think they have collections that change regularily on the app?
Magical girls don't get much attention on here and would be a fun change actually xD

[PopChromatic]

I would like a clearly visible and more easily accessible just-updated section that shows comics that just uploaded an episode. I have a feeling this is what helps new comics rise on webtoons and smackjeeves.

Absolutely. The "fresh" section is a tiny, easily-ignored square at the bottom of the page. I don't really understand why.

[PopChromatic]

I think you'd be great on a panel or as a curator. But it's true: the time demand would be enormous. I think it would have to be a paid position. I, for one, would become a premium subscriber to support something like that.

[LordVincent]

Do you mean on the app? Because on the desktop site there is no "fresh", there's only new and noteworthy which requires for the comic to be recognized by tapas staff. We need a section that automatically gives everyone a chance and isn't all up to luck, so that people who don't get recognized by that small group of people can get a somewhat larger chance to use statistics and small exposure to their advantage to grow and easier integrate into trending and eventually popular.

[PopChromatic]

Nope! There is a fresh section at the very freaking bottom of the front page on the desktop. Much to my surprise!

[LordVincent]

Wtf? It doesn't even exist on my end.

[PopChromatic]

Really? You don't have a picture of a ram under the "discover more" heading?

[LordVincent]

OHHHHH THAT ONE dude that doesn't fucking COUNT, who clicks an image that's been the same for years?
I mean a small row of thumbnails of actual comics that just updated.

[PopChromatic]

Well, right. It's useless.

[keii4ii]

Preaching to the choir, dude! I agree that the discoverability needs to be improved, badly, on this platform. I didn't bring it up to say "everything is fine the way it is." I brought it up to tell you, even comics with a good number of subscribers are getting buried. It's not just comics under X subs that could use the help. It's every comic that's not making it to Popular/ Trending/ DS regularly, every comic that's hidden from the eyes of people who would love it only if they knew it existed. (which seems like we both agree anyway; it's just the first post seemed focused on comics with few subs, so I wanted to be more inclusive)

[Jrej]

Very interesting topic here.
I'm glad we're bringing this up.

I do get Tapastic's model and I get why they promote the site with very specific comics.
On the other end a fresh section or most recent page would be handy for everyone.

Curators is a great alternative.
Maybe showcasing everyone's reading list would be simple enough.
I followed the super science club project adding a special banner to promote comics i like.
I hope that sends some of my readers over to them.

It's also our responsability as creators to share the comics we love, directly to the readers, like on the wall, in the forums, on twitter, and why not straight into the comic...

[Nio_Kasgami]

Oh wait this brough a idea...

Why not making user space where they can pick up their own 'favorite' comic?

how to say the creator for support their comic their love can do a choice of list I dunno f their 10 top comic and this will show on their wall or I dunnno in the suggestion list in their comic?

[DaveStankoven]

@Nio_Kasgami That's good, too.

I feel like clarifying a little. I don't think any part of the current Tapas system should go away. What is already in place is fantastic. Way better than most or any other sites. I just think we have an opportunity to make a great thing better. I'm very happy with the conversation that's beginning here.

There are creators that feel under-represented. I don't thinking 1 idea is a silver bullet to fix that. there will always be series that struggle to gain an audience but I believe in change and improving. I think we can always do more to help circulate series to new readers.

Just because some series have had great success here doesn't mean others will under current systems. KEEP the current systems. but adding new ones won't harm the other systems.

I think curators stands outside the statistical math. The same with Nio's ideas of creator recommendations. Perhaps even a new section that bases your reader list on the reader lists of others and ranks comics on a percentage system for you personally. much like how Netflix currently works. Sort of an individualized discovery system. Anything is possible.

[DaveStankoven]

I don't think Tapas is doing badly. And it's wonderful you've had success here. The purpose of this is to converse and see if additional things can be added for more opportunities. Other systems can always be added to connect new readers with comics.

Don't mistake me, it's not about becoming popular, it's about connecting with people. It's about personally changing a small moment in someone's lives. We all want to do this as much as possible. Though on a production level, more views means more funding which makes it more possible.

And Uzuki wasn't referring to you personally. Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all issue. Each creators has a personal experience with Tapas. Some get lucky. Some work their asses off. We JUST want additional opportunities for visibility.

[kyupol]

One suggestion I have is to have random similar comics recommended to the reader... Kinda like what YouTube has with similar videos when done watching a video you got 10 similar videos lined up.

YouTube's algorithm is even more target specific. Cuz for one straight week I watched nothing but street fights in the Philippines... And all my recommendations showed me just that specific type of fight video. As in no professional mma or boxing... Not even ghetto fights that end up on WorldstarHipHop... Lol

I suggest tapas do something similar.

[LordVincent]

And Uzuki wasn't referring to you personally. Obviously this isn't a one-size-fits-all issue. Each creators has a personal experience with Tapas. Some get lucky. Some work their asses off. We JUST want additional opportunities for visibility.

I want that too, it would be lovely to see more content rise up, new creators get a chance, and it would benefit me too. It would benefit the whole site overall.
I was just making my response in the way I did because I see a lot of people who get really negative and weird in these kind of threads, suggesting "popular" creators (or someone who is making BL or gag comics) can just shit a page out their ass once a month and then, as us swedes say, "glide forth on a shrimp sandwich". I think we can help and promote smaller creators without shitting on the hard work that bigger or medium size creators put in.

We should want to help small creators because hard work deserves to be rewarded, regardless of how many subs that person has prior to the incident.