"The Writer is a Sadist!" -- Dark Characters Discussion

[ErithEl]

I used to write really uplifting, holding-onto-their-humanity type stories...and then I moved to LA and started working in retail. Now everything I write it dark (but more realistic).

It also doesn't help that over the past couple years I really got into Game of Thrones and Hunger Games, which are both series where sh*t happens to the characters and you see a lasting effect on them as a result.
This is something I've been trying to do, since I feel like stories where massive, epic, end-of-the-world disasters occur – and then at the end the characters are back to the way they were in the beginning. To me, that basically negates the whole story and any character development they may have gone through.

Personally, I do like to put my characters through a lot. I like throw them into situations where they will be given the choice to either wither or stand up. I like stories about characters finding their inner strength in the face of darkness and suffering.

I'm gonna be perfectly honest, though, I'm actually a little afraid of how my readers will react to certain parts in the future of Burning Bright. I just keep telling myself if there are readers who can handle comics like Daniel and Unsounded, then they can handle anything!

[WednesdayAsh]

Conflict is the catalyst for story, its resolution an ending makes.

By definition all protagonists "suffer", even in comedies (perhaps more so in comedies, as their suffering is absurd).

Darkness of a character here than is defined in terms of seriousness and how its played out rather than suffering itself. The more serious the protagonist regards her suffering, the more tradionally "dark" it becomes. Literal darkness here obviously plays a factor in how "dark" a story is.

Than you have dark comedies, where the "darkness" is implied in the writing contrasted with the "bright" art. Think Cyanide and Happiness. Which brings me to the next point.

There can be no dark without light. Thats why for me overtly dark stories can be hilariously bad as it is as severly unrealistic as the overtly bright and saccarine.

A balance is needed between darkness and lightness for it to resonate and not turn parodic.

Death and destruction is easy, true darkness (and lightness) in other forms must emerge in a character for one to be truly whole.

IMHO anyway.

[KSlinger]

I'm of the mind that drama, darkness, suspense and in-comic cruelty are fine in the grand scheme of things. If your character has a dark past behind them or painful future lying ahead, that's actually really interesting and makes me want to learn more about them, and I especially love it when it's possible to see the affects of these events on characters during the more mundane times as well. Being able to spot a character with PTSD before I've been told what happened to them makes me feel bonded to them, in a way. There's something special about being able to read between the lines like that and to be able to tell when a character is acting strangely because they have been exposed to something that still hurts-- not because they want to, but because they can't help it.

That said, I don't enjoy comics that are nothing but character torture. Unless your comic is literally set in hell, I'm going to switch off very quickly if all I see is weeping, screaming and general hysteria. It's the equivalent of trying to approach a dog that's gone feral: there's nothing that can be done here and there's no room for change. Give me a character whose shoulder I can put my hand on when they fail, not a hysterical shrew who wallows in self-pity.

On a more personal note, in West, the most traumatic events in the story have already been and gone. What we explore there is the fallout and how different people deal-- which, of course, requires some explanation of what happened in the first place. There are also some things in future that I'm really, really not looking forward too, and I do wonder at times if they're too dark, but then I remember that there's also a lot of fun and silliness in there as well. Like some real stupid shit. And love. So I'm not that awful, really. Just a little bit.

I'm actually more worried about the plot lines being overcomplicated and confusing-- but that's a whole other kettle of fish.

[mariusthered]

I enjoy writing Dark characters,

I write a Drama Web Soap called Talesfromswipecity right from the start the characters are dark, even the good ones show elements of darkness.
Example: Character Steve Lawson, is shown in a scene trying to throw his ex baby sitter and lover out of the house, when she tries to blackmail him he gets angry and throws her to the floor ( then later agrees to pick up the affair where it left off) dose this make hi a bad character? no just not a very honest one even if his wife is cold and unloving. but on the flip side of Steve he's a great dad and a very loyal cop.
but I have also written the opposite of this in a character Named Stanley Francisco. mob boss and former Hitman. he is a dark character with a cool head, but I have also written a scene that show his caring side.

I think as humans we must show out weaknesses in darkness to be believable.

[MichelleAntisocial]

Hmm.. I put my protagonists through a lot, regardless of what I'm writing. Stray Cats is pretty dark in particular, but it's really just about two different people dealing with complicated problems and dark pasts in their own ways. If you really want to break it down, the entire story is about learning to trust again after trauma.. things are going to continue to go poorly for Grey and Sabot for most of it, but their reactions and attitudes will change as they get stronger and grow as people.

What I'm trying to say is that a good story is a good story (not that I'm saying mine is). I'm a lot less concerned with the tone of the story (whether it's incredibly dark or heartwarming) than I am with that it's engaging and smart and has characters that I appreciate.

[epiale]

I've never been a fan of suffering for the sake of suffering, and have absolutely dropped stories that use the main character as a punching bag because it just didn't sit well with me, but I'm not exactly kind to my characters either. Hell, I scratched an earlier version of my comic because I ultimately decided it was too pointlessley messed up.

I often see the argument that super dark stories are more "realistic", but I'd honestly argue that isn't the case. How many people do you know who watched their whole family get murdered, were sold into slavery, are treated cruelly by literally everyone, etc? Life is a balance of light and darkness, in story writing it's a matter of finding a balance that creates a good, immersive story.

In my current comic Catihorn there's a pretty wide range from comedy to some really dark shit as the story progresses, but none of it was done with the intent of being just pointlessly cruel. Every bit of darkness has a reason for being there, with the ultimate goal being interesting characters going on an interesting journey in an interesting world, and growing and developing all the while. Sometimes that means being nice, way more often that means putting the characters through some horrible experiences.

So I guess while darkness does naturally tend to permeate my stories, it isn't really the goal to shove as much suffering as possible in there. Sometimes letting your characters experience a bit if joy can be just as interesting. : )

[Nipponphile]

What is a story really about? I think in the end it's not about what the character goes through, it's about how they grow and change throughout everything. How much they've learned and shaped and grown throughout everything. That's whats unique about people -- how much we change throughout our lives. Giving that same quality to our characters make them seem alive too, and the more dramatic the change the better the story will be until at the very end the reader can step back with a breath of awe like "look how far we've come."

About killing characters off, have you ever noticed that Hollywood movies don't like doing it? It's almost taboo, and God forbid killing the protagonist at the end. But that always took away the excitement. Sitting there wondering "Will they survive this?" that edge of your seat holding your breath feeling kind of goes away when you know it's impossible to lose them, and even in the darkest pit they're "safe". That's why I think it's important to kill characters off, because they might not be characters the reader asked for or wanted, but they'll become characters the readers will cherish that much more knowing they could lose them at any moment.

[BraveHeartTatsumaki]

My characters in Final Light suffer a lot, specially Hikari and Hiroto. All my characters had or are having problems in the past pretty sad that leads them to become what they are in the comic nowadays.
With Hikari I play more about her suffering, because I want her to become a hero, but how will she be able to save someone if she doesn't know what pain is? And that also would give her motivation to not want to see anyone suffering as she did. Maybe I might get too cruel with their past, specially with Hikari, some people might call me that I overexagerate the suffering xD but some of the things she suffers are things I've seen, lived or heard, so kinda makes them be pretty real.
But also the suffering is kinda part of the story, everything started because of pain actually, in my story there are some beings called Dark Souls which are material negative beings who are feed from the negativity around.
I don't enjoy making my characters suffer, BUT I do like to later because of a "X" situation I can put the character's acting in different ways or just leave it as how he/she is, it's pretty helpful.

[kazukitakamura126]

I personally like writing more serious stories because I am a serious person myself. However, I think if you are going to make a character go through something tragic it should change them for the best or for the worst. I don't like to make my characters miserable I want them to grow into better people or into a great villain depending on how the problem affects them. As far as death you should give context to each character's death so it doesn't lose its impact or demean the character's value.

[phen]

Dark characters coming from new writers tend to take on a bit more than just a "dark" side. Like what's been mentioned here; orphaned, prostitution, prepubescent or adolescent homicide. They're too dark, they have an insatiable urge to put themselves in harm's way and the universe itself rains upon them because, darn it, they're dark! It's an attempt to explain why the character is troubled without a lot of effort. That's not to say it can't be interesting but undue torture by continually pitting the character against the odds makes it read unbelievably. I like to link it to good music pieces -- everything in movements. Crescendo, rest, climax, crescendo, rest, decrescendo. Pace the character's experiences out in good time.

For There's No Such Thing as Jason -- I.T., which is predominantly a psychological narrative, there's an abundance of anxiety and a very somber flashback but the ultimate dark character is rather vague. I'm still experimenting with ways to approach dark characters (this thread is a huge help with everyone's insight!), I hit on A LOT of common tropes so hopefully it still feels fresh!

[Lapiz_Ztudio]

I have here my main character in Redemption . he was a demon, but he's a kind demon willing to help those who in need, even though he was disgusted by so many people, abandoned by the world, hated by his mother, he keeps on doing kindness, even though he suffered a lot, he believes that life is a gift. But no matter how dark his path, he keeps moving forward, believing that there's still hope and a small ray of light for him. he disliked violence but he can't control himself when he's own his demon form. It's a pretty dark actually, because there's a lot of violence and action, and it shows how cruel reality was.

[kazukitakamura126]

I like the premise of a kind demon, despite the theme being done to the point of being cliche. Despite that fact it shows not all creatures that are perceived as evil are evil just like Rin Okumura from Blue Exorcist or the Pit bulls of real life.

[kazukitakamura126]

Sometimes it is important to put your characters through trying obstacles that readers may find uncomfortable. As long as their is context readers are willing to understand why the author made their character go through such hardship. My drama comic In The Midst a few questionable events happens to the characters but, they are there to help them improve as people.

[monotone_ink]

Suffering just for the fun of it doesn't really make things seem interesting - suffering with purpose though, that's something that most readers would be into.
Suffering should be something that progresses a character's development as they find ways around the obstacles on their path. It should be something that changes the characters, whether it's for the best or the worst (worst is the most interesting path to go down, but that's just my preference.)
It's the outcome of the suffering that readers look forward to. If the suffering only ever stagnates the character's growth, then the readers are just going to feel blue balled.

[Starfestival]

In my comic Retro I like writing dark characters with serious and hard pasts. Right now one of the main character is 14 going through some cross country journey just to stop some mad man from changing humanity to the way he sees fit. I don't really need to go on a tangent about sadism, since everyone here pretty much took the words right out of my mouth... or fingertips.

[Mharz]

Reading this thread made me realize how much I put my characters through. But I don't do it just for the sake of seeing them suffer or something. The characters go through suffering because it has to happen as a result of their own actions or the actions of other people/entities/events. The suffering has to have a root or a reason. Also, the characters dark past is the thing that shapes the current them.

I personally hate senseless violence and torture I'd definitely drop the story if i can't find the logic for them.

As for the characters in my webcomic, The Angel with Black Wings, the titular character is definitely the darkest of all the chracters there. These black wings of hers is a mark of a dark past she just can't seem to get out of. (roll end credits)

[ratique]

I used to write really uplifting, holding-onto-their-humanity type stories...and then I moved to LA and started working in retail.

Man, yeah... so true!

I am actually not a huge fan of stories that have few to none light parts in their storyline, which is why I have a hard time getting into GoT. It feels like whatever happens, the characters will suffer and die. If there is actually something to get excited and happy about, don't worry, wait a few pages/episodes and it will be taken from you in the most brutal way possible. Too depressing for me, and I can not get any enjoyment out of it.

Which makes it kind of funny that my own comic Devil's Acres is about a serial killer, and therefore dark by default. My characters will go through hell. That's just part of a story like that. But I hope they will also get moments of joy and happiness.

... We shall see I guess!

[tsukin]

Oh boy, where do I even start with this topic.

It's kind of funny cause I was just thinking the other day how my protagonist backstories get progressively more and more screwed up.

In one I had an angsty teen obsessed with the supernatural (which doesn't sound that bad, but his sister was progressively more suicidal and his parents were on the verge of divorce), in another I had a drugged up computer whizz (he was just screwed up. Like really. He was still madly in love with his ex, his brother was a bit of an enabler and he partook in pretty much every vice under the sun. When I think about it that story didn't have a happy ending at all. I mean it DIDNT but like the fact that he actually never got over the ex to begin with is sort of bad enough, but then throw in the fact he's pretty much a supped up clone, murdered his ex's wife and slowly gets pretty much everyone close to him killed or gravely wounded wellllll nuff' said. His story isn't a fluffy one at all lol.)

In my most current story we have a depressed 19 year old who's pretty much the anti-christ, which yeah. Not fun there either.

I definitely have a pension for angsty suffer laden stories. And yeah people die. Alot. And people suffer a lot. And I think it's okay because life kind of sucks sometimes, and I like to show that more than the hero saves the day. That and somehow my strangely philosophical mind just paints issues in that light.

[caleytibbittz]

I don't enjoy putting my characters through hell. It's actually a little upsetting at times for me, depending on how much hell.

The lead in Eternal Knights, Kathryn "Artemis" Kennedy, is in many ways a self-insert for the roughly 14 years I spent dealing with chronic severe depression (and her issues are further inspired by wife's even worse issues with the same) -- so, of course, Kathryn deals with depression and suicidal ideation, as well as loss of loved ones and other life events that fuel these dark feelings. When I first created the character, none of this was attached to her, and, well, she was rather pointless, honestly. It is this emotional struggle that is now at the core of what makes her an interesting character.

Another main character in my comic, Erica, has a horrible, HORRIBLE ordeal coming up a few years down the line. It made me sick when I thought of it; I actually had to get up and pace halfway through writing it down. I thought about discarding the idea of her upcoming ordeal entirely, but it is the logical and emotionally satisfying midpoint crisis for the character.

In general, clean-cut "wins" are fairly boring. I mean, they feel good, sure, but, for example (and to my taste), most the best Star Trek, Buffy, and NCIS (and etc.) episodes end on a mostly-bitter bittersweet note, or entirely bitter note. It's more emotionally charged, it cuts deeper to the core of the protagonists, and it feels more real -- making it worth it, even when it's absolutely heartbreaking (I recently rewatched STNG's "The Offspring" for like the 12th time, and I still almost cried when Lal said "Thank you for my life").

Sometimes a straight-up win can be good in fiction, but I've rarely had a win in my life A. at all, and B. without a truckload of soul-crushing asterisks. And they do say "write what you know"...

[CalConstantine]

Thank you all for the great replies! I wanted to say that first and foremost as I went through all the responses the last day or so as an excercise myself.

The reason why I put this question out as I was debating this whole issue myself, and wanted to get a peek into the grey matter of the fellow creators on this site. A lot of your points helped clear up a few issues I was running into my story board. How much is -too- much. Be it successes versus failures.

I'm going through and looking at all the comics linked ( Thanks guys!) and I see a few of the folks I already subscribed to are here as well, and reading their stories as well.

I think I've struck my balance of success versus failure, and my character, based on her personality. Thank you again for all the great examples, and look forward to tailing a lot of the stories presented here!