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Jun 2019

Never visit Texas. It is very hot where you are, but that's normal temps for us until sometimes end of September. Pedelite pops if you can find them will help.

Maybe folks can come back to this tomorrow after a cool off? (physically and mentally?)

I actually think we agree on almost every point... though sometimes internet makes it really hard realizing what one has in common with the strangers behind remote screens...

I'm sorry. I never thought that anyone should ignore what stunt women have to say.
What I meant is that if the argument is "Too many fictional female characters wear skirts. Even in situations where that makes little to no sense.", then the experiences of stunt women cannot serve as a counter-argument.
Of course, if what you want to counter is "It is absolutely impossible to fight in high heels and skirts." then stunt women and Scottish warriors are perfect counter-examples. But I never tried to say that and I'm quite confused why my rant was interpreted that way.

So, yeah. Stunt women are impressive athletes and their testimony should definitely be taken into account. But, tbh, I think they're forced to wear skirts and high heels way too often as well. To my taste, of course.

I'll probably never visit Texas because everything I've been told about that great state makes me feel unwelcome as a left-wing French lesbian... Though I'm sure a lot of what I've been told is BS.

As for the temperatures, I think it'd be easier for me to sleep right now if the heat wave hadn't been so sudden. About one week ago it was around 14 degrees celsius (57 degrees fahrenheit) in the morning where I live. So I haven't had time to adapt to the summer heat... :cry:

Ahhh, well if you want some tips for keeping your temp down send me a PM. I have tips and tricks (I can't stand the heat either)

Yup!

You do end up effectively saying they're irrelevant over and over again. I'm pretty sure HG originally shared it as more of a tangential "Hey this is interesting if you're wondering about women fighting in skirts and heels" not specifically as a counter argument.

Because you repeatedly say no one would every willingly choose to wear a skirt and fight. So it being practical and having a history of people who fight wearing equivalents is relevant.

I get that what you're actually trying to say is that there's too much of it, and particularly that it is hyper sexualized. But the words you're saying and what people are arguing with you on is a very prominent and repeatedly statement that :

It can make sense, and there are universes where it would. There's historical evidence of it happening in this universe, so clearly fictional universes could exist where it's done, and done well, in ways that make sense and are hopefully not hypersexualized.

Agreed.

Well, thank you for giving me enough context for me to finally understand what I've done wrong from the start. Also, thank you for having the patience to talk me through the misunderstanding I'm clearly responsible for.

I realize now that I was absolutely unclear... and I will unashamedly blame the heat-wave and sleep deprivation for that lack of clarity and not mention alcohol because... oops. Anyway.

What I actually take issue with is universes (fictional or not) where every male fighter wears pants and every female fighter wears a skirt. I do acknowledge that Greek and Roman fighters from Antiquity and Scottish warriors did wear bottoms that function more like skirts than pants. I have played about 120h of Assassin's Creed Odyssey with the female MC and never once felt like Kassandra was wearing a sexualized, nonsensical, impractical and out-of-place skirt.

So, this makes sense to me:
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But this doesn't:
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For reference, both characters come from AFK Arena, a Chinese F2P I'm wasting too much time on those days.

Of course, that's just the latest example that irked me among SO MANY, but really, why would Lucius wear plate armor so tight you couldn't guess his skin color if he wore a helmet, meanwhile Estrilda, who rides a horse at all times, is wearing... er... I'm not even sure what to call that.

You know I actually enjoy the threads when we all vent I think it is healthy to put our true opinions out there. I'm actually sick of bikini armors and skirts

this is exactly the point I don't agree with. We have seen stunt doubles perform the most outrageous physically demanding sequences in all types of terrain...and somehow this is not relevant??? No, sorry. I get what you are saying, I don't agree.

You literally said, "Anyway who cares what stunt actors have to say?" in your initial post..I don't think some of us are taking stuff out of context just to antagonize you. It is totally valid if you feel that way anyway!!

My intention is not to pile up or come to tell you to change your mind. I just want to contribute to what has been said.

You say stunt doubles they are told what to wear, therefore there is no choice of wardrobe. Well, female bodyguards often wear heels and they do so as their free choice, also dresses. Another example, some of my friends train like medieval warriors and they chose heels and corsets to fight because they are comfortable, in fact, their legs and feet are so accustomed to heels that they can't wear flats without feeling tired. why are men not wearing it? because culturally is not what they wear in daily life, therefore, are not accustomed to it.

Can some women choose skirts and heels when they are going to get involved in risk situations and heavy physical activity? Yes. Many others would not, but the option is there. So I'm personally not pushing for the extremes or say that all heels and skirts are bad.

I also think that in character design the artists take inspiration from the current fashion trends. I Remember seeing mangakas looking at fashion magazines to get inspired. almost all 80's 90's girls have neons clothes, glam rock hair, and mini skirts. Many of the fights and powers in the comics/mangas are so unrealistic that I understand they wanted their characters to look cool no matter the practicality. And of course, there are some fanservice motivations. But even women authors wanted their fighters to look fashionable.

I'm glad the discussion is out there, I'm sorry if you feel dismissed so far I don't think that's anyone's intention.

Well the same way I came off as completely hostile (and batshit crazy? somewhat?) to everyone, pretty much all of you came off as absolutely dismissive to me... So... we're actually okay?

It's true and I regret phrasing it like this. I know I'll never convince you, but since you seem to enjoy having a real conversation, let me try to make my point clearer (I really haven't done a good job so far)...

When you create a fictional universe, you have the liberty to make up its rules. It is your absolute right as a creator to make every fictional universe you create one where gender roles are absolutely clear and signalled through extremely gendered attire. I really do mean that. Every author has the right to make every female character wear a skirt because... they don't have to give me a reason, really.

But I also have the right as a reader to lament the lack of variety in that department, right?
If every manga and comic released in 2020 was about dragons, I would absolutely want to vent somewhere about there being too many dragons... even though I absolutely LOVE dragons.

And well... If it were only some fictional universes that forced women to show their breasts and thighs while hiding almost all skin from men... wait, maybe it is a small minority and I'm just so unlucky I keep stumbling upon video games and movies and tv shows and anime that do that... I'll admit I haven't actually done actual research and surveyed what proportion of fictional worlds exactly are forcing all or almost all female characters to wear high heels and skirts.

Happy to have hashed it out with you, and happier still you're able to clarify your point as a result. ^^

And you already know I agree that the unbalanced depiction of male and female characters sucks and needs a good shaking up! :grin:

Wow, you guys really had a whole argument about skirts and kilts and dresses and heels and stunt women and historical accuracy and who knows what else! I can't be bothered to read all that! And not only did it go on for a while, you guys actually seem to have resolved it, damn

Anyways, let's talk about main character with obviously cool design against bland, soulless npc designs! You know the ones!
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These look like the hairstyles of fine upstanding young men who will live uneventful but productive lives as businessmen. Certainly no protagonist shenanigans about to break out here!

I know putting the same effort into every design is hard, but come on. xD

I mean, look at these in comparison! Believe it or not, there's no protagonists here. Hell, no secondary characters, not even side characters. And yet... they all look good on their own! (it's all from My Hero Academia btw)

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Damn it, there's a really good shot of other UA students outside of Class A and B, but I can't share the image

I actually have a tank top like that. it's kinda funny looking. Ironically my boobs are still too big and it still stretches flat in the middle like a normal shirt

About the heels, it's funny and a little appalling, that people give female FIGHTER characters fucking STILETTOS. It's probably because I'm not used to wearing high heels, but my feet hurt after just walking around for like 30 minutes, and my sister owns wedges. These characters run, fight, and swing around and they never complain once that their feet hurt so I'm like ??/???

Mostly throwing shade at Kidman from the Evil Within, but when you play/watch a playthrough of her DLCs, you start to wonder if her feet are okay. I guess since the games take place in the mind of a psychopath, physics kind of go a bit out of the window.

Ah well. At least the heels gave the cool stab-through-the-chin at the beginning of The Assignment.

Sameness. Just within the world of the comic/series. Other people have brought this up, but I find nothing inherently wrong with the anime aesthetic, or overly sexualized characters, etc. etc., so long as you can tell the entire freaking main cast apart in a line-up. And by their silhouettes, not just their clothes or color schemes, and so on.

A character's design from one series can potentially remind you of a character from an entirely different series, and that's fine! The so-called "CalArts style" does not bother me. Nothing is original, and everyone is inspired by everyone.

But character design is hard and time-consuming, so you gotta do what you gotta do -shrugs-. At least in animation/anime you have the added bonus of distinctive voice actors. That's my measly hot take :slight_smile:

  1. When complexity = good design to the creator. I have a seizure everytime I see some "regular" OC that's a desura amped to the 10000.

  2. 50 billion plasters. Why is this a thing. I do not understand and I do not find it cute.

3.Preteen girls with gargantuan boobles. IDK what kinda pedo shit people are into but it's gross and needs to stop. Preteen girls for the most part are flat as a board and have the curves of a straight line. (Some develop early ofc) Don't draw 12 yo as a sexual object, pretty much is my point.

  1. Furries. Not trying to shitpost all furries but furries look spoopy to me and they make me uncomfortable (I've seen too many 50-foot dick furry orgy artpieces to not be)

  2. This is more nippon-korean thingy, but pleated skirts that are like 2 inch long. It's very much nitpicking but I can't help but think of all the times during the story the girls(or boys) butt would be straight hanging out, and it's super distracting.

  3. This is like 100% japan specific, but holy fuck why does everyone want to screw their uncle.

starts sweating
I get it though. I only create non-sexual anthro art, but I understand the stigma.