May 2018
396 / 709
Jul 2018
Nov 2018
Stoner
Jul '18
BlackRose108

Looking at previous contests, you don't have to get worried. Popularity is simply a part of it, but not everything that matters. Judgement criteria were about the same in the past and you still got surprising results.

Of course, this time around, you got stricter judgement criteria going on, so you will have to comply with that. And you have to keep the audience in mind. The majority of readers is below their 30s. Plenty of those are even still in school. You can't expect to win with a timeless masterpiece aimed at elderly people. That is, unless they think you are actually able to draw in that audience. In that case, you are more valuable than the 999999999999999th guy whose target audience consists of teens.

Also, there are so many impressive entries that don't follow webtoons guidelines, it'll be interestig to see how they'll fare.

Oh, but forget about the superhero contest. That was a huge popularity fest. Glad they dropped that stupid voting system, paired with elemination rounds. There were several crappy entries making it to the finals. Which might also be part because of all those cheaters. :joy:

AllisonGal
Jul '18

the voting system for the super hero contest was flawed and advantages the people with lots of subs but at least these were their subs and their efforts. Now the new system's even more flawed as 40% is attributed to reader popularity which webtoon is manipulating as they are doing to a specific title right now which surpassed everyone else. it's one of the winners right there, obviously.

Stoner
Jul '18

No, the superhero contest was not about actual popularity. Voting was prone to cheating, which went totally out of hand. It had nothing to do with effort and actual readership. At least there were still judges involved in some way.

Getting promoted is an actual achievement. Criticizing the matter sounds like simple jealousy. Stop being so concious about one story topping the charts. It doesn't automatically mean it will win. Yes, it is an advantage, but that's not unfair at all. You got the same chance to get there. Talking bad about someone else's success isn't nice.

And maybe I have to make this clear- the system isn't flawed as much as you make it out to be. Discover works the way it always works. Popularity is measured the same way it's always been. Promoting single webtoons has been a part of that for ages.
Entries are published on the same platform, so popularity has to be judged the same way.
The only real flaw is the fact that people are allowed to re-upload.

The current system is literally what you are saying about the superhero contest. Being about subs and effort.

AllisonGal
Jul '18

Think what you want, the old voting system for readers was flawed but fairer than webtoon's actual system in the contest, which is even more unfair. Also stop trying to play self righteous and get offended at everything by calling others jealous if they notice anything different.. It's a fact that 1 comic from the contest's been on there non-stop since the contest started and many already noticed it, no one has anything against any author. just noticing the crooked way this contest is going doesn't mean I'm after this author or jealous. You need to grow out of this mindset that if anyone criticize anything or call out anything they are haters and jealous, that's just not true and it spreads unnecessary conflict.

OneHappyDay
Jul '18

I disagree with getting promoted being an achievement. In LINE There's no achievement to attain in order to get promoted. you could start a comic today and they can suddenly pick you to promote everywhere. It doesn't mean you've achieve anything more than others. This statement kind of belittles other hard working authors, especially the ones who's never been promoted.

Actually DUH! of course YES, in a time of contest it's unfair to promote a few comic repetedly. Usually contests have a standard of FAIRNESS. It's common sense, I've never seen a contest host act this way before. Sure I've seen contestants cheat, judges cheat, but the host of the contest openly promoting certain contestant above others for all to see and being proud of it? it's a first. Imagine american idol doing this or the Xfactor? And if we can't call that unfair then what do we call that? very fair? or wonderful? or the best contest ever?

Stoner
Jul '18

Casting shows broadcasted on television do just what you are criticising. Saying anything else is just not the truth.

And, no, it is not unfair in any way. Your popularity is judged in the same environment like always. The only difference is the seperate contest listing (which is still only visible on phones, if I am not mistaken). Not promoting contest entries is taking away features present in Discover's environment that is found every other day.

Of course getting picked for promotion is an achievement. You don't get picked for no reason. Being it hard and steady work or just a good first impression. It doesn't matter. Just dismissing the hard work of someone who uploaded nothing but a single chapter is what's belittling. You don't know how much effort was put in that first chapter or the planning stages for the rest of the story.

And keep in mind, no matter how hard and long you try, it doesn't mean you will do better than somebody else. Nobody is obliged to like what somebody creates. If something gets more popular compared to someone else's work, it's something that just happens everyday. Just because you don't agree with the success of a work does not mean it does not deserve it.

I understand that it can be frustrating to get passed by by people who seemingly come out of nowhere and you don't understand why it gets so much more attention than your own work. But it's the same for everyone.

beta1042
Jul '18

There's a number of problems with LW promoting a contest entry-

1-It's really discouraging to other creators who enter the contest. Almost like a "Why bother if they're gonna be so obvious about their favorites" Whether it is an actual favorite, and whether or not its going to win doesn't matter- this is how it will be perceived by many.

2-It's unfair to the author who will possibly be accused of not deserving the win if they do win because people will be like "the contest was rigged in your favor from the start!", when who knows, they may have won it all on their own without promo help- but unfortunately regardless of what happens we'll never know now.

3-When you say 40% of the deciding factor is reader interaction(AKA popularity) it is UNFAIR to actually push one entry to be more popular than another.

Anyway those are my thoughts on the matter...

KoalaMari
Jul '18

I'm currently one of many contenders in this contest, but I'm losing my confidence because of the "40% audience engagement" thing. I feel like no matter how good the story and art is, but if an artist doesn't have a fan-base, it's really hard to make it. I'm not saying this just for myself, but also for other artists out there with skills. Hoping that "60%" will do it's job without bias tho.

ethereis
Jul '18

i completely on board with you. this is very discouraging, esp when audience engagement is 40%. it should be as long as the story promising and can attract lots of readers they should qualify, and not counting them into judging or atleast the max portion for audience engagement (let's say fan base and popularity) is 10%. because newcomer can't even compete with popularity. but hey that's just my gloomy thought

outsiderice
Jul '18
Stoner

Don't forget luck.

And yeah, people should stop worrying about how other entries are doing, you're just psyching yourselves out.

Anyway, idk how their promoting works (afaik we can't know for sure, has anyone asked i'm curious?)

But say they do choose personally the comics they recommend (we're talking about that right?), what is wrong with that? It's their platform, of course they can choose what they want to feature.

Now onto more contesty stuff.

I'm gonna address the points @beta1042 made cause it seems like they sum up loads of worries around here

1- It's really discouraging to other creators who enter the contest.
Personally I think everything about making a comic is discouraging (idk about you but it's all doubt for me). Is not being able to win this contest with your story gonna stop you from continuing it??? (come on, you've already made something!!)

If you went into specifically to win the contest, well, the winner is always gonna be picked by someone, in this case the judges. You've these 3 months to appeal to these mysterious judges. Keep trying or not, that's up to you.

2-It's unfair to the author who will possibly be accused of not deserving the win if they do win because people will be like "the contest was rigged in your favor from the start!"
Ok, that's an awful sentiment which i hope is not actually wide spread.

I would understand if that happened if the entry to win didn't fulfill the episode or panel requirements but otherwise it's anyone's games.

...who's picked by the judges, who have who knows what criteria apart from the technical aspects specified. Storywise we don't know what will appeal or not, to a wide audience or to a some judges who are strangers to you.

We have guesses, but we can't really know until we put the story out there to see how it's received.

3-When you say 40% of the deciding factor is reader interaction(AKA popularity) it is UNFAIR to actually push one entry to be more popular than another.
Except 60% is gonna be from the judge score. Like, it's really what the judges pick that's going to win.

It would make sense to me that if something catches their eyes they would throw it in people's face to see how the public reacts. Doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna win, but probably means they think it's a good entry.

I think the 40% 60% is to give themselves leeway. As in, they're going to look and see what fits their criteria and obviously some of it is how the story is received, but mostly it's gonna be what appeals to them.

With maybe the exception of say, one story goes viral but it's not what they would have picked at all.

And really, what is fair in a contest where loads of people are gonna be putting their best forth but only a few are going to reach the top?? (Have you guys read shonen sports manga, I recommend, I'm a sucker for them damn.)

Really, in the end luck does play a big part, as in circumstances aligning together. So good luck everyone!

I hope this untangled someone's worries a bit?

Anyway, I've been lurking on this topic and hey, we've got this channel (it's aptly named screaming into the void) in a discord server where we share our woes about making something for the contest if you want to come hang with us!

baka_reader
Jul '18

Well there is a difference, if someone has already a huge subscribers count and just reupload a popular comic of them, instantly gaining tons of comments which weight towards the win or if someone is new on webtoons and just wanna participate in the contest. How is it even fair, even if assumed the quality of work is completely same?

Jenny-Toons
Jul '18
1
outsiderice

Here's the thing -- The two previous users were not talking about what other people are doing. They were talking about what Webtoons specifically as a host is doing. Yeah, we can get into how people are already popular and can already be promoted and favored, but we're not discounting their hard work. We're not arguing against those creators because they cannot control what Webtoons does.

What was pointed out was Webtoons's way of setting up the contest, which is more than just a contest (it's also a job interview in a sense because they're offering 80k to a lucky winner who will sign on with them and possibly get a job.)

This is outside of the contest. Whether or not someone continues their comic after the contest is over isn't what is being discussed. That's "after the fact". We're talking about "during the fact", and during the fact, it can discourage people from entering a contest when the host -- who is providing the contest -- makes it clear to other people who they're already favoring. We're not even counting the judges or the audience. The host itself is showing favoritism while the first round is happening.

First-round is from June 11 to September 13. Eight winners are picked September 21. Which means the threshold between Sept. 13 and Sept. 21 are the main days for judging. From June - Sept -- you're just entering the contest and trying to get your work in. And this is where no judges or hosts are supposed to be involved yet.

I've been accepted into scholarships and have an Engineering internship, and in the first round, you're on your own. You have to create the resume, the presentation, the essays. You have to promote yourself. The judges and host don't get a hand until they see your work. They're not there to help you advance yet.

But when you have the host -- not even judges -- promoting specific contest entries, that's when you have a problem. Yeah -- hosts and judges have their favorites. But that becomes something different they start to do things that give the leverage to other people, instead of keeping them in the same process as everyone else and maintaining the fairness. When it comes to judging, they can stake their claim for their favorites. When it comes to promotions, performance and everything else? That's left up to the participants. That is fair.

Now, what would be fair is if Webtoons promoted ALL of the contest entries. Each day, or parts of the day, the website promotes a handful of the comic entries until they get through all of them (or until September 13). If they're gonna promote comics in this contest, there is "all or none". No one would make accusations then because it becomes "enter this contest, and we'll promote you". That increases the chances of audiences voting on their own. From there, Webtoons has done its job, and left it up to chance with the audience.

seru
Jul '18

This fact is actually turning us off. :^)

From the looks of it, we are better off doing our own thing on our own terms. Webtoons is a great platform, I can tell you that much. They have HUGE and ACTIVE fanbase, and the prize money is enticing. But is it really worth the hassle?

This contest...seems too fishy to me. Webtoons playing favorites...reader engagement at 40% as judging criteria. Hmm....

I'm not holding my breath. We'll see how this goes. If we don't place or if the offer is low, we can publish a paperback of our entry in October. :slight_smile:

outsiderice
Jul '18
Jenny-Toons

My point was more about people who might be stopping now, after they've already uploaded something and are discouraged by the contest. They've already surpassed bigger hurdles against themselves, and to be stopped by something outside their control which may or might not turn out to be true would suck.

Well, they didn't specify that time frame was going to be the only judging. And considering the amount of entries there already are and that still have to enter I wouldn't be surprised if they read them preliminarily as they're entered. (tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they already had a backlog)

To me those days between the end of the 1rst round and the announcement of the winners would be more for checking requirements of their good entries who cut it closer to the deadline and making a final choice.

That would be fairer (if discover and the contest were separated).

And it wouldn't make sense, it does say recommend, a certain quality is expected, those recommended look pretty sleek, or at least their thumbnails do, and there're entries which are not to that point quality wise.

Anyway I'm looking at the recommended titles and 8 out of 15 are contest entries (I hope it stays with that half and half ratio, if not it would suck for those not in the contest).

How long does it stay the same? And I think it's interesting to note that loads of those overlap in the same category, they won't all be able to win (4 from most laughs)

So they might actually go through a fair bit of entries by the time this is done ???

Anyway, whatever Webtoon is doing or not doing, there's not much you can do about it, maybe contact them with these worries? (they could definitely stand be clearer on loads of stuff)

fleohr
Jul '18

I think most of the entries are not for the contest, it's possible that people get too excited to publish their webtoons without reading the bottom where the "submit for contest(...)" check box is always checked

beta1042
Jul '18

definitely agree with you here. Seeing how many of the entries published don't meet the basic panel requirements.

beta1042
Jul '18
outsiderice

I really do feel like a lot of people could stop mid contest. And don't misunderstand what I'm saying here, I'm not speaking for all people, I'm not even speaking for myself. I'm simply expressing what I think is highly likely to happen among a variety of creators. Yeah publishing the first ep is the hardest, but it's no walk in the park to continue producing the comic. If you already feel like you lost then many will ask "why should bother investing more hours into making another ~200panels when this contest feels so rigged?".

Like I said not everyone will think this way. And to my other points in my other comment, hopefully not everything thinks that way either. But are there handfuls of people thinking this way? Probably. And that's the problem. It doesn't take a lot of people to have those negative thoughts for problems to arise. It doesn't take many people to question the validity of something before it can attract more like-minded people. And angry people usually speak the loudest. So webtoon would be smart to consider how to fairly promote contest entries, or not promote them at all...

Or who knows, maybe they don't care because they'll do what they want. To each their own I guess XD

Hodge
Jul '18

I think the series y'all were talking about just got removed from Recommended. I wonder if they're here . . . watching us . . .

seru
Jul '18

OMFG, they did!

I think it's all about algorithm. If a series reaches a certain number of subs, they go away. Don't quote me on that. :joy:

TBH, they should just remove reader engagement as part of the judging criteria all together or lower it to like 10% or something.

Then again, it's their contest. They can do whatever they want with it. And we're just out here competing for crumbs.