Thoughts on Tik Tok (aka should it be banned)

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 00:27:51 UTC #1

Earlier this morning, I found a clip from a news report that the US Senate had passed a bill that if approved would ban Tik Tok in the US. I got excited until an hour ago where it turns out Tik Tok would only be banned on government employ phones and not a nation wide ban of the app, which is weird because from people I know who work the government, this has been a thing for a year. So like it wasnt until now that government decided to enforce the ban, but I digress.

The reason I was excited was because I genuinely hate Tik Tok. In my opinion, it represents everything wrong with social media but multiplied by a million, and it goes beyond shortening attention spans. You have kids faking having a mental disorder for views, which will influence other stupid kids to do same because having dissociate identity disorder, adhd, tourettes, or depression are cute and quirky, or trick vulnerable kids into thinking they do have a mental disability. And the fact these kids are only a few years younger than I am. Im only 20 years old and looking at this dumbasses behave make me feel old as hell. And then there are the stupid challenges like nyquill chicken, putting a fork in an electrical socket challenge, suffocating yourself challenge, or trying not die in a noose challenge. (that last one's not real but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Im just giving them ideas arent I?) All this stupid shit these dumbasses are doing for attention, influencing more kids to do it with the hope of becoming internet famous or whatever. And dont get me started on how addictive it is or how the Chinese Communist Party is using it for datamining!

Of course, a rebuttle to what I've said is that this isnt new. And that its always existed with other social media sites. Which is true, dont get me wrong. I remember when kids were swallowing tide pods back in like 2017 when I was high school. But it's never been at this scale, nor was it centered around one platform. Tik Tok is the biggest social media platform period. Its popular than Youtube, Instagram and other sites. And Zoomers are its biggest demographic and the fact the shit I've mentioned can all be found tik tok just degusts me. If tik tok would actually be banned by the US government, I feel like the world would be a little bit of a better place. It wont fix everything but its a start.

ar-ninetysix 2022-12-17 00:43:50 UTC #2

I doubt getting rid of TikTok would actually do much, man. These people are just gonna shift platforms and do their thing elsewhere. Instagram and YouTube have already made changes to short-form content in efforts of competing with TikTok, so like.. those problematic content creators have already been given a backup plan.

Teenagers are gonna be teenagers, unhinged and self-destructive as ever if left unattended.

NickRowler 2022-12-17 00:54:36 UTC #3

I don't use the app. From what I hear about it, it sort of reminds me of the beginning of YouTube which was a sort of wild west of weird content with vlogs being the most popular genre.

I do hope that the US deciding to ban TikTok is based on evidence that it is spyware and not some weird nationalistic anti-foreigner views. Because I am pretty sure there are a bunch of US based websites that collect data from users outside the US. I guess the US government is OK if the US does it but if another country does it, all of a sudden it's EVIL.

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 01:00:05 UTC #4

I cant really speak to much about instagram but Im pretty sure the YouTube community wouldn't allow those problematic creators to have a platform since their a lot less tolerant to that type of content. Commentary youtubers would rip that shit to pieces. At least thats from my experience watching a lot of YouTube growing up.

Like I know Tik Tok being banned wont make that content disappear but like.....LET ME DREAM OKAY

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 01:10:55 UTC #5

You do bring a good point but for me, I guess Im not too about the US doing it rather than China because at least you can actually call out the government in America and not get silences or disappeared. China is just a total human rights disaster (like they're still quarantining their population and are locking people inside their homes) so in that sense, Im okay with the US collecting data from users in and outside the country because Congress aint as bad as the CCP. Not saying its an excuse but it is what it is I guess.

Also you're comparison to early YouTube is pretty interesting. Now that I think about it, I guess in a way tik tok does mirror old school youtube a little bit. Like I remember finding videos that you would NEVER see on Youtube nowadays and in media I would watch when I was younger, the youtube paraodies would be similar to how tik tok is seen now. Though I dont think Youtube had teenagers trying to glamorize mental illnesses back then.

river121693 2022-12-17 01:36:28 UTC #6

US collecting data from users in and outside the country because Congress aint as bad as the CCP.

Not to derail the convo, but the U.S commits some of the most heinous human rights violation; it's just usually not on our soil. The U.S also has a massive surveillance system. It uses it to deport undocumented migrants and spy on activists and radical groups, but yeah, probably less excessive than China.
With US' COVID death rate being about the same as the previous 2 years and having by far the most cases among all nations, I think the way our government treats COVID is a human rights violation in itself. China has it's own reason for super strict quarantine..
I'm not siding with either government, cuz both are terrible. But just want to point out some biases that results from us (i assume) liiving in the West.

Anyways, I do think that Tiktok is harmful. It enables addiction through its interface and content loop. Having teenage siblings, the way platforms like tiktok which churns out quick content completely wrecks their attention span and volition. I think kids will always do things for attention (like faking disabilities) but having such easy access to audience and profit enables that even more. As someone who supports grass roots organizing efforts, tiktok has been good for spreading information, but possibly harmful in actually getting people to join organizing efforts due to slacktivism. No data to back any of this up though.
As folks point out, should tiktok not exist, there will always be other platforms like it. I'm just glad I'm old enough to experience pre-internet society and be able to parse out the good and bad of "innovation" lol

TheLemmaLlama 2022-12-17 03:02:29 UTC #7

Also going a bit off topic here, but I take issue with the notion that kids are faking mental disorders for attention.

Maybe some of them are, but I can see people actually having mental illnesses and wanting to talk about it, but not being able to bring themselves to be serious since they worry about being 'whiny' or 'angsty', so they decide to opt for 'cute and quirky' instead.

The point is if they talk about their issues in a way that's entertaining to others, they're not a burden because they're giving other people something positive in exchange for the attention and validation they're seeking.

And I don't think that 'cheapens' the experience of people who are 'actually' mentally ill; if people choose to call bullshit on someone who claims to be mentally ill, I don't think it's the fakers' fault for 'making' them distrustful of such claims. If you distrust the claim, that's fine: just ignore them. "Calling their bluff" will do nothing if they're lying, hurt them if they're telling the truth and make a significant portion of mentally ill onlookers afraid to talk about their experiences in both cases.

Edit: You did also bring up "tricking vulnerable kids into thinking they do have a mental disability" - I haven't seen much evidence that healthy people can be convinced they have a mental disability from mere exposure to random internet people claiming to have said disability, at least as anything more than a passing thought that they'll get over in a week or two, after which they'll move on with their lives like normal. But I'm open to being shown otherwise

(That's not to defend TikTok; I haven't been on there much myself and basically know nothing so I'm not going to make any claims for or against it as a platform :P)

Lensing 2022-12-17 07:49:28 UTC #8

You would have to ban all social media then and that´s not realistic.
Social media did a lot of damage to society, social interaction (anonymity)
but it´s too late to change that or there wasn´t anything that could have been done to prevent it.
There is no reason to ban tiktok and not ban instagram, youtube, facebook etc

VersusVII 2022-12-17 08:04:58 UTC #9

I get your concern about Tiktok being used by stupid teenagers... I usually look for art videos or recipe, so the stupid trends don't reach my feed. I know the trends from my colleagues and OMG, seeing 40 years old people shouting nonsense because someone went viral with that is a costant facepalm...

I publish some speed painting or videos about my comic to promote it but I admit the attention span and the infinite scrolling doesn't help in making the audience look for my content outside the platform

TheLemmaLlama 2022-12-17 08:28:12 UTC #10

I think anonymity's great; the real problem is the addiction-driving mechanisms (e.g. even having the number of followers/likes/etc displayed would hijack my brain and I have to actively resist it instead of putting my energy thinking about more productive things :'D)

Lensing 2022-12-17 08:40:03 UTC #11

That´s maybe a language thing from my site or I should have written what I mean with anonymity.
I mean that people don´t talk to each other anymore and don´t meet in real life. I think that´s a horrible
side effect of social media

TheLemmaLlama 2022-12-17 08:49:15 UTC #12

Ah, gotcha It would be nice to have non-in-person methods of communication that doesn't displace in-person methods of communication (though tbh I feel like only interactions that didn't need to be in-person got displaced (I still like in-person stuff that can't really be done the same way online, like board games), but I'm probably biased :'D)

VibrantFox 2022-12-17 11:07:52 UTC #13

idk if it puts me in a minority but i feel like its less a platform issue and more a personal issue. if kids are doing dumb things or attention spans are suffering then why not actively engage those folks and find ways to change that

like we cant deny the fact that for some parenting has shifted from talking to a child playing with toys and taking them out places like the park or the library to passing them and ipad and going "here play with that". so sure by 5 or 6 a child has a good level of basic technical literacy but like what about engaging socially with other kids, communicating and forming interpersonal connections.

as for teen years i think teenagers just do dumb things coz that when there a bit more freedom from parents and ability to make more decisions independently and sometimes there dumb as heck like eating tide pods, suffocating on spoonfuls of cinnamon or whatever else. the only difference between now and when some of us were younger is its gone from small friend/peer groups and whatever social pressure existed there to big social platforms (tiktok and other social media included)

as for information spread on these platforms, again it can happen anywhere, good or bad, helpful or harmful and so on. like chain emails still exist, spam is right there, heck facebook.

like i curate the hell out of most of the online places im actively a part of if possible so a good chunk of negatives i see people point out pertaining to social media i tend to miss unless its brought up someplace else and its always so strange to me coz im like are people not also modifying their feeds so they dont have to see those things or are they just leaving things be (which why is that the perceivable norm? genuinely)

like for once im impartial but i dont think outright banning whole social media sites/apps is going to fix the worlds problems or things wrong with individual people ┐⁠(⁠‘⁠～⁠`⁠;⁠)⁠┌

smokesalty 2022-12-17 11:54:50 UTC #14

Yeah, TikTok is a dumpsterfire.

But honestly, I still enjoy having the app. Usually I find recipes I never knew existed, funny content and art inspiration. But the app is also draining at the same time, with everyone wanting to be right in every situation (even for topics that are nuanced and don't always have a clear right or wrong side!) There's a side to the app (similar to twitter) that love having arguments and being on their high horse that pisses me off, I'm just there for fun content.

And there are plenty of trends that I roll my eyes at, but at this point I don't know how much you can avoid dumb trends online. If you wanna set your house on fire forms dumb trend, that's on you.

I personally want the app to stay, since it is also one of my main social mediasthat I can market my comic to to a large audience. Making videos is fun and simple, and I have mutuals and fans I love chatting to in the comments. it really has helped my comic grow, so honestly I personally want it to stay.

NellieVP318 2022-12-17 11:55:25 UTC #15

Not do go off topic a bit, but this is a very good point. I don't think it's a good idea to assume some of kids may be faking their disability. Granted there are people who do that. From what I learned, going after "disability fakers" harms disabled and people with legit mental illness. It's not anyone's responsibility to go after and decide who is faking it. It doesn't help the disabled/mental ill community who want to talk about their issues online in one of few spaces they have.

However, that doesn't excuse Tik Tok to be unhealthy and harmful to teens . But its not the first social media to glamorize mental illness. When I used to be on Tumblr per-nudity ban, there was kinda like that so it's not just a Tik Tok thing. Banning Tik Tok would be pointless because other social media sites do have the same issues.

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 16:00:03 UTC #16

In that context, I don't have a problem with that. In general, I don't have an issue with people sharing their experiences online and I know people will make light on their situation not to downplay or insult it but more to take some weight of their shoulders, and to help others cope with their situation. That Im fine with. My only issue comes when someone doesnt have any mental illnesses and glamorize in a way that doesn't genuine. As in they're just trying to get attention and I get that has less to do with tik tok and more with kids just doing anything to get attention. But that doesn't make it right imo for these kids to be doing it online, especially since it an come off as insulting to people who have for example adhd or depression, especially if its not sincere.

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 16:05:31 UTC #17

You did bring up a good point but I don't think its permanent. My generation is basically the first one to have grown up around social media (and Millennials too to some extent) so when the time comes for us to have children, we'll already know the downsides of social media and prevent it from affecting our children in the same way it effected us. Personally, I don't think kids under the age of 13 or 14 should have access to phones or social media. In fact, I dont think parents should drop their ipads in front of their kids and let youtube baby sit them but thats another story. Speaking from personal experience, I didnt have a cell phone until I was 12 and I didnt have proper social media access till I was 15. I watched youtube and that was about it. And I turned out okay! I didn't need a cell phone or an Instagram account to make me a better person and Im pretty sure I would've been fine without it!

What Im saying is that just because social media fucked us, it doesn't mean we wont let it fuck the next generation of kids and teens

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 16:18:29 UTC #18

I didnt actually think of that but you're right. In general, it really does boil down to how parents raise their children and less to do with social media. Im hoping my generation wont make the same mistakes as our parents did when we have children since we'll already know the negative effects of social media.

I'll be first to admit that my dislike of tiktok is partially fueled by bias along with recognizing its negative effects

KennethLopezJr921 2022-12-17 16:41:47 UTC #19

Also, just so i dont come off as faking information, the "tricking vulnerable kids into thinking they do have a mental disability" comes from a video I watched earlier where teenage girls were developing tics from tik tok videos via mass hysteria I did look up to see if it was an actually thing I found a couple of articles about the same topic. I'll like both the video and one of the articles below. Take it with a grain of salt:
TikTok Is Causing A Mass Psychosis
Why Is TikTok Giving Teen Girls Tics?

TheLemmaLlama 2022-12-18 01:35:07 UTC #20

And I guess my problem with that is; it's not always possible to tell who's sincere and who isn't. There are people who are really struggling but worry about whether they're just faking it, because they see other people constantly doubt the sincerity of people who claim to have mental illnesses. I think the cost of misidentifying a genuine person as faking is greater than the benefit of correctly identifying a faker as faking.

Thanks for the info! I'm not sure if the impact on the kids is a function of how sincere the material was though ... and in that case, it's always gonna be a difficult question. We want people to talk abut their experiences, but it can also have very real harmful effects to real people. It's hard to know where to draw the line (e.g. we don't want people who have self harmed to be ashamed of their scars, but seeing them could be triggering for other vulnerable people)