Top 5 amateur comic/novel issues

[DokiDokiTsuna]

To clarify, these are issues I've come across in my big react thread, which I recently updated for the 22nd time...which means I've skimmed through the beginnings of ~100 different comics and novels since I started it. ^^; Basically, I've seen a LOT.

And I kinda wanted to give in-depth explanations of some of the more common problems. If you ever wanted to post your work to my thread but you aren't exactly eager to hear my specific opinions on it (and you don't feel that getting 1 click from me 3 months from now is worth it...), now you can just look through these and get a good idea of what you'd most likely need to work on if you did.

1. Grammar
This is so common I've almost become numb to it. ^^; But yeah, grammar is probably the biggest issue in most of these amateur works. Particularly: random switches between past and present tense, lack of dialogue formatting, and simply making up nonsensical phrases in a desperate effort to describe things.

There's also this extremely confusing thing that happens where people just hand me...word salad. Like, it feels less like "English isn't this person's first language" and more like "this person has no understanding of English besides the definitions of certain words".
And the worst part is that this usually happens in NOVELS. o_O Comic writers usually don't do this; it's the people who have ONLY words to rely on who strangely feel confident writing in a language they simply don't know how to use.

Anyway, I feel like there are easy ways to avoid these issues...there are lots of thesauruses, dictionaries, spell-checkers and grammar tools out there, including Google Docs itself. And speaking of Google-- I think you could probably use Google Translate as a litmus test if your grasp of English is on the rougher side of the spectrum.
Try to get it to put your writing back into your native language: if you end up with nonsense, your English writing is most likely the same kind of nonsense.

2. Inadequate artwork
The other biggest issue, which even extends to novel writers in a way: when you have banner and cover art that looks like it was drawn by a 4-year-old, it becomes very difficult to take your dark fantasy/mature romance/serious spy thriller seriously.
Pro Tip:
https://www.pexels.com/ <--This is a site I use to search for royalty-free images. Find one that fits your story, slap some title text on there, and boom: easy promo art.

Anyway, for comic artists this is more complex...I will say that the #1 art issue I run into is a lack of proper expression and movement. I think this old quote says it all:

Usually when amateurs want to improve the art of their comics, they're way too focused on how 'pretty' the people look. Making sure they look like they're actually moving or reacting appropriately to what's going on comes much later, if ever. =/
More than once, I've been tricked by a comic artist who's actually really good at drawing people standing around talking in 3/4 views, but once they need to use a slightly different camera angle or just a little bit of action/expression, all of a sudden their 'good art' falls apart and it's like "wow...they actually don't know what they're doing".

And it's sad to me, because it shows that they were never taught what truly makes a comic work beyond 'a series of cute pictures'. Expressions and movements should be fundamentals to comic drawing, not 'optional' extras.

I get it, it's difficult to learn these things, and it's true that most fans won't care. But if you, personally, want to improve as a visual storyteller, you have to actually learn how to make your visuals tell a story. That means practicing gesture drawing, body language, facial expressions, even some blocking and cinematography. It ALL matters. Being able to draw a decent-looking picture of a character should be just the beginning of your journey as a comic artist, not the end.

3. "Just an idea"
This is probably the most tragic issue, especially considering that I only read the beginnings of these stories. ^^; Normally it takes a long time for this to become apparent, so if I'm already seeing it within your first 2 chapters, you got a BIG problem.

But yeah, when you have "just an idea" it means that your story is underdeveloped: It has a clear concept, but little else. Your characters are flat and spend most of their time trading exposition and worldbuilding. And/or, there isn't an apparent plot; the characters are just meandering around the basic chores and errands of the world you created, and for some reason the reader is supposed to be engaged by this. ._. Don't hold your breath.

I'll give one caveat: because I only read the beginnings of these stories, it's possible that this is actually the result of poor exposition/setup, and that maybe by Chapter 10 when the author finally decides to let the plot begin, it will become clear that the story isn't "just an idea". However, if at any point your story seems to be devoid of content/creativity, you still have a problem. Especially if that point is at the beginning: the most crucial time to hook your reader.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: characters make a story. No amount of cool lore or magic systems will take the place of engaging characters. Even if all you have is "just an idea" and you're not really sure what to do with it, using fun, memorable characters to present this idea to the audience will make them want to stay. It will also give you more opportunities to flesh out your ideas in interesting ways.

For instance, rather than trying to figure out how to make pieces of cardboard tell each other lore without boring the reader to sleep, you can:
-Have an adventurous character discover the plot while going on an actual adventure (--> "maybe I can tell this story through a series of adventures!")
-Have a reckless character make a mistake that causes the plot to begin (--> "maybe I can tie other major story beats into this character's actions!")
-Have a group of characters reveal lore/background info through a heartfelt conversation (--> "maybe I can write this story about how my awesome lore affects these characters lives!")

^And so on and so forth. Interesting characters naturally lend themselves to entertaining stories, which is the easiest way to morph "just an idea" into something more. When I'm developing story concepts, often the real "eureka" moment comes when I finally come up with a character whose personality and goals will make that concept shine, and allow an actual structured story to be told.

4. Anime romanticism
A lot of us grew up on anime, myself included. In fact, it's pretty clear that anime (or other East Asian popular media) directly inspires the majority of the stories that I come across in the react thread. There's nothing inherently wrong with that...however, there are pitfalls to taking the ideas of another culture for granted without really understanding them, and this is one of 'em.

It's that thing where a writer will simply assume something is engaging because...it's there. Probably the easiest one for most people to understand is the visual of an anime girl putting on her uniform in the morning, and running to school with a piece of toast in her mouth. Despite being a way-overdone trope, often it can succeed simply due to the cute, cozy visuals. However, if you don't take the time to set up that atmosphere...or worse, if you're using a written medium where creating that atmosphere is much more difficult, even for a skilled writer...it tends to come across as dull and pointless. Like you're expecting us to care about these mundane activities just...because.

I see this in amateur writing ALL the time. A character will be just going through the motions and we're supposed to care. A character will want a special Fantasy Job that we know absolutely nothing about and we're supposed to care. It just doesn't work, and it immediately breaks immersion because the reader is stuck wondering why the story is spending so much time on something that doesn't seem to matter.

Now when things like this happen in anime...there's a specific phrase for it that I don't remember, but it's very much a cultural thing that tends to take a certain form in Japanese media in particular. It's about finding a sort of satisfactory immersion in a certain task, or a skill, or a whole career. And in anime or other visual media, the visuals are a HUGE part of this, especially when it comes to making it clear across cultural barriers. You don't really have to "get" it or feel that way yourself, because the meticulous, expressive visuals and animation will essentially show you how you're supposed to be feeling.

People who understand that, comic artists and novelists alike, usually succeed with this kind of 'romanticism'. They know that they need to create an emotional foundation, to craft a mood and atmosphere that will make a boring task feel immersive and mesmerizing. You can't just blindly copy+paste a scene from your favorite anime, replace some of the words, and expect it to have the same effect.

(P.S. If you want an example of this from Western media, think of that scene from Toy Story 2 where the craftsman is refurbishing Woody, and getting him ready for the display case. Pixar is pretty good at this in general, I think, and a lot of Western writers might struggle less with this if they realized there are sources outside of anime to learn from. ^^)

5. Why isn't this fun
This is basically an extension of #3...but it's honestly the true death blow to my interest in any comic/novel. When you have thought things through, and determined all the setup and development that you need to do, and you're doing it...but there's just no technique. You're stuck telling instead of showing; explaining things to the reader instead of letting them experience it.

Breaking down this issue could be a thread in and of itself...it's very complex, and I've already rambled a lot (and my fingers are getting tired...). ^^; But basically, I think the best way to improve in this aspect is to just consume more media, and think critically about it as you go.

When you see a cool introductory montage in a movie or TV show, you'll probably realize that putting a bunch of cramped text boxes over a picture of a map maybe isn't the best way to go about it. When you see characters talk through strategies in a novel, taking the time to discuss their options and offer opinions and alternatives, maybe you'll reconsider having your "leader character" simply stand up and spell out the plot outline for the next chapter.

Like, sometimes you just need someone to show you how to do it right. Or that there are other options when you feel stuck. That what you might think of as a 'necessary evil' might have a clear, easy solution that your readers will actually enjoy, rather than tolerate.
When I mention 'style study' in the react thread, this is what I'm talking about. Seek out stories like yours, from professionals and amateurs alike, and find out how other people write. You can't know what you don't know...and you can only improve when you make an effort to obtain new information and apply it to your work.

[morganicfoods]

You just put all of the thoughts I have about a lot of comics and novel I read on here into words. Feels good to know that I'm not the only one who is constantly seeing these issues.

The one that I don't take as much issue with is low art quality. I'm willing to bear super amateurish art if the story is well written (although it does hurt a part of my soul GHDGSHC). Maybe it's cuz the comic I made when I was 16 suffered from a lot of art issues you mentioned, but a few people were able to look past that and appreciate the story, and I want to be able to pass on that kind of patience. And also my current art is kinda Mid, so it feels almost hypocritical for me to be super judgemental about art.

It's that thing where a writer will simply assume something is engaging because...it's there.

This problem I see EVERYWHERE. Not even just for anime influences! And done by "professional" writers! Like, take "The Force Awakens," a story that copies all its story beats from "A New Hope," but doesn't actually understand what makes the original work. It has little understanding of writing compelling conflict, characters, and mystery; it's just a shell of what the original was. To write well, you have to look deeper than just a trope or story beat's surface level, and find out why it's there and what makes it work.

I'm glad I learned this lesson early on in my writing journey. Basically, I wrote a short story when I was like 12 (i think?) that was really really good, but then I struggled to replicate my success. It was so confusing why everything I tried ended up so bad in comparison. I eventually realized that I had accidentally fit all the right pieces together by complete fluke, and every time I tried to write something it never worked because I had no clue how to make it work in the first place.

cramped text boxes over a picture of a map

Number 1 way to cause me immense pain is infodumping like this. I'm writing this to say AAAAAAAAAAAAA out of frustration. Everytime I see this I LEAVE and blacklist said comic from my reading list forever.

[TheLemmaLlama]

When I mention 'style study' in the react thread, this is what I'm talking about. Seek out stories like yours, from professionals and amateurs alike, and find out how other people write.

I'm basically just commenting to say AAAAAAAAAAAAA in response to you mentioning this I do this ALL the time; whenever it occurs to me that I want to focus on a specific element in a story, I spend days searching for every instance of other people doing the same thing XD (Though admittedly it's more out of curiosity/a burning desire to see more of A Thing I Like than anything, and also partly seeking validation that people like The Thing or that The Thing is really unique and it's actually the case that no-one else has done it yet :'D)

[darthmongoose]

Point 5 is such an important line to cross to make a comic that can organically gain readers, and in a way, it represents a line of "maturity", where instead of creating something and expecting to be rewarded with attention for it, like a child, you're deliberately putting something out there that has the intention of entertaining other people and hoping to earn attention through doing that effectively, like you're an adult and entertaining people is your job.

An immature creator plonks down their OCs and worldbuilding ideas in just any old scenario and then expects other people to find them as interesting as they do, or to praise them for having worked hard and successfully created a comic with panels and drawings and backgrounds with perspective and speech bubbles, like a teacher would on a school project. Good job, little Jimmy! You drew a whole comic and I can tell apart the characters, see who's speaking, see where they are and read the dialogue! You get an A+ for hitting every one of my marking criteria! I'm going to show the school inspectors and the PTA, and they'll be impressed by what a good student you are!

A Mature creator goes, "right. I have these characters. How do I make the audience care about them?", "I have this idea for an interesting setting scenario... how can I make it immediately tense and relevant to the characters in this scene so the reader wants to see how it shakes out?" Because they understand that hitting the marking criteria of having made a readable piece of sequential art where you can see who is who and where they are and what they're saying, is the base minimum requirement that thousands of other people are hitting, and much like a video of your kid tap-dancing, your OCs just doing any old crap is only charming to you because they're yours, and to anyone else, it's not entertaining at all, even if the technical execution is solid. You are a grown-up now; people will not give you a gold star any more just because you completed the work. You have to make a concentrated, deliberate effort to tell an interesting story and to establish why anyone should give a crap about your characters and to show them not just technically good drawings, but technically good drawings of varied and interesting stuff happening!

I think point 5 really strikes a chord for me because it's such a common issue that people can't see, and that can effect even a really beautiful comic with great presentation, and it's so hard to tell somebody, "people aren't reading your comic because you didn't try to entertain them, so it's not entertaining." without insulting them. People often compare their work to mine, and they'll measure up their art and presentation and story concept and conclude that since they appear to be just as good as me, the reason I have ten times their subs must be just pure luck, or favouritism, or my comic somehow being "more mainstream" (ah yes... female-lead queer action comic with a complex political plot in a modern Fantasy setting, that's really mainstream, there are loads of those in the charts...) or something, and it's a little insulting to me, and unhelpful to them. The truth is simple: I am burdened with the unfortunate tendency to think that I am a boring, unlikeable person, and I overcompensate, both in my interactions with people, and in my work, which I try to make as entertaining as I possibly can. Is this fawning trauma response and habitual masking healthy? Nope! BUT there is a lesson to be learned there that if you want people to like your comic, you need to have your comic try hard to be likeable and interesting, not simply believe that it is by default.

[LostKelp]

It would also be fair to say that being mature also could mean you don't care about gaining an audience or making money off your comics. I think if creators decide that they want their art a certain way and it if isn't marketable. Maturity may come from accepting that and making that art anyway.

I know that isn't what you're saying. And it's good as an artist to keep in mind the compromises you make in order to tell a good story efficiently that is easily marketable to a wide audience. Or at least to a reasonably accessible niche audience. Being mature means that you can't have your cake and eat it too, you cant show off your neat ocs and cool art and expect everyone to love it and give you tons of money. you can either retain absolute artistic integrity or change to what might be more accessible, marketable and broadly more successful (and get like 50c a month). Neither choice is better than the other. But there are outside pressures that dictate this - a lot of people can't afford the time it takes to make an unpopular comic, but a lot of people do not have access to the tools to make their comics successful. (Which seems to be a huge online presence or industry connections)

[darthmongoose]

It would also be fair to say that being mature also could mean you don't care about gaining an audience or making money off your comics. I think if creators decide that they want their art a certain way and it if isn't marketable. Maturity may come from accepting that and making that art anyway.

Yes, it is fair to also add, that a mature creator decides what they want to achieve, and does their best to achieve it. If your only goal is "I want to make cool comics because it's a fun hobby and a good way to connect with people", and you don't care about sub count, that's fine.

The problem is when people go into threads like say Doki's first impressions, or other critique threads ask for somebody's impression or critique, as though they are looking for feedback and advice on how they could grow their audience, and then when told their work could perhaps be improved, then suddenly they flip the script and say that they're not willing to change anything and they don't care about having an audience. It's like... okay, so either, you are wasting the critic's time by asking them to look at your work and make suggestions, OR you are lying about what you want to justify not making changes and still expecting success to come to you.

As you said, you don't get to have your cake and eat it. If you want an audience, you have to make your work in a way that invites the audience in and presents them with something entertaining. It's like having guests over. You want guests to enjoy coming to your house, you have to tidy and clean it and invite them, and then come up with things to do together; you can't not do that and expect people to sense that you want guests and put up with mess to be there while you sit and play videogames on your own.

I do think it's true that some people will have a harder time making a popular comic due to resources, like a big one I think is time, because I doubt I could make a comic to the standard I'd like and with a solid schedule if I worked a full-time job, let alone multiple jobs. That said, I think a lot of people could make one if they did research on how to make their pipeline work for them. I think somebody could make a perfectly good looking and popular comic on a second-hand laptop or iPad using free software, a cheap or second hand refurbished pen tablet, free fonts and stuff, and have both the money and time to do so if they were willing to put up with not necessarily playing as many videogames or not going out as much. You kind of have to decide if you're genuinely willing to sacrifice other stuff to be popular, be it money, time or "personal expression/artistic integrity". If you're not willing to give those things up, you have to be able to let go of the idea that somehow people should be interested in your work anyway, because it's so rare for a person to make a comic without any intention of presenting it for an audience to compete with other available comics and to still become hugely popular.

[smokesalty]

This is really interesting! And I absolutely agree.

When you're creating something to entertain people, you need to be able to step outside of your own shoes for a sec and see how people who don't know your story and characters would view your work. I kinda think about it like you're talking to someone about a friend you have when said person has never met them before. They don't have the same emotional connection and aren't as invested because they don't know them. Like if you tell them "my friend danced at the party," they're probably not gonna care, but if you tell them a funny story you had with your friend, then they might care or be intrigued. Like you have to give them a reason to care! And the best way is letting them get to know your characters throughout the story.

I think there's a big seperation between "comic character" and "oc," if that makes sense. When people typically make ocs, they have this big backstory planned, big dramatic events and character relationships and a cute design and they love them. But like, I feel like when you make a comic you have to take these "big amazing ideas and moments" and weave them together with less exciting events while still keeping them entertaining.

And when you make a comic, if you want it to be entertaining and good, you have to be willing to kill your darlings and make changes for the better. Learning to be self critical is so important. Like people are usually very emotionally attached to their OC's backstories and set events, but you have to be willing to say "Okay. This doesn't work. Let's try a different approach."

One bit of feedback I got when I first posted my comic (like 3-5 episodes) was that people weren't exactly emotionally attached to my characters yet- but they were intrigued. I kinda thought "oh, that makes sense. I can't really expect them to yet." What I knew writing those beginning scenes was that I wanted to introduce my key concept- cult, and the main character and villain's relationship. This led to be re-writing the first scene until it became the first episode I have up now. Originally, the first episode was literally the main character washing the dishes and talking to other cult members about exposition basically and I WAS BORED. No-one wants to see characters doing mundane things unless there's something important about it. So I shifted my focus to creating intrigue and entertaining myself. Like my readers didn't care about the characters yet, but we had mystery, a bit of a promise of things to come, and me fully capitalising on a concept not many other comics have

Like you have to be aware of your own work's appeal. Like I will promo my work and make it clear that if you want this concept for a comic- you cannot find it anywhere else (or in abundance at least) And a good execution does all the more for it!

[cherrystark]

I have one to add that does tie in with some of your points - Your eyes get bigger than your stomach.

I noticed that a lot of writers in the beginning, myself included, tend to have BIG ideas about what they want their series to be. I'm talking multi-generation space epics, etc. While I don't think there is anything wrong with having big ideas, they don't know how to execute them.

Eventually, they either stop having fun like you said, write themselves into a corner and rage quit, or they get into a beef with their artist/co-writers and the big project dies. I am not saying these projects/ team ups can't or won't work - it's usually better to start small and work to a bigger project.

[ueonts]

Yeah I think point 5 is killer, and probably the most interesting one to me. I wonder... have you ever tried using another scene or story as a "model" for your own? That is something I have thought about as a way to improve my ability to convey the set ups or story elements that I have in my head down onto the page.

[TheLemmaLlama]

It's like... okay, so either, you are wasting the critic's time by asking them to look at your work and make suggestions, OR you are lying about what you want to justify not making changes and still expecting success to come to you.

I mean, people can ask for feedback just out of a hunger for engagement and wanting to know what others think, without actively intending to use it to improve their work ... and to be fair, most feedback threads don't explicitly state "only post here if you're serious about improving and intend to put my feedback to good use, otherwise don't waste my time"

[darthmongoose]

I guess they can... Maybe that's just hard for me to relate to. I wouldn't ask a person what they think of my work if I didn't actually care what they think of my work, especially if giving an opinion required them to go out of their way to read it. It just seems like it's rude to them, and may lead to unhelpful feedback for me

[TheLemmaLlama]

I wouldn't say they 'don't care what the reviewer thinks of their work' anymore than we don't care what our readers think of our work - it's more like they're seeking engagement, like one would when promoting one's work, rather than constructive feedback (and 'I'll look at your work and tell you what I think' can look like an offer of engagement in general rather than strictly feedback, at least to me XD)

[darthmongoose]

Ahhh so you mean treating it more like a consumer review, like sending out free copies to youtubers, bloggers and reviewers.
I guess I can kind of get it so long as the person writing the thread is also on-board with the idea that the thing they're getting out of this exchange is content to talk about to an audience outside of the person being reviewed, and that the person they're talking about cares less what they say, and more that they're being talked about.

...Though I do think, if a person does submit their work for this sort of review, they shouldn't then engage with the reviewer to try to tell them why their opinion is wrong (something I've seen happen a number of times in threads like that). I don't know if it's a marketing tactic I'd engage in on the Tapas forum. It just seems risky on a platform where everyone's a creator and so inevitably their perception of your work is influenced by factors like their work's comparative performance, or their preffered way to make stuff. If I want readers to talk about my work for the sake of other readers, I'd probably put it out into reader spaces rather than creator spaces, personally.

[TheLemmaLlama]

Oh, I didn't really mean it in that way either It's more like people seeing those kinds of threads as basically saying 'I'm a free reader' and submitting their work just to get engagement from the OP themself. In that case, responding to their review is kind of like responding to your comments