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RosesnWater
Dec '20

So I’ve made a lot of alterations in my story before and for my comic this time I’m making a character trans. As opposed to all my other changes which revolves around making the plot more streamline, this is because it fit the character really well and it always felt like something was missing from this character. Like EVERY aspect of this alteration makes sense (to me). It’s not going to be a big deal and it really creates a good arc for her.

So I’m looking for some help/helpful criticism because I’m not trans and I really want this character to come off well.

First of all her real name is Victoria. Her dead name is Gotthard. She was born a boy and transitioned sometime after 16 although there was stuff in the story before that.

She IS a side antagonist, but this changes as the characters change.

She has a sister who is one of the MC’s best friends. Victoria and her sister were very poorly treated by their father. Their father prefers his ‘son’ over his daughter and is very Misogynistic, although he beats both children. Because of the misogyny and Abuse, Victoria hides who she identifies as for most of the first half of the book and only accepts her ‘Gotthard’ self and internalizes her father’s misogyny and in the beginning has very rigid views on what makes a woman vs a man.

Over Victoria’s character arc, The MC doesn’t help her or fix her, rather than that, Victoria helping her sister who is treated worse, makes her more confident in herself and a better person so we don’t really get to see this change. It’s only alluded to.

For most of the book Victoria is also in love with an ex-love interest of the MC named Emeline and they become partners by the end of the book. To demonstrate her rejection of her fathers abusive and mysoginistic behaviour, Victoria even sacrifices herself (although she totally survives) to protect her sister.

So because the story isn’t about her, I don’t go into a lot of detail about it, but I really want to know what people think? If someone who is actually a trans woman might be able to lend their opinion, that would really help. Ideally, as long as the characters are complex and well thought out, their sexuality/gender shouldn’t matter, but since this will be an alteration instead of an original idea I wanted it not to feel like tokenism or ‘forced’ diversity.

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ninjashira
Dec '20

So in my experience with trans friends and classmates, most of them have chosen a new name that is actually fairly similar to their dead name, to make the transition easier for themselves and their friends/family. Especially right when transitioning, it can be hard for people to make a switch to a new name (heck, even after I changed my last name when I got married, I still slipped up for years), so picking a new name that is similar to their old one, or at least one that starts with the same letter, makes it a little less obvious when they stutter over the first syllable.

Of course if there's a particular hatred for their dead name, then they would potentially want something completely different. But that's just been my experience so far, whatever that is worth to you.

And just make sure that your trans character isn't your only villain to avoid the "queer-coded villains" trope, or any kind of implications that her father's abuse is what "made" her trans.

RosesnWater
Dec '20

So many great insights! I’m also asking a friend of mine whose pre-op trans woman, but she changed her name like three times and it’s totally different from her original name so I think that’s why I never think about why someone might pick a similar name.

For the beginning of my story I did a lot of research into queer coding of villains (Especially in media for kids), Scar from TLK, Ursula from TLM etc. Without going into too much detail, the love interest of the MC has a fairytale about him that queer codes him as The villain and as feminine.

CBFE0119-86B6-400C-AE11-985D6B04D3BC.png600x1067 719 KB

The love interest IS feminine in a lot of ways because I like depicting feminine men, but Where the fairytale says he’s the bad guy, he’s actually the victim Irl. A lot of stuff to digest, but sums up to basically, I HATE queer coding villains. Villains can be queer but their villainy is a totally separate aspect of themselves. You hit it right on the head tho, I was worried it might seems like I’m making a side antagonist evil because their trans.

Although I’m very curious about how a horrible father Can ‘make’ his child trans?? I don’t have experience seeing this in literature??

ninjashira
Dec '20

While not specifically in regards to trans people, there is an ugly mentality some people hold that different sexualities or gender identities are the result of abuse. "You're only lesbian because you were raped by a man," or, "You're only pretending you're a woman because your father used to beat you and you just don't want to be a man like him." I'm asexual, and I can't count the number of times people asked me right to my face if I'm ace because I was raped or molested as a child.

RosesnWater
Dec '20

Oh YIKES. I had no idea This was a thing?? Half my family is gay/bi so it was always something I grew up with and for the most part we’re all really normal and no abuse (tho some of that conservative passive aggressiveness) in the family. My uncle coming out before I was even born was also really helpful, but it was always treated as normal Since I was a kid.

It’s awesome to have another ace person here on Tapas (my MC is also canonically ace, and because I have no chill I named her Aceline). I’m lucky I’ve never been told that, altho I don’t often tell people unless we’re really close because even amongst LGBTQ+ there isn’t a great acceptance. Really sorry you had to go through that tho :confused: I would certainly never want to make people feel like that I’m disregarding who they are through one of my characters. It’s also why I’m very hesitant to change the character’s gender because it makes me feel like I’m choosing that for them if that makes sense ^^’

indagold
Dec '20

Reminds me of those people brainwashed by conversion therapy and think they can change themselves but really they've been just abused and forced to hide their true self. I haven't seen that much in lgbt stories and would be a nuanced look at what self hatred and denial is like.

Just don't make her a strawman cause she's a jerk starting off lol it would probably turn away readers. I'd probably watch documentaries on what it's like being a kid living in denial of being lgbt pushed on by their parents.

RosesnWater
Dec '20

Well I mean I have a couple jerks, (including the MC to a degree) but I agree 2D characters aren’t good, whether their the bad guy or not, that’s why she’s going to be more than just her backstory or her love interest or her gender. I genuinely love this character so I hope people get to see her this way too. I’ll try documentaries but I’m always very careful since they don’t really have to tell the truth Or cover the whole issue, they can just push whatever agenda they want

NickRowler
Dec '20

An issue I take is that she is already dealing with verbal and emotional abuse from her father, why would you also add physical abuse on top of that? I feel like her backstory is treading too close to misery porn. I am personally not a fan of setting up trans characters to just be absolutely miserable or framing them as a martyr. I don't think you have to go to such an extreme.

elyss
Dec '20
ninjashira

For me, people always said I hadn't found the right d!ck yet. Or the things you said about sexual abuse. People are so rude so casually. We're ace, we exist.

RosesnWater
Dec '20
1
NickRowler

Edit: I forgot to mention, Victoria doesn’t experience verbal abuse from her father?? I don’t know where you got that from, she only internalizes his Misogynistic perspective of women, none of it is directed at her.

I know there are instances of people who will take advantage of making the pain people experience irl sensational and dramatic in comics and other media. I can’t say I don’t do that, because I honestly don’t know what your threshold tolerance for ‘Misery porn’ is. I’ll just say that in a 1700s Historical Fantasy set up in A novel of 200,000 words There’s is only ONE time I depict violence against Victoria and it was a rifle shooting incident Where she jumped in front to protect her sister. Not because she’s a martyr (The definition of a martyr being someone who dies for their beliefs) Or someone destined to live a Perpetually miserable life. She did it because one of the few people she loved was in danger and I couldn’t see the character acting any other way. After that she survives and gets to be Happy with the one she loves despite her past. I don’t focus on the abuse, but the recovery and connection between people (also I’m really bad at drawing action/dramatic scenes so depicting abuse is also not really within my ability).

I probably didn’t give a good description of the characters actual situation in the comic since I didn’t want to overburden people with details On a forum post, and I want to acknowledge your point as much as defend my own work, so I’ll keep it in mind in the future scenes

RosesnWater
Dec '20
elyss

Ahh gross. Not a fan of ‘find the right dick’. Why must people talk about romantic partner like they’re only just a set of genitals -_-

An_Alias
Dec '20

Hello!
I'm a trans man, so not quite who you're looking for. I think that the representation is a good thing, but I don't like that she has to be a character who goes through a lot of abuse. It feeds into some really common rhetoric against trans people (that abuse/trauma causes gender dysphoria).

I do have a few notes about denial and gender dysphoria that might be useful in writing your character if you need that.

RosesnWater
Dec '20

Notes are always helpful and I will always take advice.

I’m feeling really at odds with the depiction of abuse and it being an issue. I don’t WANT to perpetuate a stereotype, but the father’s nature isn’t something I can get rid of either. it’s a part of the plot in a big way that affects the main conflict and literally everything else. Victoria’s sister is totally straight and cis gendered and gets worse treatment from her father.

I want to say It just happens that Victoria is trans and that she has a bad dad, but I get that people can read into stuff. My question is: is there anyway you think I can keep the shitty father and still have Victoria be Trans and not fall into the stereotype? Is there some way I can depict this where it can avoid perpetuating the myth that abuse causes gender dysphoria? I would really appreciate all help to avoid that.

An_Alias
Dec '20

You could make it clear that there are/were signs of her being trans before the abuse really got going. Separating scenes of her expressing her gender from scenes of/mentioning/alluding to the abuse would also be a good move.

There are trans people who go through abuse, and there are trans people who are traumatized. As long as you clearly separate the causes of the issues from one another I think it should be fine.

An_Alias
Dec '20
RosesnWater

(Notes about denial and gender dysphoria)

Not everyone experiences dysphoria the same way (or at all), so this is just from my experience and the other trans people I know:

Danial feels gross. The dysphoria is always there, usually starting around puberty, but it can be really hard to figure out what is making you feel gross and why. If you aren't raised with the language to describe it, or with the concept of trans people existing, it is extremely hard to figure out alone.

Figuring out that you're trans makes dysphoria worse. Sometimes things that seem like they would help (clothes, hair, makeup) also make it worse because of shame or it not looking the way you want it to (especially in the beginning).

Most people (at least that I know) don't start transitioning in any way for about a year after they crack their egg. Changing your internalized perception of yourself can be really difficult even if it feels right.

Everyone goes through a few major doubt phases where they think they're somehow secretly making it all up for attention or something.

Also, being trans can be a kind of trauma on its own. It can make it difficult to connect with being a person. Disassociating is pretty common.

RosesnWater
Dec '20
An_Alias

I’d like to do the character justice but I’m not sure if I can show any of what you’re saying without it being out of character for either of the characters.

The only problem with going into all that depth is That Victoria’s not a main character because The book is first person and the MC doesn’t talk to Victoria (not because she’s trans but because they Both fought for Emeline’s attention and Victoria won). So they avoid each other. They have about 5 scenes together in the whole story.

I know I’ve already asked a lot of questions, but here’s one: is it possible I skip over gender and abuse? There may be a brief reference to both, and when it comes to flashbacks and present times There will be a difference in her gender, but it’s not a big deal? It’s just universally accepted that she transitioned?

An_Alias
Dec '20
1

You could have Emeline mention something about it briefly, or another character that spends more time with her maybe Though if you're just briefly mentioning both themes then it should be fine. I interpreted them as being more involved concepts from the initial description. If you're only mentioning the abuse briefly, and it isn't very important to the character development, then I'm not sure if it needs to be mentioned at all. I don't have a clear idea of your plot and theme though so maybe I'm missing something?

Edit:
The last part here is a bit of a nitpick on my part :sweat:
It should be fine!

RosesnWater
Dec '20

That’s fair, I think I just made the forum piece to make sure what I was doing wasn’t horrible. I felt very self conscious about changing the gender of a character (Especially making them trans). If it’s not mentioned at all, then maybe that’ll work. The theme for the main character and everyone else is even if not everything’s right, you can still be happy, like triumph over adversity ^^’ and I really appreciate your notes. I am planning on making a story with an actual trans person but that’s far from now and still in the workshop.