Tropes and clichés you don't like, and how you'd improve them

[MovieNut14]

As I said on the original forum, I really don't like the "character A can't bring themselves to tell character B they love them" trope (likewise with its sister trope of "character B is amazingly oblivious to character A's feelings for them).

Unless you have a good reason for it -- i.e., character A is just terrible at talking openly in general, not just about their personal feelings (read: social anxiety) -- there's really no reason to include it in your story; it's just lazy.

[DualDragons]

Let's see, I've beaten up the old horse of prologues a lot in the past so I'm gonna shed light on another trope I do raise my eyebrow on.

The trope of the instant sword draw sword sheath kinda annoys me at times. You've probably seen it before, but I'm referring to the OP sword characters in media who are supposed to be so good that they sheath and instantly withdraw their blade while a bunch of slashes in the air slice and dice the opponent. It just feels really lazy to me and I don't feel like it does justice to a skilled character at all.

The solution? Actually do research on sword choreography and show their skill. It makes them seem much more competent in my eyes.

[ar-ninetysix]

@nathanKmcwilliams don't tell 'em about those black metal bands in Norway, there's quite a few of 'em actually commited crimes lmao

@MovieNut14 the "good" reason is usuallyyyyy prolonging the story! I feel like the anticipation of an effective confession is what the author usually bank on for this one. That's a huge part of the appeal of a romance, isn't it? I'd just focus on a longer setup of developing an attraction rather than focus on the potential of a confession.. That said, social anxiety's a good excuse for it lol

[nathanKmcwilliams]

@ar-ninetysix yeah those guys are NUTS. Black Metal and it's many subgenres has a very toxic community. Probably one of the worst out there. (Not all of them of course) but any fanbase will have radicals. That's what I meant by the lowhanging fruit statement.

[NickRowler]

I dislike the “Not like other girls” trope.

What wrong with it:
It’s attempt to fight sexism can sometimes turn into reinforcing it (ex. “The mc is not like other girls because she reads books”, it seems to imply most girls don’t read???) Not like other girls also unnecessarily vilifies feminine features and hobbies.

How to fix it
Have a more diverse cast of female characters and that being different isn’t a competition. Show that a tomboy can be friends with a girly girl.

[AmysGames]

As someone with social anxiety, I feel very natural writing characters who can't confess to a crush, haha. That said, I can see how it would be annoying when there's no obvious reason for the character to be anxious about it.

As for tropes I hate, I feel like I don't care too much to be honest? Like OP said, it really depends on how they're used. As a kid, though, I remember I liked to make fun of the "turn your back on your opponent because you think they're dead, but oops they're actually not dead!" trope a lot.

(Ways you could use the trope effectively: to show a character's inexperience, maybe a more experienced character could call them out for it)

[cherrystark]

Tying in with @NickRowler. That men and women can't be friends and the silent, longing best friend/love interest. In movies, men hang out with men. Women hang out with women, maybe the stereotypical gay guy.

Fixes: Show that men and women can be friends or default to a brother/sister dynamic. Jealousy need not apply. I had guy friends hang out at my house everyday because they liked spending time with us and would often ask our advice on their problems. An ex-bf introduced me to his female best friend and we clicked immediately.

***With m/f best friendships, I think they need to be celebrated and shown just as much as any relationship (platonic relationships) included. A crush can fade away pretty fast but choosing to love someone and adopt them as a member of your family, is just as important as any romantic relationship.

[joannekwan]

Trope I'm tired of seeing: the naïve virgin afraid of sex

How I flipped it: So my protagonist did start as a virgin, but with foreplay, she becomes open to it and is more curious than hesitant. While she remains a little naïve in other areas, sex becomes something familiar to her and she grows to love it.

[HippieGhost]

I HATE secondhand embarrassment and "cringe comedy". It's the one trope I can't really say that I'd want to improve. I just want it to die. Putting a character in an embarrassing situation for their development is one thing, but so many shows and stories make it a thing to be laughed at, and it just makes me want to shut off the tv or throw my monitor across the room.

For a trope I'd want to see improved? The pervy guy character in anime. Its usually a self-insert of the author or someone else that makes creepy pervy comments to the show's girls, and its treated as a source of humor instead of a problem. Just once I want to see that character actually meet with the consequences of their actions and either grow as a person or get killed off (or removed from the show with a restraining order, idc. just get rid of him if he's not gonna improve.)

[ar-ninetysix]

@AmysGames Yo, I'd love to do that for dramatic irony (or comedic, I guess), where they'll strategically play dead and it backfires lol "hmmm better double check" and their actual death is just quick and anti-climactic. That wouldn't work for everyone, I know, but like it'd be up my alley if anyone did that lol

@HippieGhost I can agree with you on the secondhand embarrassment.. I can't really think of any benefit you'd get out of it by allowing it to be in your content, and if there were any benefit, I believe it'd be outweighed by the bad. It's a hard one to improve on tbh very situational for when it's effective as well, I'd imagine

[cookieroach]

I'm tired of the isekai/reborn as a baby trope. Mainly because it's been done so much and it's not appealing to me.

Solution: The protagonist gets hit by a truck and wakes up as an 80-year old

[rajillustration]

What bothers me about tropes is when they are a paint by numbers formula--someone has their writing guidebooks open, maybe a TV tropes page, and is just copying beat by beat exactly what should happen at any given moment. Predictable characters are the worst because being bored is the worst.

I think a trope character or trope plot point can be a great time if my expectations are subverted in some way. Keeps the trope feeling fresh instead of dated because we do have fads of tropes. Like in the way One Punch man mixed up superhero parody--not by doing anything that hadn't been done before, but in a way that subverted expectations of how a superhero parody should be. It became a story about so much more than just silly comedy.

[ar-ninetysix]

Ok, cool, so what don't you like and how would you do it better? You can't just waltz in here and ignore instructions lol

@DiegoPalacios This includes you btw pls follow my rules, it's literally just two of 'em

[rajillustration]

I literally said it!

[ar-ninetysix]

Nonono you described how someone else did it better, gimme your hot take and some ice to cool it down

[Van]

hmm, I guess since I mentioned this trope in a similar thread: carnivorous guy

A carnivorous guy is that one male character in shoujo manga who won't piss off and acts like a total dick and pervert to the heroine but it gets excused because he handsome. (example: Usui Takumi from Maid Sama) Often times the excuse is that "yeah he's a dick and honestly plain abusive at times, but it's just cuz he loves the heroine!"

what, that makes no sense, if the person who "loves you" treats you like shit and mostly like a sexual object anyone with enough self confidence would drop their ass. Then again, many shoujo heroines don't tend to have much self confidence.

The way I'd improve it, or rather the way it has been improved in certain works, is to actually acknowledge that the character is in the wrong. Actually get consequences for their actions and mellow out from their initial dickish behaviour instead of keeping it up throughout the entire run.

Another way is to make the heroine or whoever the love interest for the character is headstrong and able to put up with the antics, acknowledging that they care about the character but do get pissed off instead of swooning at every action. Sometimes they are the main reason the carnivorous guy mellows out and becomes and actual decent lover instead of just a one dimensional sexual fantasy made by very lonely women.

[rajillustration]

lolol here I am trying not to be a hot take that would make any one person feel bad if the happened to be using this trope, didn't realize this was a hot take thread. But sure, why not--I think any trope can be a cardinal sin, honestly, if it is just boring...So a trope I don't like is the best friend superpower trope. It basically forgives any protagonist for anything they've done wrong because, so long as you have good best friends--you'll defeat the final boss. It can be nice, but usually, especially in kid's shows, it's just a lazy way to end the show.

So a way to subvert that trope is to allow your protagonist to get a self esteem, honestly, and use their own powers and intellect to do in the final boss. Isolate your mains, so they can't call on the friendship trope, and so they can prove to me, the viewer, that they're worthy of being the protagonist.

[bakasama25]

That seems to be based on how Japanese men have difficult time trying say, "I love you". I had a Japanese teacher recount the time she went to a wedding and the groom's friends dare him to say, "I love you" to his bride. He had a difficult time trying to say it. I couldn't tell why it is but seems to be thing reflected in Japanese media.

[ar-ninetysix]

I actually quit watching Maid Sama bc of Usui lol that "soft side" of him never came out enough for the behavior to be tolerated imo it's a shame too bc I actually did like the rest of the characters and their interactions, I keep debating whether or not I should just finish the show since I got halfway through it.

@rajillustration thank you, a worthy contribution. But fr though, that's the whole point of trying to fix the trope! To see if we can approach it from a better angle, and improve on it instead of just ranting about it~

[DiegoPalacios]

But no...they'll just pick the lowhanging fruit and continue to press the narrative that has been prevalent since the 80s that we're all cavemen who sacrifice cats.

Some of my school friends were in a metal phase during their teens, and can confirm no murder desire was born from them