Visibility on Tapas

[joannekwan]

@darthmongoose I had that very same blue book! xD and HEY I still use its technique on how to color cabochon jewels! Quality or not, she still got a book deal at 15, that's a feat in itself!

@Kelheor Aaaaahhhh, that explains it!

[carloswebcomic]

That's a bloody good point.

[LordVincent]

Just hopping in as another person to confirm the sentiment previously brought up in this thread: popular and premium artists do not feel welcome here.

It's crazy how different people treat you in these spheres when you start seeing even the smallest bit of success. I started out as a small creator too, and saw the most significant part of my growth before tapas started spotlighting my works and asked me for a premium pitch. But the attitude frequently seen on here is that we all cheated our way there, cut corners, and will never understand the struggle of the small folk. If we provide our advice or input on anything, we have to brace ourselves just in case someone has a bad day due to anxiety over their comic not being "successful enough".

It's especially sad because it contributes to a special type of loneliness. See, when you grow in numbers you are already forced to distance yourself emotionally from your fans and obtain a more professional approach to them. The reason for this is that emotions are exploitable and can be spread to hurt you. People can start rumors, or get under your skin, or decide to obsessively start attempting to become your romantic partner. The last one especially is one I've had to deal with. Some people pull the last one but replace partner with best friend...

Add to this that many of us, especially in webcomics, already had few friends to begin with. You have to be a bit of an oddball to provide something people will notice, and many people in webcomics are lgbt people. In my case, I'm a trans gay goth dude living in a small town. Imagine trying to make friends.

And then you get rejected by one of the few communities you felt welcome in. Just because of numbers. Oftentimes, that weird trait you have that locals reject you for, is also turned into one of those "cheats" people accuse you of. "You only got where you are because you make gay shit". "Tapas treats you special because you are trans and they want to seem liberal and cool". "Edgy vampire bs may be popular, but that's because audiences don't know REAL QUALITY". These are just attitudes I personally have faced, so I'm sure there are many other variations...

It's all to the point that now when I meet new people, I usually try to avoid talking about the numbers. When they ask my job I just tell them I'm an author and illustrator. "Not that big, but it pays the bills." Even though I am proud of my growth as it's probably my biggest accomplishment in my short life, I have to keep it on the hush hush until I know a person close enough that I can trust they won't treat me different. I avoid letting people know where they can read my comic unless it becomes socially impossible to do so, just because if they look it up they'll see that number and it will change everything.

The one social perk I've gained is I can shut up those grumpy assholes that try to imply art isn't a real job and won't earn any money. That's when I ignore my usual practice and spit out numbers and earnings right at them. Satisfying, but will it ever compare to the social life I'm locked out of? Not really.

[travelercomic]

That's gotta be rough. I think it's very easy for people on the outside to see someone successful and make wild assumptions as to how they got there. It's as if no one is allowed nuance except for themselves.

[Kelheor]

But when exactly did you start to feel like this? I am genuinely interested here. Did it began after some particular amount of subscribers (50K, 100K, I dunno)? Did people started to understood you make good money from this? Or maybe you went Premium or just viral?

[LordVincent]

To be honest the attitude changes could be seen in some parts of the webcomic community already at a few thousand subs, but at 20k was when I started feeling like I was viewed as the devil in the room, so to speak. If my memory serves me right, this was all growth I did through my own power. I had gotten on new and noteworthy once with a different comic, but that comic never got all that successful. The 20k mark I got to through the same tools as all creators had available to them at the time, but it was seen as if Tapas had somehow cheated me to that spot. Then when I started being spotlighted and became premium, it was frequently used as an argument AGAINST me and any point I had to make, trying to point me out as biased.

These days I rarely post here because I just don't feel welcome and any post I make runs the risk of adding fuel to the flames in any discussion. It would make anyone rather anxious, and I know there are other big creators who feel the same way.

[carloswebcomic]

Well, absolutely.
And it's a very sad thing, indeed.

Now, this is the way I see it.
Please be advised that I could be just talking bollocks as this is just the explanation I've come up with in my head.

Webcomic communities have always been like that.
Generally, people are pouring their soul into their work. It becomes an extension of them.
They work very hard without much in return.
For many, they will not find acceptance in an audience. They are being rejected, constantly. So, of course, emotions run high.
When you're down and out, the last thing you want is to be faced with someone successful. It's just human nature.

Unfortunately, if you find success, you have little option other than detaching yourself.

Please, do understand that I have a much darker outlook on life as I suffer from chronic depression, so don't take what I say as balanced, but making friends, in general, in the webcomic community, is not a good idea.
Sure, you will find some great people who will support you and be happy for you. I've been fortunate enough to find a few people like that here. But as a whole, webcomics is a brutally competitive field where visibility is limited.
Whether it actually warrants competitiveness or not, it's debatable, but I would advise against expectations of friendship from the webcomic community, specially if you do better than the rest.

Again, this is just my personal view. I'm neither successful nor particularly good, so my exposure to what you're going through is very limited.

[LordVincent]

I gave up on finding friends in the webcomic community long ago. My point was it contributes to an already growing loneliness that is frequently seen among people in this situation, and that parts of the community don't just stop at being angry and jealous, but straight up use the things we are discriminated for irl against us in some... weird twisted manner where it's suddenly an "undeserved strength point".

[carloswebcomic]

Yeah, it gets pretty fucked up.
It's an angry, ugly monster that will use whatever they can find against you.
I was on the receiving end at one point many years ago when I had a moderately successful comic, and since then I've learnt not to be too open about my personal life.

[Kelheor]

I see... Thank you for sharing. Feeling bad it's happening to you and that other authors don't recognize all the work you've done (and wow, you've created so many comics!). I wonder if it's the same in the art community as a whole... it feels like it is.

[jensrichard77]

I gave up on finding friends in the webcomic community long ago.

I like to be your friend.
And I don’t get jealous because I will never be more than an odd stick figure trying to fit in between great artists

[LordVincent]

I've seen artist communities that are equally toxic but usually in a slightly different way..? In the artist community at large, the debating point seems to be more around what is "real art", "real quality" and what isn't.

[carloswebcomic]

I don't know why but this made me laugh so much!

[LordVincent]

Stick figures are friends, not food?

[jensrichard77]

I’m... Glad?
Guess we are frinds now?

[KRWright]

@LordVincent You summed up my life in your post.

[Zugaikotsu]

It reminds me of the "Eye of Argon" situation... I'm happy that this young woman found a way to cope with this. Unfortunately the author of this book I mentioned didn't accomplished the same endurance. Didn't know the name of this situation you described, but yes, not being in the "level" of professoinal exposure and be promoted as such might get you more harm than good

[travelercomic]

God I'm really glad all you Premium folk came out to bring up your two cents.

And that everyone has been respectful about you doing so. I think your insight shouldn't be discredited as biased. Everyone has biases and there's no problem having them so long as people are open and honest about those biases. It doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't have a voice on the forums. I even think it's fine to be against premium comics on principal, but there's a difference between not wanting to support them and treating those who make them poorly. Maybe if more people spoke up like you're doing now attitudes might change.

You shouldn't have to speak up, and really you don't have to, but I think it's been a really nice change of pace around here if I'm being totally honest.

I honestly think most people on the forums are perfectly fine with premium creators and welcome them, but it's that constant vocal minority that cause stinks. Or they'll just use it as an excuse to deflect from something they don't want to hear... that's always a possibility.

[Zugaikotsu]

I think I have witnessed this situation of yours here in the forums, too. Not only with you, but with authors who were the "darlings" of another platforms, not being able to state opinions because they were 'biased' since Daddy had their backs. I'd love to share and hear experiences about the "premium side"of the fence but I also got my kicks, too. And what does a person do when they don't feel welcome? They avoid interaction! xD

[GabiWolf]

See this is so sad, and you are actually one of the authors I did research on when I first started, because you are at the level of success I wanted to be.
People that feel insecure about their work or uncertainties about making this a full time thing, don’t even have access to the people that could really answer their questions because those people have left the forums or are to afraid to answer questions.

I looked at your patreon set up, looked at all the answer threads you answered on here. I mean if you are a small creators have doubts why push out the people that can assure you that your dream is possible?
Another thing people don’t understand is the fact that most people build their audience from outside of tapas, and every time someone suggest to make an Instagram profile or something they are up in arms. And not knowing how to use an app is not an excuse, watched hundreds of YouTube videos on how to run an art insta. If you want webcomics to be your job you have to do the work. And your work could me a lot easier and streamlined if you had people who have done this all before sharing their experience.
Those people also don’t owe you their insight, it is a kindness, and if they feel unwelcome why would they share?