Webtoon's new user agreement is... uhh... super sketchy?

[river121693]

yeah the wording is still terrible, confusing, and totally vague. Im still keeping my ears out as well. I don't think it's too much to ask for a company that makes 100 million USD a month to be clear and transparent on their ToS lol (though maybe the vagueness is the point for them). If Tapas can make things clear, there's no reason for Webtoon cant.

[simonitropunk]

So, let me get this straight... it does sound very confusing before deleting my comic.

So, with this new TOS, they won't use any of our characters, stories, creations and all and they won't have any liberties to tamper with the contents inside?

However, they can sell merchandise like selling t-shirts, etc... they can use your art without your consent? I'm totally confused and would love a bit of clarity.

[river121693]

My understanding after talking to someone who said they work is with Licensing contracting, and a few others who know more than me is that:

The TOS license to Webtoon whatever images you post to their site. It does NOT grant them the use of your characters or story to, say, make a Netflix show. Your unique characters and stories are your intellectual properties, and require a separate licensing agreement call “IP Licensing.”

It does seem to allow them to take the images you posted on there and do what they want with it, including merch. So they could take a panel from your comic and print it onto a shirt without asking for permission. The new TOS also allow them to edit and alter your images— so they could, for example, resize it for an ad.

I’m not sure how far the extent of the licensing is— can they take your images and completely alter its color? Can they print out your whole comic and sell it with your permission? I don’t know. The vagueness is apparently intentional for their own legal protection

From my understanding, prior to this latest agreement, webtoon had to contact creators to ask for permission before they could use their comic for promotional materials. Now they can just take it.

This is webtoons response to someone’s email today. Notice they said “webtoon DOES not create derivative of your work” instead of “Cannot” . Apparently the agreement pop up is also gone so they might be rewriting it?

[AxemanRifflord]

From my understanding, prior to this latest agreement, webtoon had to contact creators to ask for permission before they could use their comic for promotional materials. Now they can just take it.

Naver is a very professional company with a very deep respect for the craft.

[conventurecomics]

If this is true WT takes our creations and sells the merhcandise off of our creations for their prophet and don't give us any royalties, or part of the pie is this stealing? On tapas they give us part of the pie when we get on board with merchandise is this correct.

[river121693]

Tapas ToS specifically lays out the guideline for that

Webtoon doesnt, which is part of the isssue, really

[Kelheor]

No one is stealing anything.

https://twitter.com/miss_fester/status/1674273482736058374?s=20

[BlairFujin]

ehm... let's be honest, people whose work they'd want to make merch of aren't really attending this forum... we're also not the ones they'd want to use for an instagram ad (which this tos seems to be more about)

[Headypigeon4180]

I've deleted my profile, account and deleted my comic. I'm not taking any chances, all of this put me on edge very badly. I am sad that I felt the need to jump ship, I love all my readers and I am a little bummed out. That being said Hawk and Flo Adventures struggled a lot on Webtoons in the first place. Without a properly dedicated site forum it was more difficult to promote the comic. Which is something Tapas, Globalcomix, Comic Fury and The Duck webcomics all have.

Most people who were subbed to the webtoon mirror did so to support the comic, the majority of my readers didn't chose webtoon when given the choice of the other 4 sites, the' our comic is on page' and the recommended reading list made it much easier for my subscribers to know where to find my comic, contact me e.t.c. A massive chunk of my readers found the comic through my twitter page which is still growing and is active.

The community was the reason I put up with a lot of the garbage that was going on with webtoons. I consider the community family and they were nothing but supportive of me in the year I was on the site. That being said the site itself is pretty bad overall.. When your site lacks notifications and you can't click on names to go to profiles. Yet the consensus worst thing about your site is the rating system. This controversy for many people (including myself) is the straw that will break the camel's back as it were. I haven't been around the webcomic scene for that long I'm still learning a lot of the ropes, but I will cherish the memories I have spent with other creators and readers from all platforms.

If you chose to stay on Webtoons that's up to you we all have different circumstances, I took mine into consideration and truly thought about it and I've made the decision to pull the plug.

[conventurecomics]

This new thing It seems sketchy tbh. Still don't know what WT plans with canvas. It kind of makes me think should I continue posting there or just post on here more.

[river121693]

The email reply say they "do not", not "can not." The new ToS does explicitly allow them to if they chose-- though I highly doubt they would, and that has never been a part of what they do.

@Animefanka I dont think people should agree to contracts because "it likely wont hurt them." They should consider that it could hurt them. Webtoon makes millions a month. They can afford clearly laid out ToS like Tapas. Artists are both their content and audience. All artists should be critical of the contract they sign and demand clarification.

[vapidink]

Yeah, so it sounds sketchy, and when you look at contracts, a lot of things can sound that way when it's in lawyer-speak, but as far as I know, they can't just make a show out of your work without your consent. Individual rights have to be purchased for everything, audio, visual, literary, etc. For each right they purchase, they'd have to specify a payment you can negotiate, and you can look these things up to make sure the percentage you're getting is appropriate. For publishing, they'd also have to specify payment for different editions (paperback, hardcover, special editions, etc.). They also usually give you a timeline for when the rights to any of these things will revert back to you and how much they are willing to pay to buy back the rights and for how long.

A contract taking all users rights just for using a site would not hold up in court, especially as there are most likely underage users/creators. Underage users approached for adaptations/publishing/etc. would be asked to have their parent/guardian sign the contract as well.

I'm not a lawyer, just have some experience with contracts.

[abigaillmartin]

Webtoon is a big headache for me to log in anyway plus no one is reading my stuff on there anyway. I have no desire to update it because webtoon already gives me a crappy time.

[thecrystalrook]

and this ladies and gents, is why copyright laws are important in a world that puts profits over ethical practice. opt out of that agreement if possible. I don't think anything you uploaded prior to the agreement is subject to it, since it didn't exist yet. But I can't say for sure. Pull your content if you feel it necessary.

[river121693]

ok, so they rewrote their ToU
This is the clarification I was looking for, which limits what they can do with our work to only "promotions."

I still have issue with their arbitration clause, because I dont think artists on Webtoon can ever afford that, but I dont think that's going to change anytime soon.

[MaxFF]

This change does look a lot better. I think its great to see artists standing up and demanding some clarity, and not just accepting the vaguest clause imaginable, "because its the industry standard," it actually made a difference.

[conventurecomics]

What about there new plans to canvas are they going to do something to replace canvas sometime?

[river121693]

oo I havent heard about that. Whats happening?

[conventurecomics]

I'm not sure what is happening with the future of canvas publishing or what plans they may have for it. I was wonderding myself if you know of canvas plans. I guess the new user agreement thing is what updated over at WT, and it seems to me that WT has plans for the future of canvas publishing. I don't know what the future of canvas will look like. It's confusing at WT.

[DarkSena]

Actually this thing was discussed before the ToS even came in effect, but they made a change in the wording, assuring all Canvas artists that they have no intentions to make any derivates and put out a clarification notice after many artists started panicking