What Do You Want to Read?

lempi 2016-07-20 15:34:37 UTC #21

I was gonna post something here, but man, you really hit the nail on the head! I feel like the characters should be what really carries a story, since the characters are what makes you want to stick around and find out what happens next. Getting emotionally invested in a character's life, almost like they're your friend or family, and watching them grow and change is what really makes the difference, I think.

quakeulf 2016-07-20 15:51:10 UTC #22

Hard sci-fi with lots of action with no supernatural/psychedelic elements to it.

Pandastrophic 2016-07-20 16:05:24 UTC #23

Yeah and not only that but more focus on characters allows the readers time to get to know them and care about them, I feel like there is no drama/action/tension if I don't really care what happens to the characters.

Like for example, I would stick around a story with a weak plot but that has interesting characters who I care about but I wouldn't be able to stick around a great story and plot but really under developed and 1-dimensional characters. I have dropped reading many manga/comics because I just didn't care what happened to the characters anymore and it's so disappointing.

ahkwardkat 2016-07-20 20:49:31 UTC #24

I think part of the reason is that we are taught that "non-action" is boring. You have to hook people in with the first few pages. Action is the best way to do this I guess? Most people are so short with their attention span that if it doesn't move quick, they get bored.

@joannekwan
IKR?! You'd think that once people reach 25/30 they all die and cease to exist. This is why almost all of my characters are 20+. I have only a few under 25.

@El_Psy_Congroo
I LOVE stuff like that. You read through and something gloss over and you reach a point you suddenly remember that and then you connect dots. That instant of putting stuff together realizing it's all important makes me so happy when I read. I also prefer multiple character stories. I fine stories that stay with one or two so incredibly boring. I know other people exist in this universe... so can we focus on that?

@Michelle
I don't agree that stuff that jumps right into action is flat in terms of characters. For me it makes me curious to know more about the situation. What's happening? Who are these characters? Why is this happening? Those sorts of things are what I see in a story that starts out that way. Maybe could you explain why you don't like jumping into the middle of things, then see them explained over the course of the story? I'm sure it's personal preference, but a lot of people seem to agree with you and Panda.

@shazzbaa
I actually REALLY dislike "dramadies". I don't like how life is made out to be happy and light hearted. It isn't. That's not what life really is and I'm one of those people I like seeing reality in comic and not an ideal version of life. All I see is "life isn't really like that" and it makes it hard for me to relate to. u_u

To add my thoughts to this thread

I am actually incredibly dissapointed NOBODY mentioned the WORLD of the comic. Everyone here focuses on characters, characters, characters, characters, characters, characters, CHARACTERS! Do you all know things OTHER than characters exist? I care about the WORLD the characters are in as much or MORE than the chararacters. Why?

It shows me they are actually caring about more than just characters. Comics that focus 90% on character development and 10-0% on world development are very hard for me to read because it makes them incredibly shallow to me. It's also why I'm incredibly picky about my comics. Maybe its because it takes more effort to develop a world than a character or a bunch of characters. The world they live in can affect them as much or more than other characters. They effect via the culture they grew up in, or the lifestyle they have, or possibly even the technology they have access to. Yet people seemingly never develop this part of the comic.

Also, why are people more focused on characters than plot? They are the same things! A plot isn't WHAT happens. A plot include why or how. When writing it should be the will of the character, not just what happens to them. The will and why and how of a character is more than just them and their personality. It's how they grew up or came to be how they are, which typically involves the outside WORLD and realm around them, not just other characters..

I guess maybe I look too deep into things? Maybe I expect too much from comics?

That's why I spent 5 years planning my own comic. I have a culture (two actually), mythology, music, cuisine, fashion, all developed. I have the island biology, climatology, geography, geology even since there is more than one biome on the island. I have a history built and timeline for the island development. I have almost 300GB and hundreds of pages of doodles and notes and drawings.

I guess now after reading these comments, that nobody is gonna give a shit for the world I've worked building because people seem to care only about the characters. I've developed them, yes, but not around themselves only. I developed them as how the world they live in affects them. It affects how they dress and talk from their culture. It affects them in terms of how others treat them; one character has allopecia and is mocked for it, and another has green eyes, seen as very unlucky in their culture. Others have had mythological creatures do things to them either physically or mentally to affect how they are. Some of my characters live in clean villages, some live in swamps and some are in forests or grasslands. It'll affect how all people are different based on that.

Worlds and environments shape characters as much as their characters and their relationships do. I read stories where the author actually bothered to invest in the world rather than focusing on the characters. Otherwise, it seems shallow and under developed to me. Granted, not all comics are story based. Some are gag based and that's a whole different story! XD But as far as story/plot comics, I want to see the world, not just your characters in it. you know?

Michelle 2016-07-20 22:04:00 UTC #25

I'm not saying that a story that starts out with action is a bad thing. What I was getting at is I don't enjoy comics where the plot is basically "action action action", without any stopping to get to know the people involved beyond their looks and their names. A comic can totally open with action! But I don't want it to be long before we get a sense of the characters (and those two things can absolutely coincide.)

Also I don't think people here are saying they only care about characters, granted it's a favourite answer when asked about story. I love intricate worlds, and a carefully-crafted world makes a huge impact on immersion. But if I had to pick only one solid element, I'd sooner read a comic with interesting characters and a nondescript world than a really cool world with dull characters. That's not to say I devalue world-building, not at all! It's a very close second on my list of priorities.

ahkwardkat 2016-07-20 22:18:11 UTC #26

OH OK. I agree with that then! I feel the same way about that. Slowing it down is definitely great and I wish more did that as well. It's little intimate moments that can teach you a LOT about a character.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't see character and world building as different things. They should be developed together as they affect each other. I don't think one should be more important to the other. I guess what got me frustrated was virtually nobody even mentioned it. So it appears to be something that most people don't think of initially.

Michelle 2016-07-20 22:22:52 UTC #27

@ahkwardkat Aah I gotcha. I agree that worldbuilding+character development are essential to a great story! Especially when it comes to the visuals. One of my major comic pet peeves is stories that take place in a white backgroundless purgatory.

This excludes gag strip comics of course, but when it's a story-oriented comic and the environment gets treated as a lazy afterthought, it really kills the immersion. There's so much story to be told through the environment/backgrounds, it feels like a huge missed opportunity when they're phoned-in or just completely nonexistant.

ahkwardkat 2016-07-20 22:29:16 UTC #28

Yes, I will unsubscribe so fast to a comic with virtually no valid environments.

Of course gag comics are a very different situation. XD Those are their own monster.

shazzbaa 2016-07-20 23:53:25 UTC #29

I feel like we are describing different things! The self-described "dramedy" comics I can think of actually don't pull punches when it comes to hardships -- they just also have light moments where you can laugh and have a good time and fall in love with these characters and their world as if they were real. I'm not looking for a version of life without hardship -- but I am looking for the things in life that are important to me. And good friendships and people worth investing in and moments of happiness are important parts of my life. A story that tries to present a world devoid of those things isn't one I want to spend time in.

The ability to laugh and find light in the darkness can be really important, too.

I don't think that's true.... it's more that, well, there is no world without the characters -- you can't develop a world with no people in it. If a creator is so caught up in their worldbuilding that they expect people to invest in it just because they developed so many details, then yeah, nobody will care -- but if your characters powerfully and believably reflect the world, that world will add a LOT to your story, as readers are able to discover a new world and a new worldview through the people who live there. That kind of story is awesome!

But often, when you do this, when you make a world that's so believably reflected in its inhabitants, your readers will tell you that they love how diverse and interesting your characters are. Worldbuilding is like drawing good perspective -- it's important, and sometimes it stands out....... but if nobody consciously notices it, you're doing a good job.

ahkwardkat 2016-07-21 00:02:40 UTC #30

I don't think any relatable story would be devoid of either good or bad. Any logical story would have a mix of both good light moments and heavy dark ones and everything in between. I mean even Shutter Island has light moments! XD But yeah, I think I didn't really understand what you meant there that first time.

This makes sense, but I'm not saying to develop a world with no characters. The world and characters need to be developed TOGETHER and as you said, reflect each other. Too many stories don't do that. I guess I think that if people DON'T notice the world around it I've failed. I don't WANT people to just gloss over it. I want people to see it and be entralled and lost in it in a good way. I want people to say:

Hey did you see that! I wonder what that was.
Wow that village looks really cool and the buildings are neat!
The festival was really neat to see all the masks and costumes, different instruments I've never seen before. Are those real?

That sort of thing, I WANT people to notice. I guess if they don't, it flows seemlessly, so that's great in a way. But at the same time, it seems like it isn't that important if people don't notice it? People aren't paying attention is what it'll feel like. I have a mystery comic. I put a LOT of little tips, clues, hints, and small things throughout the world, so I WANT people to pay attention. Granted I don't expect readers to do all the work, I try to lead them where I want them and make some things obvious. However I don't want to spoonfeed people information and so I put those hints and ideas they need to look at throughout the world so they can become the story and interact with it in a way. you know?

El_Psy_Congroo 2016-07-21 00:10:33 UTC #31

I think the reason people find characterization to be the most important is because it's the part of the story that speaks to the deepest part of us. You can imagine a story with little to no world building but can you imagine a story without characters?

And I think even in your description of world building, one of the biggest points is that the world should effect the character. It should effect their identity, and often exerts some influence on the plot. But I think, for example, when characters do not reflect the world they live in, from a creator's or a critic's standpoint, that should be considered bad characterization - not necessarily bad world building. And if they do reflect the world they live in, I would still call that good characterization rather than good world building

World building by itself is definitely important, and everyone loves it when its done well. But its one of those things like visuals and design, that are more like the wrapper - while the candy itself would be the deeper elements like the plot and characters. If the wrapper looks like shit but the candy looks alright, a decent amount of people will still eat it. If the wrapper is gorgeous but the candy sucks you'll never buy it again. If the wrapper is nice and the candy tastes great then everyone gets cavities! Art of this kind is then rightfully called a masterpiece.

That said, I read some of your comic and you've got some serious world building and artistic chops. Seriously, I was like:

But now I'm waiting in anticipation to see how interesting your story and characters will be! Gimme sum o' dat candy =F

ahkwardkat 2016-07-21 00:22:27 UTC #32

Actually, No, I can't. Look at forensics, they tell a whole story with just the things they see. They don't always use characters, they use SUBJECTS. Unless you are of the frame of mine a subject becomes the character. You don't always need a character, but you always need a subject.

If you wanna go along that route think of this: If you saw an ugly wrapper, or a plain one with just "chocolate" on it. Would you buy it? No. That's why there is an entire job called "marketing" to focus on how to make that wrapper make people WANT to buy it and WANT to eat that candy. Without an good looking wrapper to entice people, you'll never know who good, or crappy that candy is.

Well thank you. I hope that it can be something people want to get into over time.

El_Psy_Congroo 2016-07-21 00:53:22 UTC #33

I'm not quite sure how you are defining "subject" as something different here (perhaps give an example?), but in the forensics analogy I would imagine the story they are telling is that of the culprit. Even if little is known about them, the character of the culprit does exist in this story.

Marketing is definitely important when trying to get people to look at your work. When people quickly browse through a webpage or a comic bookstore, art is almost always what draws the eye first, and by extension, the visual aspect of the world building as well. But that's separate from what makes a good story and I think to answer a question like "What do you want to read?" most people (or at the very least, I) would probably say "a good story." Art and world building is the icing on the cake (I like food metaphors too damn much) and its important. But its not on the highest rung in terms of what is necessary for a good story. Like I said, there are a few people who will eat something even if its not in the most appealing of wrappers. Occasionally, these stories even end up widely successful anyway.

An example is One Punch Man. The original webcomic had some pretty mediocre art but the characters were hilarious and it went viral. Eventually a digital manga was published by a pretty established artist, and this year an anime was made as well. Now granted, the world building was pretty damn good in the original, and the characters way of navigating the world they lived in greatly helped with the appeal. The contrast between the hero-celebrity worship of most of society compared to the matter-of-fact and humble nature of the protagonist really drives the story. But again, the world building helped because of its effect on the characters personalities - not their clothes or houses. And the outward "marketed" appearance of the original wasn't much to look at:

Perhaps it sounds a bit like I'm disparaging world building as something unnecessary. It's definitely not - all aspects of a comic are necessary. I was trying to explain why I think characterization is the first thing that comes to mind for many people.

No problem, your work is fracking inspirational =]
Once I finish everything thats published I'll definitely subscribe.

goner 2016-07-21 15:17:28 UTC #34

Anything with good art, good plot and good character design! I would really love a sci-fi comic around here though!

NickRowler 2016-07-21 21:41:43 UTC #35

Someone might have already described this but a dramadie is actually a fusion of both drama and comedy. There is a belief that drama and comedy are opposites, with dramas being dark and depressing and comedies being the pippy happy. However dramadies tries to mix the two together. So more or less, something that makes you laugh and cry. Or least, that is how I see it, because my stuff sort of falls into that category.