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LordVincent
Sep '17

Chill out, noone here has the solution that will work for every artist.

Some people want to be mentors and some people want a mentor. They are obviously the people that need it and work well under such circumstances. Let them find each other and be happy.

Some people improve and work best on their own. Hell, I'm one of them. Let them work on their own and be happy.

Working with a mentor or editor doesn't mean someone gives up their artistic integrity unless they don't want to do it or don't feel it's right for them, and working without one doesn't mean you will never improve or that your stuff will turn out crap.

There are many different tastes and work methods, and one isn't more right than the other. This thread was aimed to approach something that could be really positive for some people. It wasn't implying anyone has to do anything they're not comfortable with.

Leave space for people to discuss the "how", "who" and "when" of this program.

joe_galindez
Sep '17
LordVincent

Honest question, but what do you mean by artistic integrity? Are you talking about the techniques, the message, or both?

If you're working with an editor because you're both employed by the same company, then there's going to be a house style and a house worldview. You're not free to do whatever you want, but then again, you knew that when you signed up for the paycheck.

If the editor works for you, because you hired them, then you have the final word on everything. The editor can only make suggestions. And really, they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't align themselves with your artistic vision.

I feel that an artist never really stops improving. There's always another technique to master, always another story to tell. You'll never stop learning until the day you die. The problem is that artists do die. Each of us has only so much time on this earth. So why not reach for every advantage? Why not get put yourself ahead of the competition by getting a mentor?

When I think of the purely-self-taught, I think of Srinivasa Ramanujan.

. . . an Indian mathematician who lived during the British Rule in India. Though he had almost no formal training in pure mathematics, he made substantial contributions to mathematical analysis, number theory, infinite series, and continued fractions, including solutions to mathematical problems considered to be unsolvable. Ramanujan initially developed his own mathematical research in isolation; it was quickly recognized by Indian mathematicians.

It's the "no formal training" and "developed . . . in isolation" that gets to me. What might he have achieved if he hadn't spent so much time reinventing the wheel? What mathematical discoveries and scientific advancements did the world miss out on?

A mentor can be a great help when it comes to technique. At the least, they can give one a thorough grounding in the basics (which many self-taught artists lack and which marks them). This doesn't mean that mentors lock their students in a certain way of doing things. Picasso was classically-trained and no one can say that he wasn't wildly experimental. E.C. Segar drew Popeye in order to annoy his anatomy professor. So you can't say that students aren't free to disagree with their teachers.

If anything, formal training helps you be more creative. "Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist." as Picasso is supposed to have said.

A mentor can also be a great help when it comes to the message -- to the wisdom embodied in the work. Here's someone who's had the kind of career you want to have. He's had the kind of life you want to have. He's dealt with many of the same problems and had many of the same conversations. As far as one person can help another person find wisdom, a mentor can help you. In fact, this is probably their real purpose. Not only do they pass down the skills, they also pass down the philosophy of the art.

I'm not saying you can't improve on your own -- you certainly can. And I'm not saying you should feel obligated to take on a mentor or an editor. That's a personal choice. It is entirely yours to make.

But no man stands alone.

LordVincent
Sep '17

...coughs

Leave space for people to discuss the "how", "who" and "when" of this program? Please? o_o

Last time we were on topic, the discussion was focused on whether mentors etc should be filtered.
I will have to agree with previous additions that some filter is probably good. Partially so that participants involved match up as well as possible, and partially so that each party gets the most out of it. Unserious participants might leave a sour aftertaste and affect the possibility of the program reoccurring in the future?

punkarsenic
Sep '17
joe_galindez

joe, maybe you should make a thread discussing being self taught vs being tutored? you have a lot to say on the matter, and so do some other people here. itd be cool to see that discussion go on uninhibited (im not saying that to shoo you away btw, but bc i would totally read that thread!)

Luminosophy
Sep '17

I really like the idea but it has to be something individuals have control over selecting the mentees. I did a program like this on Deviantart to teach illustration through a group that randomly paired people together. Every mentee I got wasn't interested in learning as much as trying to figure out what magic brush I used to make everything happen. When they found out there was no such trick, they bailed. :T

joe_galindez
Sep '17
LordVincent

Sure.

Post must be at least 20 characters.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Jennay.

kip
Sep '17
Luminosophy

Oh, that sucks to hear. I’m worried over that possibility too, hence I think the trainees should be filtered as well. Amount of time drawing, and posting comics specifically, may be important, too? Age, maybe. I feel like the whole “what’s the trick, though?” mentality may be something mainly young artists have.
A trail period like I mentioned back at the beggining of the thread may help there too.
It’s possible a short interview could even help at the very beginning of the program, to ensure expectations are clear on both sides.

IdiotWithPencil
Sep '17
Luminosophy

I remember that all the great youtube artist said like a religious chant the names of their art utensils in every video cause they get ask that like once every 2 seconds, and it was followed by "you don't need to buy this to draw better" which was quickly ignored by all beginner artist who went out and bought a black prisma colour cause they used a black prisma colour =V

amatures are weird like that, I mean having a ruler won't make me a math wizard so why would a pencil of a certain brand -_-

also I just thought of something Portfolios, why not filter based on a portfolio one for art and one with a short story of x pages about anything, that way you could see who needs help in what and who are already masters/not needing help

Luminosophy
Sep '17
kip

I think the age thing may be a little unfair. There's definitely young kids who take stuff super seriously and can handle critique. Actually I found a pretty easy way to identify them, for artists at least! They always have a very diverse portfolio. They'll be tackling really hard stuff like perspective, composition and backgrounds, not just always drawing head shots at the same front on angle. History of drawing/ writing something would be a good indicator though. If you have genuine passion you don't need someone to tell you what to do to get started.

I think you could ask both the mentor and mentee to write a short essay on what their goals are for the program (and for their work in general), and people can self select from there.

Luminosophy
Sep '17
IdiotWithPencil

Lol and on the other hand, my friends and I will always say, truthfully, "We don't use special brushes, we only use the default round brush setting" and people get upset and accuse you of lying. Because apparently textures always have to Photoshop filters or something.

I'd think portfolios would be standard. I mean there's varying degrees of amateur and master, even. Someone could be really solid in anatomy but not know how to draw dynamic figures that look and feel alive, for example. I know there's equivalent issues for writers.

UbePie
Sep '17

See my idea of the mentor ship is different then others, apparently. I don't want someone to help with my arts so much as I want someone to help me understand the business. I draw, I take art classes, nude models, art school, all that. If i want to improve in my basic art technique that's where I turn to. Would i turn down digital art tips? No, but I have already settled on my style, or at least the style I use in my comics, i don't need help developing that. I would just like a mentor that looks over stuff and says, "this could be improved." Or "You might benefit from advertising on X forum." Or explain the best approach for keeping consistent updates. I had no idea what a buffer was before I had already started posting. That sort of thing.

Kaykeactual fraggle
Sep '17
UbePie

My idea is similar to yours. I feel like there's so much that goes into it that isn't exactly art related. Though I think the mentors should give art critique too... so I guess my idea of a mentor is someone who gives art advice but also shows you how they handle the business and organizational parts of comic making since those parts are really important for someone trying to make comics professionally... and not something that's as easy to come by as art tutorials and critiques.

punkarsenic
Sep '17

this sounds like a good idea. there definitely would need to be some kinda base standard for mentees, i think; a mentor shouldnt be expected to work with someone they dont see promise in.

IdiotWithPencil
Sep '17
UbePie

have you tried looking for bushiness courses or marketing courses? their very useful in getting and understanding of how to do all what you just said. also try googling webcomic forums =P

UbePie
Sep '17

Already part of web comic groups and forums. Following people on twitter all that. I have come to the point where i have googled all i can google. You are talking to a Art history major here, when I research I research hard. Still getting first hand advice from a mentor would be beneficial i think. My school does have a business department so i might look into that.

IdiotWithPencil
Sep '17

oooh you have a business department? then you should go and ask I'm sure some business teacher would love to give you some tips on how to market more your comic and give you a rundown of how you could promote it more