What makes a good fight scene?

[xstarx07]

Heya! :3

I'm relatively new to making a comic myself (properly) and only started with chapter 2 of what I'm doing recently, so I wanted to get some advice beforehand. In said chapter 2 is a fight scene, a very minor but important one compared to what more there is to come.
From what I watch or read in most series, especially during the bigger fights, there are usually some things going on in the background, like characters discussing startegy or some other plot elements moving forward, that take the reader away from the action for a moment.

However, how much do y'all think would be too much or too little going in a scene to make the reader in anyway confused or bored?

[DualDragons]

From my experience as both a reader and someone who draws them for a hobby, experimenting and using different angles really makes a action scene (or breaks it if you keep repeating angles).

Using different angles (in my opinion) keeps the attention of the reader more than reusing angles, which leaves them invested in the scene more.

[darthmongoose]

Oooooh fight scenes! I love drawing fight scenes! Here are my tips:

• Realism is overrated. Real fights tend to be short, brutal and confusing. Even a "realistic" or "gritty" comic like Watchmen tends to have fights staged more like a fight in a movie than real life. Take influence and inspiration from real martial arts if you like, but structure the overall flow more like a dance.
• Study some martial arts or fight choreography. It's a good way to get a sense for how an experienced fighter should move or hold themselves to look convincing.
• Clear cause and effect. There should be a very strong and easy to follow storyboard for a fight that shows the reader who did what to whom and what effect this had. ie. This guy hit that guy with a bat around the face. The result was that guy got smacked backwards into that pile of boxes. Now in the next panel, we see the guy with the bat looming over him, while he lies among the boxes, gloating.
• Exaggerate poses to give the strongest and most dynamic sense of momentum you can. A punch should be at it's most hyper-extended phase with the whole body leaning in unless the aim was to make it look like it was a punch with minimal effort, and a sword swing needs a nice big dramatic arc and the feet planted nice and wide.
• Try to have poses and fighting styles reflect personality or emotional state. Cool and careful characters tend to be elegant, controlled and carefully guard their vitals, while wild, angry characters often leave themselves open or fight in scrappy ways.
• Keep the focus on the fight. Anything going on elsewhere should be ABOUT the fight, like commentating on it, bringing stuff into the fight for payoff later etc.

[DiegoPalacios]

There are many styles of fight scenes, so it depends on what approach fits better for your story.

As a general rule, is better to be concise in the dialogue and keep it short and sweet. There may be some exceptions, because how much banter the characters will have will depend of their personality.

Some fighters may provoque an opponent to trick them into making a mistake, others may try to defuse the combat situation by talking, but if the characters talk to each other during a fight is better to make them do stuff while they do.

Example: pannel 1: warrior parries their opponent's sword while saying "you call yourself a swordman?

pannel 2: warrior attempts a trust with his rapier"my grandma is a better swordfighter than you".

When fighting with help, some people talk to each other, but because of the quick pacing they keep it in few words.

Example: pannel1:wizard: cover me, i need more time to cast a fireball
pannel2: knight: (blocking a gobling with his shield while stabbing another with his spear) on it!

Another aspect is the mental monologues. They are not neccesary for simple stuff like a person noticing a big rock and throwing it at the opponent, but if you want to explain a more complex plan, it may be the way to work.

Another alternative, is wordless fights. Those tend to be more fast paced because of the lack of interruption and are great for intense battles without much tactical depth.

Hope this helps!

[IndigoShirtProd]

@darthmongoose @DiegoPalacios
I was gonna say something, but now I just feel inconsequential . Great advice you two!

But I'll touch on something neither of you mentioned which is the narrative aspect of an action scene: stakes! What are the stakes? Why are the two sides fighting? What is there to lose and what is there to gain? Make this clear before going into a fight scene. You can have the most well paced, beautifully choreographed fight scene comic world has ever scene, but if the readers don't know what it's for, then it's practically all for not. It'll feel like a pretty waste of time. So do take the time to research and practice choreographing a good fight scene, but do be sure make it clear why it's happening.

[cyborgmermaid]

Study the Line of Action and make movements as dynamic as possible.

[BarBarKetrab]

I'm still working on improving my action scenes, but my advice would be to have a good understanding of motion and gesture. The art style doesn't have to be realistic for this at all, make it as exaggerated as you wish, but it will look three times more dynamic if the gesture is there, compared to if the characters are always in stiff poses like statues.

I also think that using different camera angles also improves the action a lot because it makes you feel more like you are participating in the action itself rather than simply observing from afar.

Another thing to consider is to pay attention to impact effects and the like. If a character is punched in the face for example, then you are going to expect their skin to slightly displace around the attacker's fist and their head/neck to be pushed backwards. It looks quite jarring if the person remains in a pose similar to what they were in before after being struck (unless they were supposed to tank it). Impact sparks and focus lines can help a lot in this department as well, but overusing them can lead to a scene looking "too flashy" or "messy."

Exaggerated poses and motion effects (blurs, smears, lines etc) will enhance the action a lot, especially if you are using more stylized artwork. You can turn an entire character's arm into a blurry mass just to inject that extra dose of speed into your panels. The panels themselves should also flow into each other nicely, and you should keep a reasonably consistent tempo throughout without slowing things down too much.

Finally, if there is outside dialogue going on, make it short, snappy and dramatic if necessary to add to the tension. If the brawlers themselves are talking, synchronize the panels and text. For example, if a character roundhouse kicks a monster and they say something, I would expect it to be something simple like "Got ya!!" instead of "Ha! Got you! None can avoid my supreme roundhouse!!" (cringe). A sentence like that would be too long to fit into such a quick panel. This is a problem that I see in many American superhero comics. The characters just talk too much!

[xstarx07]

Try to have poses and fighting styles reflect personality or emotional state. Cool and careful characters tend to be elegant, controlled and carefully guard their vitals, while wild, angry characters often leave themselves open or fight in scrappy ways.

Thanks for listing that one up, because that actually didn't cross my mind before you mentioned it, even though it makes a lot of sense!

When fighting with help, some people talk to each other, but because of the quick pacing they keep it in few words.

That's one I'm a little anxious about, because I tend to put in either too much or nothing at all. Maybe it's because of perfectionism, but thank you really much for that advice!

You can turn an entire character's arm into a blurry mass just to inject that extra dose of speed into your panels.

This is one I kinda need to practice doing, because, like I mentioned, I got a little too much perfectionism going on and dislike exaggerating body parts to that extend, even though - especially when animating something - it's totally necessary. But it's a little different with animation, since it would only be a frame or two, which aren't as noticeable as a still picture or a comic panel

[R.n.P]

for me choreography, angles, intense facial expressions and impact.

[jcmraz]

What makes a fight scene interesting is personal stakes. Not just world wide stakes. A specific reason that a fight between two characters means something emotional to them specifically. Mob Psycho and My Hero Academia are fantastic examples of this. Every time the tension ratchets up with Mob it's because there is a specific challenge or conflict of ideology between the characters. The fight isn't just pretty to look at. It matters to the people involved for more reasons than just survival. As pretty as you can make a fight it ends up being flat and unmemorable if the characters aren't, themselves involved as well.

[therosesword]

I don't do comics, just novels.

In my fantasy novel Bright Morn series its sword fights and I'm a (very bad) swordswoman so I tend to choreograph the scene before I write it. Chapters 15 and 16 of Bright Morn of Issareth I have him up against ten men (he has a broken arm). There's also a sparring scene where, rather than describing the action I went for rhythm during a sparring match in Chapter 29:

"She knew Old God's reputation but had never seen him in action. She also knew Morn, still injured, was possibly an equal. Never did she think she would see two swordsmen of such caliber fight.

_Advance, spin, turn, thrust, swing, stab, advance, advance, advance. Scramble backward, stride forward, slide back, defense, defense, spring forward, jump, kick, spin, in the air, swing, smash down. One handed, two handed, roll on the ground, roll the other way, slam against a wall, get your footing, advance, advance.

Two hands, one hand, and Old God trapped Morn's blade. The younger man was on one knee, his sword buried in the ground to keep himself upright. Each breath he sucked in tore at his lungs. He retched, once, twice, and then unloaded his breakfast.'

Again, though, I physically choreographed it.

In my Dead Souls Doing the Samba I did not Choreograph in full as it was not a sword fight, but I did dredge up old old old karate classes to try and visualize it. It's between the protagonist and a Horseman of the Apocalypse at the end of chapter 22 thru 23 and 24.

By the time you get to a fight the ground work should have been laid for why they're fighting (although sometimes it's a sneak attack and then explained afterwards.) but if the reader thinks about it, even though the fight/attack is a surprise, they should be able to find the lead in to it.

Again, for me, rhythm is big. I guess I learned that reading all the Sharpe's Rifles books by Bernard Cornwall. no one writes battel scenes better than he does in my opinion.

If you're inclined to check out the chapters I've mentioned here:

Bright Morn of Issareth, Vol. I - The Arrival | Tapas

Dead Souls Doing the Samba | Tapas

[FafasMcMelt]

character movement, camera movement, and most importantly, being able to tell whats going on. that's it visually, but for a fight to be great it also needs to play a part in the story. real stakes, real danger.
it's also a good idea not to make it straight forward, throw some tactics in there, and make sure the audience knows what a character is doing and is planning to do to some extent, at least the pov

[DokiDokiTsuna]

I think the most important thing to do is go with a sort of 'rule of cool' when it comes to your choreography.
Once you've decided on the position of your character in the panel and the angle from which you're gonna draw them, there are still several ways to draw a punch, for instance-- pick the one that looks the best and go with it.
Maybe most people don't need to be told this, but as someone who thinks in terms of animation when choreographing, sometimes I find myself drawing ugly 'in-between frames' during a fight scene just because that's the point at which I paused the video in my head...without realizing that the 'key frame' that comes just a second later gives a much more appealing portrayal of motion. ^^;

Some other things:
-Pacing is so important, especially when it comes to dramatic fights, or any fight where there's talking. Don't be afraid to spend several panels on one character struggling to their feet or reloading their gun, to build up to the next big attack.
On the flipside, don't pad out fast-paced fights/chase sequences with still shots; if you want to keep that sense of urgency, every panel should show the characters continuing to move and act.

-Panel sizing can also help with pacing...I learned this very recently (from a Star Wars comic~). Not every panel has to be big enough to show detail, and lots of smaller panels in succession can give off a 'swashbuckling' effect that helps the bigger, fancier moves stand out.
For example:
[Characters face off in the warehouse]
[ They lunge towards each other ]
[After] [a] [flurry] [of] [kicks] [and] [jabs]
[Character A delivers a sharp uppercut]

...That's a simple fight layout I might use for a page. ^^

[saffasas]

I think that the same as any scene a fight scene needs to have clear pivot points/changes in power dynamic, and those changes need to be reflective of the subtext of the scene/story/relationship between the characters. Because it’s an action scene, there need to be a greater number of pivots and they need to happen faster than in a normal scene, but it’s the same basic principle.

To put it in clearer terms (hopefully), characters get the ‘upper hand’ in a scene by revealing information that puts the other characters on the back foot. The example that comes to mind is the bit at the end of the Emperors New Groove where Yzma is like ‘it’s like I’m talking to a monkey, a really really big stupid monkey named Kronk!’ And all through that Kronk is unable to fight back because he’s so hurt by what she’s saying, revealing that she doesn’t really care about him or respect him despite everything he does for her and all they’ve been through together. So that’s the equivalent of a barrage of hits from her, and then she pulls back and does her big finishing move ‘and I never liked your spinach puffs!’ She thinks that that will sink him, but what she doesn’t know is that he won’t fight back to defend himself, but he will fight back to defend the things he loves, so she unwittingly gives him the motivation he needs to turn the tables on her.

The only reason to add speech (either from the characters in the fight or from external viewers) is if the subtext that’s empowering the characters/motivating their attacks is not clear, really. So if you need a character to say ‘oh no, she’s done for now!’ And then someone to reply ‘that’s what she wants the opponent to think. She’s got her final ace up her sleeve.’ U can have that happen. But maybe also be aware that taking the focus out of the fight and into some speech will slow the pace (which you might want to do, because although the pace should be quick over all for a fight, the reader still needs breathing room to understand everything that’s happening), so I guess try to keep that in mind while you’re writing it.

TLDR -
Fights should move the plot/character relationships forward like any other scene should. Characters should explain what’s happening (in terms of power dynamic shifts) in words IF the subtext is not clear/established enough for those shifts to make sense without dialogue. Take the focus away from the fight momentarily if you want to give the reader some time to breathe and catch up with what’s going on.

[Aleksei]

This topic is gold. I should print it. I am taking note of everything everyone says, so thank you for sharing!

[djourner]

Ok so I am biased to talk about this so here are some things I tend to note.

1 - I am very big into that anime stuff.

So generally speaking when i'm looking at makes a fight scene good, I tend to look at weight and pressure, I can accept some unrealistic things so long as the fight has that kinetic feel to it... that is generally traslated to, enviromental damage, momentum transfer and all that good stuff.

2 - I realize sometimes these go overboard and ruin a good fight.

I genuinely like more when a fight is well coreographed as opposed to just over the top and superpowerful... Everytime an anime character does a move that causes them to like turn their backs to the enemies I just roll my eyes and go... sigh
I do however realize I'm in the minority in this, most people don't pay attention to that stuf and just want a cool scene to be cool.
Realism is overrated sometimes, but remember an artist job is not just to make cool shit but to make people FEEL,and realism is TOOL in your arsenal, not an ideal goal.

3 - There is a way to strike a balance, and when you do, it looks gorgeous.

It can be tricky as it puts an extra strain on the creator. But trying to actively look at the way momentum transfers in the body, and the characters muscle behaves is a good way to improve and create a very interesting fight scene that feels dynamic, grounded and weighty.
A lot of creators I know are scared that by asking too many questions they will 'break the illusion' or 'spoil the fun' by overanalysing but that is not true at all.
Just because you asked yourself a question doesn't mean you have to follow it through, asking those questions open up new artistic interpretations you might have not thought about before and can help you improve a scene from good to amazing. And even if it doesn't you are just covering the angles, and when you chose to ignore physics at some point you are making a conscious decision to not comprimise your artistic vision for realism... AND THAT IS PERFECTLY OK!

So my tip for a good fight scene is, focus on what your viewer or reader will FEEL when they experience it, not just on how it looks or reads.
The most memorable fights are no nescessarily the most technically impressive, but the ones that you were directed to care about by the creator of the story.