What makes you avoid paid collabs?

[ShidoDraws]

When it comes to paid collaborations, what makes you avoid it? I'd like to hear your personal opinion on this as writers and/or illustrators.

This is a question I wanted to ask since a lot of people seemed to already know reasons why people don't participate in unpaid collaborations.

[dbeirigo]

I personally don't think I'm good enough of an artist to do a good job, or to even be hired.

[BoomerZ]

Never been asked to do one.

[Kelheor]

Deadlines, the assignment being too strict or vague, tastes mismatch

[Lensing]

Different creative visions/goals.
Communication problems.

I grew up doing collabs with my brother and we are still doing collabs on different
things, we write songs together, I draw illustrations for his books etc.
I´m very collab experienced because I play in bands over 35 years and that´s usually
an unpaid creative collaboration. I love comic jams.

I never successfully did a longer comic collaboration (for a comic book for example)
and I think it´s very difficult to find people to work with for a bigger project because it´s
so time intense and everyone has their own creative vision.
That´s a big difference compared to playing in a band, I have one 5 piece 1950s rhythm´n´blues
band and we all have exactly the same creative vision, I write the songs, they love the songs,
we rehearse and then we record. I can´t imagine finding 5 people who have exactly the same
vision for a comic we work on together

[cherrystark]

Simply put - people lie.

It's really easy for both parties to get in their head about how much they are contributing to the project. There is almost always a lack of communication. I noticed with projects that I've worked on that even when I'm being as open and communicative as I can, they never really hold up their end of the deal, leaving me burned.

*I've also learned that most people don't have an idea about how business collabs work. Unless person A has a fire Patreon and is already making money, it's going to take MONTHS before B will get paid. Even if they do make a few sales the first month, it's likely only going to be a couple bucks. So each party is only making pennies an hour. Then comes marketing costs, and what if A wants to start selling merch? Unless all parties are committed to the concept, one party is going to end up cheated.

[RedLenai]

• Bad organization
• Bad communication
• No structure nor script ready
• Authors that either talk as if I already knew about their entire story or want me to do more than drawing (coming up with plots, characters, arcs or anything that is not drawing-related)
• Very unrealistic deadlines

I don't usually reject collaborations for as long the pay is good, there is a script ready to adapt or at least the author knows what its doing.
But I would likely reject working for someone regardless of payment if I'm there waiting for them to have something done, be it a script or storyboard, like... I associate that the moment you are looking for an artist, another individual to provide a service is because you already have the material that need to be processed.

I'm used to work with rules and a structure, even when commissions is something that happens. It's either you give me total freedom to mold the work or you give me something to follow strictly, something in between is time consuming and that's how you end up with lots of revisions, corrections, "oh but I would like it better if you did it like this" when I already done the job.

I rather deal with someone strict, that has their vision already solved, that has a stick figure draft but simply tells me "This but in your style" than dealing with someone that is constantly unsure about how to diagram stuff, "what about this angle?", "so what's your opinion? oh... well... I'm not sure now" and just... beating around the bush or having to reject other works because I'm not sure when this person is going to make up their mind and I have to start working and I don't want to juggle my schedule or working hours

Lately, I've only been rejecting gigs but because I don't have the time. I work for two webcomics that are both active on the making (one still hasn't been published), for 3 novel authors's Patreons making exclusive content and then Commissions.....

And then personal projects or interests that have the minimum of quality or dedication but that are done regardless.

[NickRowler]

I have never taken paid collab mostly because I am concern I might not be able to meet the demands of the other person.

From other people, a large concern people have with paid collabs are...

• Not knowing an artist's worth. Usually demanding a lot out of an artist while giving them low pay. Trying to underpaid or avoid payments to artist. Not showing empathy if an artist encounters something that may require them to take some time off.

• Being very arrogant and secretive about your work. It is normal to be proud of your ideas, but if you are telling everyone you have a "million dollar idea" with no portfolio or resume of successful past works, this looks like you are just full of hot air. It is made worse if you refuse to even give the bare minimum about your story. No one is going to steal your work based off a short summary or even stating the genre. Giving these small details will help with vetting people so you can better find someone who fits your genre.

[Llyrel]

Haven't worked on comics commissions, but I did illustrations and book covers in the past, so here are my personal red flags:

• Lots of work, little pay: some people apparently do not realize that asking for a single character portrait on a flat background is VERY different from, say, requesting 50 characters standing in front of a gothic cathedral together with three dragons and perhaps even a couple of flying cars if you're going to ask me to paint all that stuff and maybe even MORE and expect to pay peanuts... you can forget about it :'D
• Terrible deadlines: yes, it's a drawing, no, it does NOT take "just five minutes" to make. Especially NOT when you're requesting the aforementioned 50+ characters. If the person can't understand that art takes time to make, then it's a no for me.
• Arrogance: already mentioned above, but yep, this is also a big one for me. If the person can't accept any suggestions, understand that their "awesome ideas" can't always work "exactly as they envisioned", isn't willing to find ANY compromise and will keep acting as if their project is too amazing for such a lowly mortal to understand... I'm out.

[Scarlet_Cryptid]

I agree with all of the above (collab hopefuls usually not being organized, or prepared, or able to pay an artist what they're worth, etc), and I'll add another one:

Unless they're paying good money, and I desperately need money, I have very little incentive to work on someone else's story. I have a story that I want to produce, and it takes me a LOT of time, effort, and money to accomplish. I CANNOT work on both projects at the same time. Even if I did decide to work with an author on a collab drawing their story for them, I will never be as emotionally invested/interested in their story as I am in my own. Sounds harsh, but that's just reality.

And if they're not paying enough to make it worth both the time/money/effort sink AND the lost satisfaction of working on my own story? Yeah, just... no. I went indie rather than trying to work for an established studio because, above all else, I want to work on MY story, not someone else's.

[Legendofgenii]

When they offer to pay you with a percentage of the
add revenue

[Llyrel]

Gotta love those guys! Not to mention the ones paying in exposure :'D (bonus point when they get angry at your refusal and keep insisting that they're actually "really famous" with "a lot of followers" and tbh YOU should be the one paying them for the honor of working with them )

[river121693]

The story, concept, or art style doesn’t appeal to me.

The division of labor doesn’t match the pay. I.e if you say you want an artist, only expect me to draw. If want me to be an artist and help write, pay me for both.

Unrealistic deadline or expectations.

General difficulties with trusting total strangers on a long term project. If you have good working history or credential I’d be more likely to bite.

Lack of experience and organization

[Katzalcoatl]

1.- Lack of time. I have my own personal projects.

2.- Lack of pay. Whoever is looking for someone else should value their time and as a minimum pay the minimum wage. If their skills are above that you should pay accordingly. Artists skillls are usually more valuable but if an artist hires a writer and not the other way around the artist should pay accordingly.

3.- Unrealistic standards. Your standards should be set to the amount of pay you are giving. You can't ask for the impossible just because you pay a little. Collabs are mostly done out of good will or mutual interest.

4.- No organization. Pretty much what everyone else said about it.

[cherrystark]

I did say it with my other comment (and other threads) but I will say it again. This is a business. If your idea really is a million dollar idea, then it'll gain traction and eventually you'll get other collaborators to work on the project with you. But until then, you're on your own. Tapas doesn't pay enough on its own to be profitable.

The successful writer duos I know of create a contract at the start of their partnership about what they will and will not do. They have everything down on paper and split the bills 50/50. They can write whatever they want under their own brand, but if they aren't writing for the shared brand - there is no money. These pairs are profitable because they might work hundreds of projects together - not just one person's grand idea.

I've definitely had to think more like a business person and have a better appreciation for contracts now.

[XiuLyn_12]

I've never been asked one before, but if I ever did, I would hesitate for these reasons (as an artist):

1. I'm afraid I can't deliver what they expect or draw fast enough to their liking.

2. Even if I like the initial story, I'm afraid to lose interest if the story doesn't go where I want it to. (Ya know?)

3. I'm scared of scams, honestly...

[JoshRaed]

A lack of money or strong art ability is it for me.

[TheLemmaLlama]

A lack of money

Dammit, you ruined my joke :'D

(but yeah, throwing myself on the pile of 'wanting to work on my own projects', so I'd be on the paying side of any paid collabs I enter into :P)

[ArtisanAsteroid]

I avoid collaboration in general. When something was someone else's idea I don't want to put so much work into into for so long. Also, a lot of the time it's essentially thinly vailed spec work. "If I get featured, you get X amount of money." But the truth is it just isn't likely and you can't rely on that. I'd rather spend my time unpaid on the stories I genuinely enjoy.

[thepenmonster]

When it comes to paid collaborations, what makes you avoid it?

First: There's a 99% chance that I think the idea/ story isn't good and it isn't something I want to put my name on. This is also why I don't offer to do commissions.

Second: I don't actually know if this complete stranger is trustworthy with delivering a paycheque.

Thirdly: The pay probably isn't worth the time. If I can make more with my day job, well... I got rent to pay so I need to focus on the better paying gig. And if they can pay at a professional rate then they can hire someone far better than me.

Lastly: Questions of ownership and how to use the material. I have drawn and written for other people in the past and most of them worked out because I knew they were good eggs and we had a full agreement on the material. However one guy I thought was a good egg couldn't let go of certain goals he had and used the art in a way I didn't sign off on. That was the end of both the collab and our web-friendship.