When Reality becomes a Video Game: Searching for References and Help for a Genre I've Never Done Before

[PennieWagner]

Alright. So!

After playing through Dragon Quest XI for more than 90 hours (still playing it, by the way, actually). I've had an idea come to me that I'm surprised hasn't before. Besides reading manga and watching anime frequently, I also play video games on a regular basis. Something like averaging 45 hours every week or so, unless I use most or a portion of that time for my writing because I'm feeling particularly inspired.

While I do dabble in games like The Sims, Harvest Moon, Yakuza, and visual novels, the vast majority of the games I play fall under the tag of JRPGs (Japanese Role-Playing Games). One of the most common devices in these types of games is the use of "Silent Protagonists". Above-mentioned Dragon Quest XI uses this, in that the main character never has any spoken lines, just the occasional option to respond with a simple few responses prompt which doesn't actually change more than maybe a line or two of dialogue and every other time he will either nod in agreement with whatever is being said or asked, or make small noises of discomfort, pain, or happiness.

While I love characters and personality, this is such a common thing in JRPGs, that it's hard to not find myself playing at least 12 games a year with these sort of set-ups. Take the Persona and Shin Megami Tensei series that I happen to be a huge fan of.
But on the other hand, there are just as many games like the Tales of series, Final Fantasy, and Legend of Heroes (Trails of Cold Steel for a more recent example) that have main characters with personality, vast worlds, and a cast that can be either just as distinct and unique as normal people, or basic stereotypes that never get fleshed out past the bare-minimum.

My point is, I've decided to explore just what exactly happens to these "Silent Protagonists" and the whole "inside a game" genre of the writing industry that exists exactly because of the large amount of videos games and how popular they are out there.

My main problem is I haven't personally read a lot of stories that do this well. (I have a difficult relationship with the Sword Art Online series as a whole, mostly the mess that is the anime, so I won't count that). While I can easily envision how to make a game work on a writing level in my mind, its a lot different when you try to put it on paper. How do I show accurately that this is a reality that has been transformed into a game?

I can envision how the UI (User Interface) and the menus will look. I can even sit down and try to dissect the battle system and I've even figured out the way "multiple" endings will be decided and visibly tracked by the game's system to the player. I can get things like this down because of the amount of games I've played myself and the things I've seen work well and just end up being a mess. (Though I will admit I'm still torn about the way the Class/Job/Role system I have envisioned will end up working out because I quite liked the system from Final Fantasy X-2 and would like to do something similar here, but we'll see.) But I don't know how this should/can be easily translated into written form as video games are such a visual piece of media.

If anyone knows of any novel series that do this well (or comic if they are explained in an easy to understand manner), please do share! If it's something you've read on here or somewhere else or even something you yourself have written. I would love to check it out and get a feel for how this style of media is conveyed well.

...Also, I'm very sorry for how long this mess of thoughts ended up being. I just felt it might be good to give some explination for anyone who isn't quite as familar with the general JRPG field. I would like to thank any poor soul who might respond to this in advanced.

Thank you!

[PennieWagner]

Alright, I suppose based on the lack of any response, there aren't any stories of this type on Tapas or something?

[solhawthorne]

The lack of response is prolly because it's been only 2 hours, you got a text wall, and I'm not really sure what you're trying to accomplish right now Are you writing or making a game?

Either way, silent protagonists are popular in games due to self-insertion effect. Personally, I never understood that very well because unless my character is totally modeled off of me I can't really get the self-insertion feel. I guess it works because it does sell games.

But silent protagonists are terrible characters. How can we know who they are if they never try to communicate? If you write a story about a silent person, maybe because they're mute, you'll inevitably try to show that character's personality somehow because if you don't the character, and your story, would be very boring. I have seen comics that have mute characters but they always sign or gesture or write, and usually expressively.

[PennieWagner]

Well, my idea is that the in this story, the main character is sort of possessed and turned into a silent protagonist. The world around her is transformed to fit into the "story" of the game that is created with her at the center.
She had her own life, goals, and motivations before this. Sure, she would have just been a random NPC in a video game, as there was nothing out of the ordinary about her. But through this event, her life becomes something completely different. I've also been playing with a few other ideas, but that's a piece of what I have so far.
Also, thank you for the response.

[Amithea]

Nyx in the Overworld incorporates video game-like elements into it quite well? Amissio has a character that's effectively been muted.
That's all I could think of based on what you wrote here, but maybe it'll help?

[minerrale]

Try looking for Legendary Moonlight Sculptor, it's a light-novel and a comic. I can't remember if I saw them here on Tapas or somewhere else, but it's (in my opinion) much better than SAO and much more dug-in. The protagonist is not a silent one, though.
Hope this helps!

[karunashi]

While I have mixed feelings towards the SAO franchise myself due to the anime (it wasn't bad by any means, just felt off I guess?), I've heard that the light novels are better than the actual anime (and I think they actually remade it again called SAO Progressive).

As one person mentioned, Legendary Moonlight Sculptor's light novel (never read manhwa/comic version of it) and it does indeed have game elements in the writing itself in the form of UI/game interactions within the world and it really does make you feel like the perspective is from someone stuck in a game with the game UI (notifications/skill levels/etc) while still not really being "transported into another world" sort of a deal. It's quite a long read though (I think I have like 48 more volumes to go so definitely behind on it-- but the volumes I did read (3+) did quite a great job.

If you're more interested in stories written by native English speakers, I believe they dubbed their genre as "LitRPG" and you can find their reddit page and look more into the community along with the many authors going into this genre (not sure if anyone's done a silent protagonist there, but the few books I read there did definitely have a lot of game-elements). Just a disclaimer, you'll find some authors self-proclaim themselves as the father of the genre and/or the best in their genre-- so try to just avoid comments that are opinionated there and stick to finding stories' synopses and go from there. Even the lower quality stories there have some interesting implementation of the game world aspect into their stories.

If you're open to exploring the many successful stories exploring this type of video game immersion sort of a deal, I believe a lot of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean novels have this element. Simply visit novelupdates to search through their database of various works ranging from amateur works all the way to professionally published novels going around globally in various translations (due to their popularity).

I can probably keep going on since I'm quite an avid reader of all types of novels, but I think it'll become a wall of text so I'll stop there.

Note: If you want to do a silent protagonist, just don't do what this game did... There's a reason to utilize the silent protagonist narrative which usually helps various people identify with the protagonist and immerse themselves, and then there's the wrong and terrible way. Don't be Square Enix,

[kip]

I’m a bit confused on what exactly you’re looking for, I gotta admit.
At first I thought you meant ARGs, then it sounded like POV games, now I guess what you mean is, a game with a specific plot following a silent protagonist where we later discover is actually a solid character?

Rather than research into immersion techniques it seems to me like you just need to build a solid plot, since at the end of the day you’re not looking to have a silent protagonist.
Theoretically all really need to do is have a solid plot to support your plot twist.
Maybe there’s a missing person the whole game and then midway you discover the missing person was you all along when the police is called on you, but your (scripted) reactions still fit the binary of your ‘overwrite’.
Or maybe you run into a figure from your past in the middle of the game, confronting the players with the fact you have one more subtly.
There’s a lot of ways a plot like this can go and I feel like immersion should only be a very small part of the game since it’s the part that’s leading up to the ‘true plot’. It’s those few scenes in DDLC before shit goes down, basically.

Sidenote, a FPS might even be more interesting to implement this inside, rather than a JRPG-style/RPGMaker game, since we expect them to have silent protagonists by default.

[jensrichard77]

I do not know if this would help you.
But I have here an alternative game-comic. It is one of my first work and it is not special well written.
But there are some experimental good things there.
The comic is made with screenshots from the mobile sandbox game Pocket Build. And the story was a living story where the reader took the decisions like in a game.
Part 1

The Prophesy Of Complete Evil | Tapas

Part 2

ADIAN - As told by Bendt Evil | Tapas

[PennieWagner]

Thank you! I'll be sure to look into this when I can.

[PennieWagner]

Thank you! What I'm looking for is how one goes about creating a "game-reality", with only words. I'll be sure to check this out. All the references and research I can do will help immensely.

[PennieWagner]

I'll have to watch some gameplay videos on "that game", to get a feel for what they did wrong.
My goal is sort of complicated. I'm looking for reference on how to create a "game reality" in a novel.
From the sounds of your explination, this should help a lot. Thank you very much.

[PennieWagner]

So for anyone wanting to reply or just curiously confused, my goal current idea that I have is this:

Imagine you're living your life like any other day, and a bright flashing light slams into you out of nowhere.
When you come to, everything around you makes no sense and you watch as someone goes through the process of naming their character, "you". Once that happens, the view changes to the start of the game.
People that were the parents of your dead best friend are now suddenly your parents.
The young woman who use to run a bakery down the street is suddenly dressed in adventuring clothing and is something like a Hunter.

The father and son who use to run the blacksmith now suddenly don't know each other at all and the son is an orphan who lives on the streets, stealing to survive.

The whole world that you once knew is changed completely to fit the world of the game that took over...

You can't speak. What you can do is scream in your mind and watch as "someone" chooses from different prompts and controls your body and actions.

I plan on having my MC slowly start to rebel, or learn to at least.

Imagine you're playing a game and when you tell the character to go forward, they don't move or go backwards for a few seconds. Or you go to use an item to heal and instead the character defends. Small things like that, at first.

Also, what happens when the player saved their game and quits? What happens if the player screws up and gets a Game Over?

These are the things I'm curious about and wanting to experiment with. Of course, I don't expect this to work out perfectly all at once. It's going to take a lot of work. But it really does intrigue me.

[jensrichard77]

That sounds exactly like a fantasy version of the Black Mirror episode ”USS Callister”

USS Callister

And I’ll love to read that

[baasinsimple]

I feel like nearly every story except Log Horizon kinda falls apart. But first things first, the silent protagonist isn't a good way to go except for the off-handed gag. I think you need to consider the silent protagonist's use in JRPGs as a whole, it's used so it can be a self-insert for the player, because if you think about it a Silent protagonist isn't really a character, it's a mask or a persona if you will (ba-dum-tsss) that the player takes that meshes with the player's decisions so the actual 'character' of the protagonist is the player. At most S.P's 'characteristics' are purely evoked from their design. I'm not saying it can't be done but you still need to consider the actual purpose of an S.P. The other question is what are you trying to actually simulate. There's a clear difference between MMOs, JRPGs and WRPGs (Western role playing games) that need to be made. An MMO has a much more artificial world for the sake of social interactions and has much more UI based stuff. Like armor kits, skill-slots, Class-heavy combat, Guilds, EXP farming, trade etc. A JRPG is, more often than not much more linear, If you tried to make something a JRPG story, at that point, you would be better off taking out that element as a whole unless the elements and meta in deeply engrained because a Jrpg is pretty much a relfection of the anime of the period it was made and is a reflection of those stories. WRPGs on the other hand, is something that doesn't happen alot that we could see more of. Think about it, WRPGs like isometrics and causuals have a huge focus on divided quest story lines, looting and crafting. I really think that you took the crazy-ass customization of WRPGs like morrowind and combine it with the jrpg culture or vibes it would be cool.

[jensrichard77]

There is a lot of good things here too, and I believe that this could work if done right.
Perhaps the protagonist only is silent/mute in gameplay, but not for the reader and/or the player.

Let the protagonist think and comment what a normal player would think when the game gives speak options. Let the protagonist brake the 4. Wall and try to get help from the reader or player. Perhaps the real game is for the player and protagonist to work together and brake the game to find new ways?

And will other protagonist/NPCs try to communicate behind the game?

That way, I believe it will work.

[jensrichard77]

oh. And there is this movie where a player controls a real live person in a death game.
Somethings to get inspirations from.

Gamer (2009)

[jensrichard77]

The SP works in games, just at you say here.
Bethesda found out that when they put on a full-voiced protagonist in Fall Out 4 and the fans didn't like it. And I do not think that we will not see that when The Elder Scrolls 6 came out.
Me as a player, I prefer to give the protagonist my own imagination personality to binding with the game.
But if that protagonist has its will by itself. I as a player will delete that. But as a reader of a story about the protagonist, I will know what's going on in her mind

[PennieWagner]

I'll have to check that out! I was sitting playing one of my games and me and my husband starting discussing what it must be like to be a silent Protaganists and it eventually formed into this idea of mine.

[PennieWagner]

That does sound neat. I've never been one for much western-styled things because 95% of them seem to be shooter and I'm...not a fan.
But as I'm still in the baby-stages of figuring out exactly what I want to do and how I want to do it, that would be something to consider.