Where do you draw the line between bromance, and fujobait?

F.uckYou 2020-10-25 22:09:51 UTC #1

I saw a girl comment on WT saying that boys running together is gay... wtf.

ar-ninetysix 2020-10-25 22:36:18 UTC #2

Fellas, is it gay to hang out with your homies?

I take back the poll actually. It was meant as a joke, but I realized I don't wanna see anyone saying yes. The answer's very obviously no lol

nostalgicroxas 2020-10-25 23:04:05 UTC #3

How are they drawn vs intention vs what is the culture this is made in?

Shang in Mulan (original Disney animated film from the 90's). Apparently a lot of LBGT+ people see him as a LBGT+ character because he was "crushing on Mulan as a guy". And I'm like, what? That's not at all the case - his life was literally saved - wouldn't you be in awe of some noob saving your butt?

Yuri and Flynn (Tales of Vesperia). Made in Japan. For a culture in Japan that isn't widely accepting of gays. Like as a whole, Japan is, and very much was at the time the game/film released, homophobic. The fact that the boys are always talking about the other or thinking about the other, in Japanese subtle-ties that is a hint at a gay relationship. The devs do not ever and have not ever so far as I know state that they are a couple.

Slay and Mikleo (Tales of Zesteria) Made in Japan. Several years after Vesperia, and after Yuri tops the charts as a favorite of Tales of male characters (hard to beat a certain 'nother character in popularity lol). They are confirmed by the developers that they will be a couple post-game plot. Mikleo takes on roles - that is he has the plot devices - generally given to the main female of the game. Example: Lloyd and Colette, lots of childhood memories and need of saving another / protecting the other -> this is translated that Colette's actions as a woman in the plot equate to Mikleo's actions, instead of them being given to any of the other girls in the story. The girls do have traditional Tales of type roles, but the largest that affect the MC (Slay) are done by Mikleo.

All of the boys in FREE! (Swimming Anime). So this one's more silly. The trailer for this was just the animation company showing what they could do in terms of skill, and it went viral. Because it did, they felt the need to make a story. While the characters physically look like and act like they could fall into gay tropes, most of the story psychologically is a bromance / hints of LBGT, but again it's lighter.

Yuri on Ice (ice skating anime). I have qualms with this anime, but in short, it was made for the BL/yaoi audience, so large portions of the relationship plot are inferred and meant for the fans to create their own stories about the characters. That is, "this show was made for the consumer" instead of "this show was made to be consumed".

FREE! was made to be consumed, YoI was made for the consumer to add on. aka: We made Star Wars, vs Here's a D&D guide book. YoI was fujobait. Yuri and Flynn were bromance.

snailienz 2020-10-25 23:14:41 UTC #4

Why are we referring to it as "fujobait" exactly? Is this specifically about comics grabbing for people who fetishize gay men or do you mean "gay but not stated"?

I think it really depends on the viewers interpretation. Two characters running together isn't inherently gay of course, but there are not many details to what you referenced. It would depend on context. Sometimes straight people overlook two characters interactions that a gay person might identify with.

The truth is there isnt so much a " line" as there is a decahedron XD

F.uckYou 2020-10-25 23:36:22 UTC #5

I guess the right term is "queerbaiting" English isn't my first language... sorry for that.

rainbowolfe 2020-10-26 02:42:13 UTC #6

but yuri on ice ended with yuri and victor getting together? where's the bait?

HGohwell 2020-10-26 04:43:45 UTC #7

A lot of it is high subjective. For instance, so people go "the relationship wasn't confirmed!!!" and call it queerbait when the relationship was pretty confirmed. While not a gay example, this was levelled at Symphogear's final season (and Symphogear in general) because we didn't get the Final Confession despite the fact that we had not 1 but 2 couples of lesbians yelling (in song) that they loved each other since season 2. It's explicitly confirmed in and out of canon that these songs are your hearts true feelings. A senior member of staff even said about this once on twitter he doesn't see why they need to kiss to be counted as confirmed. But this is queetbaiting to some.

Queerbaiting is, really, defined as creators purposefully playing to romantic or queer tropes with no intention of ever making it a relationship, which is different to leaving it merely implied. But in these days of the internet it's sorta anything where there's not a gay couple. (That's an exaggeration, but it doesn't feel like it sometimes.) Things like people in canon constantly mistaking them for boyfriend, music cues, certain shots (one infamous anime one that fandom loved to dissect, the slow pan up of the legs for the love interest was used for the male team leader in a flashback in YGO 5Ds) that imply a relationship could or has formed but the creators continue to deny it, or even laugh at fans for assuming so (looking at you Sherlock) when they're playing these tropes to hold an audience on the promise of "maybe if you keep watching".

F.uckYou 2020-10-26 04:52:39 UTC #8

So the fans are delusional? I mean, if a male character hug another, you either see that as close friends, or like the fans say "THE BIG GAY!!11" right? it feels like the problem is also the fans, not only the creators.

HGohwell 2020-10-26 05:00:02 UTC #9

You're taking that a bit out of context.

If a creator uses a camera shot that is almost universally used for the Love Interest for a man, than they're not delusional to take from that the implication that the man is the Love Interest. It's a simple mater of if a creator uses tropes that would generally tell you a girl is a love interest on a boy, then the fans will see that boy as the love interest, because that's what they've been trained to see those tropes as meaning.

F.uckYou 2020-10-26 05:09:41 UTC #10

I can understand that, but I was talking about actions, instead of camera shots, people can/will interpret in whatever way they want, heck a girl hugging the guy could be either a close friend or THE BIG STRAIGHT or whatever...

HGohwell 2020-10-26 05:21:06 UTC #11

Part of this is cultural differences. What denotes a relationship in one culture doesn't in others. One example is lots of people seeing those street fashion shots on TikTok and in many Asian countries it's not so unusual for girl friends to hold hands or be close, but in western counties it's usually more romantic.

And people will take things any way they want. People like romance, lots of people thing romance is the best ending for characters and want them to be happy. As you say, it's not just gay. And usually, people who are this loud and over the top about it are young teens who had no idea what real sexual/romantic tension really is.

As I say, the difference between queerbaiting and fans reading too much into things, is the intention of the creator and whether or not they're actually using romantic tropes.

F.uckYou 2020-10-26 05:27:37 UTC #12

HGohwell:

Part of this is cultural differences. What denotes a relationship in one culture doesn't in others. One example is lots of people seeing those street fashion shots on TikTok and in many Asian countries it's not so unusual for girl friends to hold hands or be close, but in western counties it's usually more romantic.

And people will take things any way they want. People like romance, lots of people thing romance is the best ending for characters and want them to be happy. As you say, it's not just gay. And usually, people who are this loud and over the top about it are young teens who had no idea what real sexual/romantic tension really is.

As I say, the difference between queerbaiting and fans reading too much into things, is the intention of the creator and whether or not they're actually using romantic tropes.

Such a great answer, it makes a lot of sense that people don't take the culture in account, in my country people hug a lot, even strangers, but in other countries hugs are exclusive to close friends / lovers / family, really interesting, and yeah, there's queerbaiting, but there's also fans reading too much into it, like I said, it's not only a creator's problem, (some) fans are just too invested hehe, and like you said, most are teens, thank you so much for your insightful answer~