Who else thinks this trope is awful?

WillowTree 2020-10-20 23:06:09 UTC #21

You worded this perfectly

HGohwell 2020-10-20 23:08:56 UTC #22

You must be watching different anime since most the time (mostly because of the decay of this trope from aloof to soft as you get to know them into violent mood swings all the time) even when they get nicer, heaven help her man if someone else flirts with him or looks at him or speaks to him. He's hers. And that's ignoring the fandoms who look at women beating up their partners and declare them a Queen and strong female character at last, yay!

Also seeing them open up is supposed to be the appeal of the protective cold boyfriend too. But as with all things (including the tsundere) people copy the trop without understand the actual reasons and it decays into something else, usually more "problematic" and less enjoyable because it's a hollow copy without understanding.

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 23:19:22 UTC #24

I guess I'm dumb then.

Shredder 2020-10-20 23:23:19 UTC #25

I think I heard this in the cards against humanity game, the card read.

"My abusive boyfriend is a really nice guy when you get to know him."

The trope can go, most younger audiences see it as acceptable because the guy/girl is attractive so it makes it okay, though I would really like to read a story where the point is the fact that the relationship is abusive.

cherrystark 2020-10-20 23:23:52 UTC #26

I have so many feelings about these types of characters, but I'll save those for another time.

I like the way you worded this. When the "protective, cold boyfriend" is done well, you get to see him be softer and warmer. He still may present some of those "cold" tendencies but you'll understand his reasons better, like the appeal of Mr. Darcy, he's a shy man who presents as cold but is fiercely protective of those he cares about. The dominant, forceful girlfriend, when done right, can be the same way.

HGohwell 2020-10-20 23:31:25 UTC #27

I said you'd clearly had different experiences with a trope to me, that's it. I didn't call you dumb, I simply said you had a different experience with the trope, I doubt we've watched all the same anime, after all, and explained why it might be popular and why it's become what it has. Please don't try to make me seem like a bad guy for doing that as if I've insulted you by having a discussion.

Exactly this. So many of these tropes, when done right, can be so good. But people jus copy it and it loses what made it good. Often, it's the character development that gets the boot. There's nothing wrong with a cold, aloof, protective, manipulative, even sadistic boyfriend character (I love them) but it has to be balances, and that's the problem often made worse by the fact that the love interest doesn't balance them either. A boyfriend character like that needs an equally strong love interest to balance him, match him and give as good as they get without crossing into abuse territory (it's possible and it's a lot of fun when it's done right). It's like when shows copy what's popular and you end up with lots of copy cat shows that lack what made the original good, but for characters.

joannekwan 2020-10-20 23:36:47 UTC #28

This pretty much is The Phantom Thread, where the love interest over the course of the movie learns about the main guy and figures how to handle him and they end up in this weird relationship that's kind of screwy but entertainingly so and the two end up complementing each other pretty well.

(Side note: It wasn't presented as a sweeping romantic romance either.)

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 23:39:36 UTC #29

No, I genuinely don't have any experience with tsundere as a trope, I just thought I understood it based on what I heard about it.

snailienz 2020-10-20 23:46:34 UTC #30

Hot take but what they WISH they wrote was "hot man is super protective and cares about his significant other" hotter take, bl is a LARGE culprite of this same damn thing and I hate it.

HGohwell 2020-10-20 23:50:45 UTC #31

I think this is the most important thing write any couple. If they don't compliment each other, what's the point in them?

One of my favourite odd but very entertaining couples that could have fallen into abusive but actually didn't was a niche manga that told the villain's side of the anime. And these two fucked up former child soldiers were sadistic cold commanding planner and sniper who cries at movies about animals and the energetic, book dumb, womanizing combat specialist with good instincts. And their relationship, while could have fallen into controlling from the more obviously dominant sniper character, but balances it with a lot of "because my gut says so" being right and an equal amount of "yeah I know you're trying to be protective but I'm gonna do my thing anyway" and in the end the seemingly softer character being the one very much in control and just letting the other do their thing because they trusted each other when it came down to it and it was fantastic and a mess and incredibly fun to read and I wish I could remember it's name.

Shredder 2020-10-20 23:54:19 UTC #32

Wait... Hang on... Jormungand? I loved that one!

HGohwell 2020-10-21 00:01:34 UTC #33

Nope, never even heard of that but if it's got the same premise I'm sold on it already, time to go hunt it down.

Shredder 2020-10-21 00:03:24 UTC #34

Same sort of idea, it follows an arms dealer and her group of bodyguards, her newest addition to her group of bodyguards is a young child soldier who the story focuses on.

colorgoat 2020-10-21 00:11:49 UTC #35

I wish we can have a conversation about how bad and fetishy m/m can get with tropes like this that can be legitimately harmful instead of just going "ughhh too much bl" every month, which doesn't help at all either

Shredder 2020-10-21 00:20:52 UTC #36

I'm not into BL and I doubt I will be in the future, but is it really that bad? My preconception of it has always been kinda "two men showing a sweet side to one another"

snailienz 2020-10-21 00:35:41 UTC #37

True! I actually am more upset by the fact that so MUCH bl includes tropes that stereortype mlm as predatory or promiscuous (especially on the "top" side, bc holy shit if your top acts like that stab him????hello????)

Seaby 2020-10-21 00:46:06 UTC #38

This actually reminds me of how Killing Stalking does the abusive lover trope 'right'.
As in, the possessive love interest is a literal serial killer, and the MC is deranged enough to forgive him after he breaks his legs to keep him from running away (and a plethora of other terrible things). It exemplifies these negative traits to their extremes and doesn't try to pretend it's cute or desirable, it's unapologetic psychological horror.

rajillustration 2020-10-21 00:51:15 UTC #39

one of my biggest peeves with the trope (which is bad in itself) is that it forces the author to write themselves into a wall--how do they write that this character changed when the character is in fact unable to change? I dunno either, author, good luck with that.

Seaby 2020-10-21 01:00:40 UTC #40

Especially when they decide to give up and give their characters a personality transplant. Change takes time, it's not possible for them to wake up one day and realize how much of a jerk they've been and instantly stop being heartless.

rajillustration 2020-10-21 01:01:22 UTC #41

Lol yes, the number of stories I've read and watched where the problematic characters all walk into therapy and then three weeks later are like "I'm better now!"

lol that's not how therapy works.