Who else thinks this trope is awful?

Stargazer31 2020-10-20 18:55:14 UTC #1

The trope where in a romantic film with a man and a woman, the man is an overbearing, sometimes abusive, obsessive, control freak, but it's portrayed as being "romantic."
Such films as Passengers, Twilight and the dreadful 50 shades franchise all use this, and I can't be the only one who thinks it's misogynistic and wrong?
Does anybody agree that this trope needs to GO!

Pony_wearing_a_hat 2020-10-20 20:40:59 UTC #2

Oh, my god. YES! Are you aware of Dominic Noble? He's a booktuber who has a history of tearing this stuff to SHREDS. As he very well should. This trope sucks. (Literally in Twilight)

NickRowler 2020-10-20 20:55:46 UTC #3

A lot of people hate this trope. It is sort of the main criticism with the movie 365 Days.

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 20:57:15 UTC #4

The part I hate is how if this was reversed nobody would like it.

Seaby 2020-10-20 21:04:22 UTC #5

It's the trope hack romance writers fall into because they want to portray a disconnected and cold man who grows warmer (more 'human' in some cases) because of true love. It's not bad fundamentally, but there are writers who take it too far and portray their cold bad boys as straight up abusive. What makes it worse is how the woman (usually a woman) forgives all his past wrongdoings as though suddenly growing a conscience and feeling empathy for others is enough to forgive anything from sexual violence to emotional abuse.

cherrystark 2020-10-20 21:11:24 UTC #6

Yes, a million times yes. My biggest issue is that no where in the story is the male character expected to grow and change. Sure, there are men IRL with these traits, but there are also men that realize that they have character flaws and actively work to make themselves better. The female characters in these stories are no better. It would have been an entirely different story if Bella in Twilight would have said "um no, I don't know you that well. Your behavior isn't acceptable" at any time during the series. Heck, they don't even really date. They go on like two legit dates (if that) and after that, they're too in love to ever be separated.

Pony_wearing_a_hat 2020-10-20 21:22:15 UTC #7

I think... I think you just explained where problematic romance stories come from. Like, you got into the head of so many writers who seem to easily write the most textbook abusive relationship, seemingly without realizing it. That's amazing!

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 21:25:45 UTC #8

Some stories aren't even going that route though. Twilight wouldn't dare actually make Edward have intentional flaws.

joannekwan 2020-10-20 21:29:18 UTC #9

THIS basically! I don't mind the trope in itself, but there's gotta be an acknowledgment by the characters that it's not okay. Or the author presents it as not okay through descriptions and narration, if they presented it dry or matter-of-factly at the very least and not make it like a dream date.

And by having the base trope, it's an easy segue into a character development arc too? But not all authors jump on that and just keep the abusive character abusive without any steps toward change?

I love writing disconnected and cold people. But how others write it just doesn't add up to me. Like my characters are disconnected and cold, so why would they obsess over a particular character and want to control every aspect of their lives? lol

cherrystark 2020-10-20 21:46:46 UTC #10

This is my lazy side talking, but it sounds like too much effort to control every aspect of someone else's life... *With the exception of if you choose to care for tiny humans or take a caretaker's role.

DasIstWunderblyat 2020-10-20 21:51:17 UTC #11

Me.

To people who says "This is fiction, let people enjoy thing" should see how teens and young people have skewed perception on what is "normal" non-abusive relationship. There are ways to write bad relationships and it is never wrong to write such, just make sure they aren't treated as #relationshipgoals for audience to aspire to or romanticised/normalised.

Phantomlight 2020-10-20 21:52:55 UTC #12

This right here. I mean, I understand if a character isn't a nice person at first, like their personality has work to do. For example, if a character has trouble connecting with others and is a bit of a butt, but not to the point of verbal or physical abuse of other characters, including their love interest. I like the cold to warm change of a person if, like you said, they realize how their attitude or behaviors aren't okay. There are characters that are the way they are because of their pasts or their upbringing, which doesn't excuse them but it's something to understand about the character. If they realize change will better their own life and they can become a better person, that's a step in the right direction, but personally I don't like the possessive/abusive. Cold to warm person change, sure, but when a relationship is looking to be toxic/unhealthy I will drop that series and I hardly drop anything because if I get too deep into it, I have to see the end. Even terrible movies xD But nope, possessive, abusive, toxic, or unhealthy are no-go for me.

@cherrystark: Like right? xD I can hardly "control" my own life, I can't imagine what kind of people have time to control other people's life, that's just crazy in my opinion!

CodeMonkeyArts 2020-10-20 22:39:27 UTC #13

That's how I see it too. My romance is called a toxic/horror romance for a reason and it's portrayed as not healthy and good. Also, I genderswapped it so the woman is the abusive, controlling, unstable one with her love interest is the victim. Like if I going into a story that has a black cover, red text, and a chilling excerpt, I totally am down for some dark romance fuckery.

But if it's suppose to be the one true romance? That book is gonna get thrown out of the window.

DokiDokiTsuna 2020-10-20 22:42:40 UTC #14

Actually, I think people do like the role reversal (abusive girlfriend+doormat boyfriend) they just like it in a different way. Instead of being seen as hot and romantic, it's seen as kinky and funny.

During the 00's when the 'tsundere' trope was a big thing, it was normal to see anime where the cute angry girl character regularly beats the living hell out of the male MC at the slightest provocation...but even leaving out over-the-top slapstick like that, in general, men in media who are pushed around by their female partners are usually mocked and laughed at, even in shows where maybe the tone shouldn't support that perspective...

And of course, the girl's actions are never taken seriously. ^^; The message is usually either 'b*tches be crazy' (i.e. girls don't know what they want; if they act aggressive it's only to hide their feelings of love) or 'a REAL man would be able to control his woman'...anything toxic/misogynistic along those lines. =/

I guess the moral of the story is that any horrible relationship dynamic can be justified, so it's important to think critically about these things. ^^;

HGohwell 2020-10-20 22:56:41 UTC #15

Hahahahaaaa during the 00s implies it's not still huge these days too (I really hate the violent tsundere trope with such a passion)

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 22:58:29 UTC #16

Yeah but those are seen as funny and the girls aren't meant to be taken seriously, and whatever bad things they do are portrayed as wrong, meanwhile no male character who acts abusively in a romance is treated as wrong for it.

HGohwell 2020-10-20 23:00:33 UTC #17

Just to be clear, they are not portrayed as wrong, they're portrayed as funny because "it's her way of showing she likes him" and these violent outbursts are veeeeery often caused by jealousy and possessiveness over another girl interacting with her man. But look, so loves him so much she'll beat him up for looking at another girl, isn't it hilarious?

migxmeg 2020-10-20 23:02:36 UTC #18

I try not to get into toooo many controversial conversations, but I guess I'm curious if my viewpoint is just nuts and I feel like the community here is a safe place to have interesting discussions so here goes.

Toxic romance that people enjoy reading feels similar to gratuitous video game violence to me. There are definitely fantasies that people have that would be horrible in a real life relationship, but it can be enjoyable to live those out a bit through fiction. It's tricky because you don't want to romanticize or normalize it, but... I also wouldn't want to shame someone that enjoys it and it's nice to have an outlet.

JoshRaid 2020-10-20 23:05:25 UTC #19

Usually, her behavior is in fact portrayed as a character flaw. The whole appeal of the tsundere is seeing her open up and become nicer.

joannekwan 2020-10-20 23:05:56 UTC #20

I agree! And mature stories with dark themes should be allowed, they just shouldn't be marketed to impressionable teenagers in a way that makes the relationships seem like something to be desired in real life.