Why aren't comics as big as the movies?

studiomik 2015-05-13 08:48:08 UTC #1

It's growing, there are international comic-cons and awards, like the Eisner Award and all...

But still comics aren't as HUGE as other books/movies/bands.
Superhero comics are getting there of course. But are comics still underappreciated?

Don't get me wrong, i wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a famous actor running away for paparazzi.
But i do think people are missing out on a lot of beautiful and accesable art!

Everybody knows bands and has a taste in music.
But when i asked people about comics, i always get the same old comic names.

Is it because it's 'only childish drawings' for a lot of people?
Are comic creators to intro-verted to step into the spotlight?
Or are comics just to hard to read for none-comic-readers?
Or is that people like the figures, not the creators?

Just wondering a lot about this stuff. Meaby i'm missing something haha
But i think comics are a great art-form and i see so much talented work here.

I don't have all the answers, but any thoughts on this?

keii4ii 2015-05-13 09:05:12 UTC #2

In the USA, it's largely because comics have long been dominated by superheroes and gag-a-days. Superheroes are a niche genre; you can't attract everyone with just one genre. Sure, there are lots of comics that don't fall into superheroes or gag-a-days, but a lot of people don't even know they exist. And it's too much effort for them to go LOOK for the type of comics they might like, because they have plenty of other choices (like books and movies) for which they don't have to look as hard.

In areas where comics have been as diverse as other kinds of story media, such as Japan or Korea, comics ARE as big as movies.

Another problem is some comics are HARDER TO READ THAN STRAIGHT UP PROSE, at least to me. This problem is highly prevalent in "compressed" comics, i.e. comics with lots of text. Why is straight up prose easier to read? Because with prose, there's at least no confusion as to what order I'm supposed to be reading the text (jumbled speech bubbles where I can't even figure out the order in which they're supposed to be read = a big headache).

A closely related issue is that with prose, you always read left to right, then down (in English at least). With comics, if the creator is not attentive enough to this stuff, the eyes must travel in all kinds of directions and make awkward turns to read the text and to look at important details.

Some people have been trained to read difficult-to-read comics, so they don't realize the problem is there. But I know it's there for a lot of comics, including professional ones. My bro is a non-reader of comics, and this issue is the main reason he doesn't bother to look. Sure, he'll find some with good, or even excellent, readability if he looks hard enough... but again, why bother when he can just go for books?

You've touched upon something really important, @studiomik. Webcomics aren't just competing against other webcomics, or even against other comics. We are competing against every story out there, in every medium. I don't mean compete as in some scary cutthroat sense (we should be supportive of each other!). I'm just saying, "good for a webcomic" or even "good for a comic" isn't good enough... at least for me.

getsuart 2015-05-13 10:33:17 UTC #3

Here, I think it cans be explained simply as "it's a kid thing". IIRC, our previous minister of culture declared at a big and serious comic event that comics were good for children to read. And she didn't know about the big crisis we have for comics (a way too much comics, not enough readers, not well paid). If the minister of culture doesn't care, why the population should care ?
And I must say that a lot of people are giggling when I say I'm an artist AND I make comics. Because... Yeah, I'm doing a child thing.

But after all, I have nothing else to add, Keiiii said it all !

elixiadragmire 2015-05-13 11:34:33 UTC #4

People see it as the norm for me ... mainly 'cause I'ma kids illustrator.

kei HAS hit the nail on the head here and with some critical reviews I'm trying to make my pages ' easier to read' and in th process of going back of the old pages to adapted them to be easier to read.

Promotion is the tricky one and it mainly due to stigma and a limited reading pool

Diabolo 2015-05-13 12:03:04 UTC #5

Movies and series are more accessible than comics, I think. Even if comics were not mainly seen as "something for kids", they have many disadvantages against filmed media:
- Just like when you read a book, your brain has to make an effort to process what you see. You cannot digest it right away. You cannot just sit there and drink the realistic images and the sounds.
- it doesn't move ; it doesn't feel at once like real life.
- it doesn't have "real people" in it ; the characters are drawn, they veery clearly doesn't exist. They are not embodied by actors you can relate to, they do not look like they could be alive somewhere. While this gives us comic reader more to dream on, they are far less charismatic and relatable figures than good old Robert Iron Man Downey Jr. Comic characters and universe are just so less tangible.
- marketingly speaking, there's a lot less communication around comics, mostly because... well it's a much less profitable industry.

Those are only a few reasons, but I'm sure there are a ton more!

getsuart 2015-05-13 12:16:35 UTC #6

Well, it's mostly because I'm with people who think as having a work = not doing art. Because drawing is for children, unless it's a super realistic portrait or a Rembrandt painting. It's really sad, but I get over it :/

Now we'll just have to wait for better holograms.

Maybe it has also something to do with the lenghth ? I mean, movies are from 1h30 to 2h long. Following a comicbook serie can take... years. It's really long, not everyone can wait so long.

Anyway, there is a tons of reasons why comics aren't as big as movies, but fortunately, it doesn't stop everyone to take a look at this media !

crabman21 2015-05-13 15:29:42 UTC #7

A lot of ppl think only "nerds" or "geeks" read comics. And or it's a childish hobby to read, own, or collect comics. Sheeesh will we ever get our turn in the spot light??? Lol

Doubtcent 2015-05-13 16:06:22 UTC #8

Here's my opinion as to why comics are not as big as movies. (some of these points have already been said, but this is just my take)

Comics are young.
Compared to movies and books, comics have only been declared as an art form for a couple of decades, which is similar to what video games have been going through today. Even motion pictures had to go through this process a long while ago. As we see it, comics are getting more and more ground as years go on, with better story, better art, better execution, and easier ways to find them. Soon enough this issue will no longer be one.
Comics are a niche market.
Go to your local everything store (Walmart, Target, K-mart, etc.) You'll find a section for big section for movies, maybe a smaller one for books, and big ones for video games. You won't find comics really anywhere unless they're something like the Archie comics, and even those are hard to come by. So what do we have? Comic book stores, (which are hard to find. I'm lucky to know where some are) and that small, cornered-off section of Barn&Noble (or whatever equivalent you may have).
Comics are not advertised by major companies.
At least in America and Europe, comics have little to no advertisement for the product. The only place I've heard it actually appear in advertising is Japan and parts of Korea, but that's as far as I've known. Compared to video games, T.V. shows and movies that rack in millions, even if they bomb, comics are not profitable compared to them, so companies won't advertise them. But because they're not advertised, they don't get money. And since they don't bring in much money, companies won't advertise them. But because...
Comics were an immature medium.
This has been touched on before. Comics are not considered to be adult media by the majority of the population. When comics first started out, they were whining (political comics), cramped (compressed comics), nonsensical (really the story of some of the older comics) , juvenile (NSFW), and often considered for children because of the themes presented were never serious. These adjectives have stuck to the comic name and will take a lot of work to peel them off. As comics have gotten better, more and more people are enjoying them, and with movies based on comics (AGE OF ULTRON for example) and convenient places like Tapastic, comics are doing a whole lot better. But until everyone takes them more seriously, we'll still be considered an immature medium.
Dedication.
Comics, lets face it, take a lot more dedication to consume than movies, T.V. shows, video games and books. Other than books, the other three mediums are very passive when it comes to consuming them. (Video games a little less, but still)
Books however have a notifiable quantity to them. If there's a series, you get to read an entire story from beginning to end, for the most part. Comics however take lots of patience to get to the end of a story arc, chapter by chapter, much more than T.V. since it relies on the singular creator's ability to portray it on a page.

That's all I can come up with for now.

studiomik 2015-05-13 17:06:23 UTC #9

Thanks everybody for your thoughts on this. Awesome!

My thoughts:

There is indeed a learning curve to reading comics. And when people can choose they will obviously choose for the easy way of storytelling; a movie.

But is that all? Going to the movies is more than an easy way of getting a story.

Hop on this train of thought with me if you like:

So i guess reading comics is more like a 'sport'. A hobby.
You have to put some effort in it to read a comic. You have to learn it to be good at it. To like it. To appreciate a comic.

And with all things that are hard to learn, there is some kind a reward.
If i learn to walk i can get to someone for a hug.
If i learn to ride a bike i can get to friends and play.
If i like to act and am good at it, i can get into a play and get applause.
If i'm good at playing computer games i can get into competitions with friends and win respect.
If i like movies i can go with my friend to a cinema. Share the same experience.
If i'm good at ...you'll get the idea. There's always some kind of interaction between people.

The problem with books is. It's a lonely activity. You can't read a comic together at the same time.

But if i'm good at / like reading a comic? What's my reward? A cool story for sure! But there's no direct interaction with someone.
You can't directly connect with some one. He/she must have read the same book. And when we meet on a comic-con it's often months in between.

So the question is;
Can we give people a reward for reading a comic? Can we give people direct interaction when reading a comic?

And that's where Tapastic gets in the picture.

I think HERE we can make a difference.
At Tapastic we can reward people for reading a comic and come into direct contact with the reader.
Share the story and share the experience! I think it's awesome to see all the reactions when a comic gets online and there are comments like 'know that feel, bro'

If we can get Tapastic to grow as big as Facebook ( i like to dream big, after all i am a comic artist ) there will indeed be much more demand for comics. More interesting for companies. More artist can make comics, the medium will be taken more seriously and then meaby comic artist can stand in the spotlight and say; yes, i make comics for a living!

*- Hops of the train of thought.- *

Well, meaby i got carried away a bit there (HA! train. carried.) but, that's the reason i like it here. And i think it's a great place to promote not only your own comic, but comics in general. It's a good place to start discovering comics and getting to know the artist and built a connection with the readers. Comics are indeed young and i think a lot of nice things are about to happen.

Pfff, that's a lot of text. glad i got that all out of my system

Have a good evening everyone!

MoiAri 2015-05-13 21:35:55 UTC #10

Ah this a very insightful thread we got here, congrats people of the forum ^_^

I constantly question the existence of comics in all honesty. Like when there is so many "easily consumed" terms of entertainment and stories, why comics?

Thats a good question to ask ourselves as creators and writers as well. "Why. Why are comics read innthe first place?"

My personal answer to that is simply, "cuz"

Its all a personal preference that not many people have, unfortunately. I mean comic/visual-novels are truly an oddball in the collection of entertainment or literature means, But maybe with a successful site like Tapastic growing even larger will give Comics as an industry the shout it needs, and let more Readers know we exist...yo. 0-0

L4213 2015-05-13 22:09:13 UTC #11

i read an article before that the comic industry suffered greatly due to a legal case back in the 199-somethings. consequently, it gave label to comics as a thing for young people

that label is still persistent today. whenever you ask your average person to give an example of a comic. they would probably give a superhero comic (batman superman ) to a weekly sunday strip like comic (garfield calvin hobbes)

i think its the notion of comics are for young people is the biggest hurdle that bars a big portion of the readerbase. many people just think that comics can't be as deep as a novel or as engaging as a movie.

ironically though, video games have become a more accepted form of art faster than comics. i think it probably has to do with the time their popularity peaked. comics became popular at a time where a lot of human issues still happened wheras video games boomed at a time of more open minds.

same can be said for animation media. but i'd disagree. and comics are usually read faster than most novels when compared by page count. it was more of how slow the time it took for a new chapter of the series or a new book to come out. since quality novels take considerably less time to make compared to quality graphic novels.

i would also suggest though that how the US and western influenced countries sold their comics made reading comics tedious. because of how comic books where made an sold. whereas it was one chapter per book which was also filled with ads that just made going through pages a chore (japanese comics sold their stuff anthology style, making a single purchase more worth)

keii4ii 2015-05-13 23:55:49 UTC #12

The sad truth is, comics aren't that mainstream even among the young people, at least in the USA. D:

abbastudios 2015-05-13 23:59:55 UTC #13

It's only in America that comics are looked down upon. Although that is changing. Comics are very well respected in the rest of the world.

aspiderjonny 2015-05-14 02:11:48 UTC #14

Someone mentioned it before, but I think it might be because people feel overwhelmed by the story lengths. Most comics are ongoing where the overarching stories can end but most side stories and character arcs continue for years. Movies (even comic based like Avengers) and novels begin and end there stories. I personally prefer comics because it feels more like a person's life when the "story" doesn't really end, but others might not feel this way.

keii4ii 2015-05-14 04:39:48 UTC #15

That doesn't explain why comics aren't as big as TV shows, though.

But it's definitely a factor with SOME comics, at least. Superhero comics in particular have a terribly high barrier of entry because of all the different continuities. With manga, all you need to do in order to start following a specific series is to find the first volume. With a superhero comic, it gets a whole lot more complicated.

aspiderjonny 2015-05-14 05:36:35 UTC #16

I feel like the concept of continuity scares people more that the actual thing. I, and lot of my friends, pick up series' all the time that are well into the double digit issues. With superhero comics all need to do is find a story arc that's just started, don't pay heavy attention to the issue number. If the writng's good you should be caught up in no time. (BTW a lot of comics now have a quick recap on the first page which is REALLY helpful for new comers)
Companies keep trying to do big events to "eliminate" continuity. Ironically I think theses kinds of stories add to continuity confusion (just look at what happened with DC's New 52). They really should just let the status quo settle for two or more years, then I think people would be more willing to pick up new books.
As for manga. I must admit, I don't read a lot of mangas but from what little I know mangas come out in 100 page volumes as opposed to 24 page issues. They keep the major story condensed in one volume and have character arcs go throughout the next volumes. New readers who see a volume 5 of a manga would probably feel easy reading it then seeing an issue 25 which actually is a part 4 of a story arc. ( it's that same thing with people who exclusively wait for the trade paperback instead of buying the individual issues)
I'm not saying the volume or issue approach are better then the other. Really it comes down to the fact that when you want to try a new series you just want a complete story to know whether or not you'd continue. Sadly, this is something I think movies and tv do a little better than comics. Though comics do ongoing stories better, so it's a little balanced in that regard.

AnnaLandin 2015-05-14 05:54:22 UTC #17

Part of it is that comics have lead a sort of underground, partly-ignored existence. They began life as something used to sell newspapers (editorial cartoons, Sunday-funnies, etc., etc.) and have been fighting to get rid of that brand ever since - not that there's anything wrong with doing gag-a-day strips, or comics for children! Those are both great! But there's a pervasive attitude of dismissing things that are funny as non-serious (best example I can think of off the top of my head; people dismiss Calvin and Hobbes as a gag-a-day strip, when Watterson used it to discuss things like the meaningless of existence, the corruption of political systems and the wonder of the universe. It's just that he managed to be funny at the same time), and that definitely dismisses media aimed at children as something not worthy of respect.

Which is, erm, entirely stupid. The media we consume as children help shape our perception of the world, so it kind of really matters. But this lack of respect means that comics aren't given the same attention as other mediums. Imagine if comics were discussed and reviewed and cared about by the newspapers and tv-news the same way, say, movies are; we'd get a LOT more mainstream acceptance, because we'd be normal. We'd be like the rest of them; everywhere.

And when you're everywhere, people care about you because they kind of have to.

There's also the problem that comics, to an unfortunate extent, are divided into two target demographics - small children and adults. There's very little in between. So you can start reading comics as a child, but eventually you hit a point where there are no comics aimed at your age-group - and you're too young to start reading the comics aimed at adults*. So what do you do? Well, you drift away and stop reading comics, because they're not for you any more anyway - and so the reader-base for adult-aimed comics shrinks. You only get the people who managed to stick around - or who, by some magic, decided to start reading comics as adults. If there was a bridge between children's comics and comics for adult readers, we wouldn't see that same kind of shrinkage.

And then there's the fact that reading comics is like reading a new language. You're not just reading the words - you're reading the pictures, and you're reading them at the same time. In a well-crafted comic, things like the size of panels matter, because they indicate the rhythm of the story. Small panels are read faster - big panels are slower, because you stop to take in the scenery. The reader has to follow the path of the word balloons/speech bubbles across the page, and at the same time keep track of the visuals without getting lost, AND they have to get used to "hearing" a comic; that is, they have to process visual representations of sound - and it's hard. I've been reading comics since I was old enough to read, and my mom read Asterix to me before I could read them myself, so you could say I speak comics as a native language. A lot of other people don't - so there's that threshold to get over.

Also, comics-readership varies from country to country - the same way comics-creation does. The Japanese comics-market is a lot bigger, percentage-wise, than it is in almost any other country. The American comics-market is - to my Swedish eyes - weirdly divided into "mainstream" (superhero-comics, with their 1930s-40s pulp origins) and "indie" (literally everything else). The Swedish comics-market is tiny, and the ones that "make it" (ie: the ones who can make a living off of it) are either gag-strips or autobiographical comics - that is, if it's original content. A LOT of the Swedish comics-market consists of people working on one of the long-running franchises (Bamse, Kronblom, 91:an Karlsson - or The Phantom, an old American pulp-hero that the Swedes have pretty much adopted as their own).

In short - comics are an artform that produces ASTONISHING works, but they just don't get the attention they deserve until they're translated into another medium, like movies.

*) This is not a reflection on what individual people are capable of reading; I'm just saying that there's a big jump in content and tone between, say, Asterix and Watchmen.

@getsuart Wait, wait - you're French, so... she declared that at Angoulême? Seriously? D: Goodness me.

keii4ii 2015-05-14 06:41:04 UTC #18

People think Disney movies are aimed at children, but that doesn't stop them from enjoying them. There's something more specific about comics that makes people think "oh, they're not for me."

And the weird thing is, even though a lot of people say "comics are for kids" when they dismiss the medium... comics aren't that mainstream even among children over here in the US. What a depressing country I live in. XD

IMO, it's the creator's job to make it easy to read. A comic should not be prohibitively difficult to read even to a newcomer of the medium. My bro (a non-comic reader) sometimes glances at the comics I click on and makes comments about the readability: some comics, he can get a gist of what's happening just by looking at a few panels over my shoulder, whereas others, he's like "wtf is going on over there."

I personally try to make it as easily readable as possible -- not just because I'm trying to convert non-readers, but because my own threshold for readability isn't that much higher than that of a non-reader. If I find a comic difficult to read, I give up.

I see TONS of manga aimed at teenagers, at least. I don't know if that's the case for non-manga comics...

AnnaLandin 2015-05-14 07:34:29 UTC #19

@keii4ii Re: Disney movies - movies are a more widely accepted medium than comics, and Disney has a devastating marketing machine. And the point isn't that people don't enjoy stories intended for children - it's that people who aren't directly involved in those stories somehow (readers, creators, etc.) take it less seriously. It's not that they don't think it can/should be enjoyable - it's that they seem to think that since it's for children, the quality and importance of it is inherently lesser than things marketed towards older readers. "It's just for kids" is something I see thrown around a lot, and it irks me.

Re: readability of comics. Yes! Of course it's the creator's job to make things readable and easy to follow - but that only works up to a point. It's still a visual language and a usage of symbols that non-comics-readers aren't used to. Take manga, for example - if I see someone with a big sweat-drop drawn by their head, I know what that means without having to think about it, because I've read a bunch of manga and the symbol is familiar to me. Someone who hasn't will have to stop and think about what they're seeing, thus slowing down their reading-process. The same goes for a lot of other things - it's not that it's impossible to understand for someone who hasn't read comics before - it's just that their approach to the material is different, non-native, and it will slow down and complicate their comprehension of the material. And if things get too slow, they might lose interest.

On the bright side, comics might be a good way for dyslexic people to read - the use of pictures might actually ease their reading experience, as it provides not only a visual cue for how to understand the text, but also provides "breathing room" for them to pause and process the text.

And re: reading material for teenagers - I'm using Sweden as an example here, because that's the area I'm most familiar with. We have comics for younger readers (Bamse, the world's strongest bear!), and then we have comics for adult readers (Galago, etc., Kronblom, etc.) - and very little in between. That space used to be filled by translated manga (Swedish publishers released One Piece, Naruto and Dragonball, as well as a bunch of others), but the manga-boom has long since collapsed and the space they occupied in the market is now a vacuum. We're losing readers in that void, and that's bad. I'm not saying it's the same in other countries (I know the American market has stuff like Raina Teigelmeier, which is great!) but we can't just expect manga to fill that gap everywhere. We need homegrown stuff as well - because, again, manga comes out of a different cultural context and visual language than the readers might be used to.

studiomik 2015-05-14 08:12:30 UTC #20

Thanks! Great to see all this response everybody. And we are all on the same page. That's awesome!

It was mentioned but what i wanted to add is;

We are single artists. I mean. Most of the time we're not a band. Nor a team of directors, actors, cameramen, producers and so on. A team of people can motivate each other, inspire each one of the team, making it more likely to succeed.

But a comic creator often works alone.

Has to learn to draw, learn to act, learn about camera angles, etc. And that's not all, he has to produce it, market it and even more important; has to keep digging' to find motivation and the drive to learn all of these things. A comic creator has to believe and motivate himself. It takes a lot of personal dedication! And it takes balls to throw your most personal home-made stuff out there. The world can be a harsh and cruel place to start this adventure...

All these things can be easily overlook by people who "just see a picture for kids".

Guess i'm saying; comic creators are all awesome and wonderfully weird in their own special way!

So, now that we established the problems, let me turn the question around:
HOW CAN WE GET COMICS TO BE AS BIG AS MOVIES ?