Nov 2020
18 / 35
Nov 2020
Jan 2021
UrMom
Nov '20

I can't be classified as cis or het, but back when I thought I was BL was my jam because it was something different from all the het shit in mainstream media. I was so sick of seeing the same thing over and over again, when my friend introduced me to yaoi I was like "Woah! You can do that?!", and got kind of obsessed with it for a few years. Also I was a hormonal teenager, and seeing two pretty boys going at it was Le Hot because double penis. Also also it was a nice space to explore sexuality and gross misogynistic tropes without feeling objectified as a (at the time) chick.

At least that's how I saw it as a kid. As a "fully realized adult" I just read BL from time to time now because some of it is more tolerable than het romance.

shfra13
Nov '20

I might not be straight, but I'll answer in a view of a cis woman. I loved manga/anime when I was young, and I stumbled across BL in the form of a doujin (fanfic). I read BL manga, before I knew what is LGBT. I simply read it because it was "fun" and "unique" to see two men pining on each other. There was also a factor of "shoujo manga trash, yaoi manga great" mindset I had. Though, even then, I remember still pushing the heteronormativity in those BL's. The funny thing would be that I started understanding about (and later finding out my) sexuality because I read BL; because I thought "I definitely can't afford to be homophobic if I read gay romance." But, well, that's another story. Nowadays, though, I read BL mostly because I feel more comfortable reading gay romance over straight romance.

Sadistic_Senpai
Nov '20

I'm straight and asexual and have been reading from teenage to adulthood. Damn, I'm old!

So, I'm gonna talk from my perspective only. Well, I first knew about bl through yaoi mangas and anime. And when, by chance, I entered this world, it was, well, damn exciting. :smiley: lol It's like you just had a new cheesecake and you really liked it.
I'm one of those readers who likes to explore. That means from yaoi manga/animes, I started exploring more like Chinese ones, Korean, western, etc. And, different bl genres.

I see bl more from fictional POV. And I've certain preferences; one is I don't like reversible couples. I don't read straight romances or straight erotica because I find it boring and mainstream(and I'm not a fan of mainstream things). From a psychological pov, one of the reasons I think, I enjoy seeing a man dominating another man. * cough * It's a bit hard for me to explain. Also, my preferences for bl are...a bit different. I like to see authors breaking the boundaries. It's like many people like cheesecake but some prefer strawberry cheesecake, some blueberry etc. :sweat_smile:

disco_deewane
Nov '20

(Ok I'm a bisexual guy so I probs won't give the best answer)
TBH I think a lot of it is because of fetishization. Not saying that all women who read BL are fetishizing mlm relationships (though there is a shit ton of that) but some women who prefer to read queer stories are surrounded by a lot of lesbian stories created for the male gaze, so then they see queer shit designed for them, and they appreciate it.
Not saying that I necessarily am comfortable with women reading BL stories, but I understand why they look at it.
But of course, there's always the women who just like the uwu smol gay boios! and I could never understand why people think that way.

Mallory
Nov '20
3

I'll just say I'm straight (I do find women attractive, but not as often as men, and I am in a straight relationship). I'm not a huge romance reader in general, but I do read and write more occasional malexmale stuff (for my own (unpublished) writing it's about 50/50 split between straight or gay(both malexmale and femxfem), but for reading it's almost exclusively gay). There's a couple reasons for it.

The obvious one that other people have mentioned is that reading content that primarily engages with male characters means you have a soft guarantee to avoid misogynistic tropes and societal expectations placed on women. Some BL still makes sure to take a huge dump on women, but a lot of it actually doesn't (and sometimes the supporting female characters are actually interesting and fun in their own right, and they can just BE themselves since they're not in the story to make themselves attractive to these dudes).

The other reason is I just don't find the standard trappings of het romance attractive. I don't like aggressive men. I don't like men with handsome shovel jaws and 12-pack abs and a 10-year age difference and cooing offers to spoil his baby with his millionaire money and whatever other boring or borderline misogynistic/infantilizing things pass for marketable to straight women. Malexmale stuff tends to have a wider variety of male leads who have a broader emotional/character spectrum so while not all of it appeals to me, I know that there is stuff that does. Therefore, even though I know there is a sliver of het romance that would appeal to me (and I've seen and read it!), I usually just go for the malexmale stuff because it's a better guarantee of not wasting my time.

But, like... I don't read any of the BL stuff that's on tapas, for example. I think I'm subscribed to a couple sci-fi ones that have a gay undertone but they're not marketed as BL. Normally the BL label makes me skip over it immediately because I imagine the typical UWU GAY BOIS~ schlock. But if it's not BL and in the description I can see that it's leaning towards a romance, I'm much more likely to give something a try if the romance looks to be between two men (or two women, but that's more rare, and I will only read it if it's written by a woman).

gh0stcr33p
Nov '20

I’m a bi woman who doesn’t consume BL because it seems like it fetishizes gay men the way straight men who watch lesbian porn do. it seems kind of exploitative with the only purpose being to feed straight fujoshis, imo

BrambleberrySquirrel
Nov '20

Wow thanks so much for this outpouring of insight and feedback. This is all really helpful for getting outside of my own perspective to write a character who is a lot different from me. The main takeaways I see here are

  1. BL lets women read romance without the misogyny and social expectations placed on women in hetero romance

  2. Women who read BL like to see emotionally vulnerable men who normally aren’t featured in hetero romance

  3. Some women read BL as a way to explore fantasies of same sex relationships even if the people in the stories are the opposite sex from the reader.

  4. BL stories are seen as fluffy and safe because the male gaze isn’t directed towards a woman in these stories.

  5. Straight girls like guys so double the men is double the fun

I’ve got a bit more research to do for this character, but I feel like I’m a lot closer to understanding some of the different mindsets that exist within the hetero BL fandom. So thanks to everyone who has submitted their answers so far.

Several people talked about how BL exploits gay men and while this is true in many cases I think there is a bit more nuance to it. After all I’m a gay guy who reads and enjoys BL even if I’m not the main intended audience. I’m trying to explore some of the nuance within the genre and the fandom itself through this character. Kind of a meta commentary on the genre from within.

Crusoe
Nov '20

You're welcome and the best of luck with your story!

domisotto
Nov '20
1
BrambleberrySquirrel

They are, but usually not in a winner of girl’s affections roles, which to me quite often rings hollow. The whole ‘nice guy finishes last’ is quite often forced in the hetero romances, because, yes, the majority prefer the bad boys on the mend or powerful hulks who bend the world and the woman to their will.

My mom once told me a story about a slice of life drama aired in a movie theatre about a single mom who was in a toxic relationship with a married men, and after much drama, she finally is engaged to be married to an ideal nice guy.

So, in the ending, her previous lover cuts them off on the highway, acts like a ‘manly man’ by dragging her out of the car and she returns to him, and the whole movie theatre, at that point, in one voice yelled ‘YOU IDIOT!’

There is this disconnect between the hero-lover who sells books in hetero romances, and the guy women actually want to have relationships with. Try to put him on the cover or write a book about a softer, gentler relationship—and nobody would read it, at least not on the internet. But the same Internet would consume enormous amounts of ‘he rapes/beats her, she loves him!’

But the absence of that nice guy is felt... and BL lets you have the nice guy who is lucky in love. The second guy could be as bad or as powerful as it goes. While in a straight romance, bad girl-good boy pairings normally just don’t meet with success.

Like, Victor in a hetero romance would end up cast as a sleazy seducer to boost up the female hero’s confidence and have a drunken one night stand, that poor thing just couldn’t resist.

It’s a crazy paradox.

1 month later
dazaiswife
Jan '21

hi there!! i’m a little bit late on this but i thought my answer would still be helpful. i wouldn’t say i’m a straight woman rather bi, but i hope that doesn’t have an effect on my answer.

okay so first of all, i enjoy BLs because i live in a really conservative country, and seeing that mlm are presented as something let’s call it “beautiful” and normal always makes me happy. i know how hard it is for the people of lgbtq+ to come out here, so i’m always happy to see when lgbt isn’t presented as something disgusting and weird.

second of all (i think this is more important) when reading straight or lesbian manga i tend to put myself in the place of the woman in the relationship. now, that makes me think about how i would want the partner to treat her and makes me imagine myself in those situations. but when there are two man in the story, there’s no space for me to project my feelings onto the characters because they aren’t women, so it gives me the ability to enjoy the story and the plot more, rather then thinking about myself in those situations. and i’m usually much more satisfied with BL endings cause i don’t feel like i’m in the story, so i don’t have a certain way ending i expect, and i don’t have a certain way i expect my partner to treat me.

(BL also made me question my whole gender identity but that’s a whole another topic...)

i hope this was helpful and not too confusing!! have a nice day and take care! :slight_smile: <3

BrambleberrySquirrel
Jan '21

Thanks! This was a really good and nuanced answer that covered territory other responses hadn’t yet. I appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective.

Ordinaryaverageguy
Jan '21
domisotto

I'd be interested in looking at some of those. I always liked writers like Heinlein when they featured females in "competent" roles (meaning, knows how to do many things well).

SpavVy
Jan '21

I wouldn't say I'm a huge diehard BL fan but there are LGBT stories I genuinely liked despite being heteroromantic and asexual. For me, I'd say it's the thrill of forbidden love in some of these stories and hoping the characters will overcome their hardships and be themselves despite what society thinks. Like one of the posters here said I also feel that many of these stories have a more interesting dynamic overall and I'm tired of stories where the woman is saved by the man.

domisotto
Jan '21
2
Ordinaryaverageguy

I write stories like that, and it is difficult to find readership, because since the 90's, there is this odd notion that women should be strong in 'some other way' and overall, the Internet seems to prefer a romance with a passive and abused female lead with little agency or interests in life and small-time aspirations. Even in fantasy, you will recieve comments that they are 'tired' of females who fight or that it is 'historically inaccurate'. Internet doesn't blink at a myriad of stories about the manly men with abs.

Lol, I even received comment like that on a story where I specifically designed the main female not to be an outstanding fighter, in the middle of her losing a fight that opened the book. She also loved to embroider and actually resolved her quest in a 'different' way, by learning to accept responsibility and making connections to the noblewomen of the countryside and the capital providing a stepping stone to return (i.e. something that saved the historic Medici family after they had been kicked out of power in Florence).

Sorry for qq but it does bug me. On the upside, it makes me want to give a shot to GL.

Ordinaryaverageguy
Jan '21

Sounds a bit like, despite all the talk for years about breaking stereotypes & role models, people (at least people who read) are into "traditional" roles & cliches.

domisotto
Jan '21

It just turned around. In the nineties and early this century, the strong triumphant woman was the heroine of the day. You get Murphy, or Trinity... then the pendulum swung back to the boundaries of the Little-Woman-Borough. The harder we are hit economically, the more pressure there will be to portray women as 'strong but the other way'. It happened after the war, and it took a few decades for strong-as-in-strong women characters to emerge.

indagold
Jan '21
1

There's an older term for it but if I post it, i'd probably get banned lol but essentially it's straight chicks who would rather see two dudes than be squicked out by a chick with the dude she's attracted to. Plus the whole femme gay dudes are into fashion and makeup stereotype and them being into men makes it all the more alluring aka the "gay best friend".

I had a lit teacher who was like this but predated the whole yaoi thing. She """"researched"""" gay bars and gay erotica by hanging out in them back in the 70s. She was downright obsessed. It's definitely something thats been around before the internet or BL. I've even read reports giraffes do it too so it even transcends humans.

also I have 0 clue why this was flagged as innapropriate. Guys calm tf down.