You ever write yourself into a corner where you can't imagine your characters reasonably being able to resolve the conflict they're in?

[JoshRaed]

Because I'm fully in that right now. My characters have lost their stuff, their money, they're wearing stolen clothes, one of them has a broken leg and holes in his skin, another is visibly partly nonhuman in a world that is violently unaccepting of that, and they're being hunted by an evil corporation and an angry mob at the same time. I also wrote myself into a corner by establishing that one character is ravenously hungry to the point of passing out without a steady supply of food, and that both of them are dependent on blood for their diet, in a world that is basically just like the real world, and therefore has a similar amount of drinkable blood lying around.

But what about you people? What situations of this type have your characters gotten in?

[NickRowler]

In Crow's Worth, I did sort of write myself into a corner with the whole "arranged marriage" subplot.

My series was based off of something I came up with as a teenager, so I did have to edit and cut out a lot of stuff. I maybe should have taken out that part too. I tried to explain some of it but I feel like the whole subplot fell flat.

I sort of thought up a hundred ways I could have resolved it and I didn't really like any of them.

[BoomerZ]

This is why you need an outline and the story beats written before you start. There is a reason every writer gives that advice.

[Lensing]

I used to write and draw myself in corners, that was before I listened to advice
to work from big to small and not the other way around.

Not listening to this advice just leads to procrastination and not being able
to finish something structured which people will understand

There are easy ways to train that

[JoshRaed]

Funny story is I did have an outline it was just vague enough and bad enough to leave certain things unanswerable and certain parts of it didn't pan out as I initially thought of them, and I ended up with this.

[simonitropunk]

Yes and no... I do plan everything in advance but sometimes, I sure do get stuck but then, I somehow improvise. I mean, I did improvisation acting and that helps from time-to-time... just like life.

Even planned and outlined, you do find yourself going... hmm... would there be a better solution to this? It's like life, right? You plan something and on that day that comes, some bullshit happens and you're forced to figure something out on-the-fly and at times, it does work... it works better than I planned many months ago.

Imagine that you have planned on a road-trip to Disneyland and on your way, your tire goes POP!!! FLAT!!!! What are you gonna do in the middle-of-nowhere? This is when you have to improvise or something. Same thing can happen working/writing your stories... comics... whatever with your characters and so on.

[Lensing]

What was the outline?

[TheLemmaLlama]

Funny story is I did have an outline it was just vague enough and bad enough to leave certain things unanswerable and certain parts of it didn't pan out as I initially thought of them, and I ended up with this.

Yeah, I think a pure pantser can't truly write themself into a corner, because they have no predetermined destination in mind. Like who cares if their characters have lost their stuff, their money, they're wearing stolen clothes, one of them has a broken leg and holes in his skin, etc etc? Just extrapolate forward in whatever was is most logical for events to progress from that point, even if it ends with the protagonists failing; no-one said they have to succeed!

Conversely, it's a certain kind of plotter who's most vulnerable to this, as they actually have corners to write themselves into In particular, if your outline is just a series of events (A happens, then B, then C ... etc), that means you have to figure out a way to get from A to B.

The way to go, I feel, is to note the trajectory of your character's journey in your outline; not just the milestones. That way, you get all the 'writing yourself into a corner' done in the outline stage, where you can still drastically restructure your entire plot with reasonably little effort if needed

(I'm fortunate enough to naturally gravitate towards this since I naturally write on a 'broad strokes' level as if I'm describing/summarizing my story to a friend If it were more natural for me to write detailed prose when I'm in 'word vomit' mode, I'd probably just be a pantser XD)

[ralyash]

Yeah, I think it really depends on a number of factors. I do a mix of outlining and pantsing (controversial, I know XD). This is usually because my outlines /seem/ like they are logical and work at the time I'm writing them, but when I actually get to the content of those chapters, they no longer make sense and don't work. I have this problem mostly when it comes to character relationships and high-stakes plots/climaxes where sometimes you have to kind of... I don't often /want/ to compromise logic for the sake of the emotional highs, but that's ultimately what it ends up being in a lot of the cases (And this is actually human nature, to be honest, I'm just a member of the weird 15% that doesn't understand how people could choose emotions over logic. XD)

I say that, but I think the 'logic' portion of it is something you can solve by a couple of things:
1. Word Vomit yourself past the situation regardless of the logic; you can either follow the scenes out as best you can according to what the characters would do, OR you can throw in a MacGuffin that allows you to figure out what the next scene is. Either way, the goal isn't necessarily to /keep/ what you write, but to help give you insight that may be vital to finding the solution.
2. Take a break and walk away from it for a bit. (If you are working on NaNoWriMo, your ability to do this may vary.) 'Taking a break' does /not/ mean that you 'stop' doing or thinking about whatever it you are doing. Brains have the ability to think about things while you aren't actually thinking about them, so sometimes it's best to take a walk or a drive or a nap; play a game or watch TV for a little while. This gives your brain a chance to percolate at a more natural rate. Sometimes releasing the pressure is more effective than adding to it.

There are other options, such as skipping the scene and such, but these two are the ones I would recommend.

I recently had to find a reason for the contradiction that started to appear not only in my character's choices, but in the logic of the plot going forward. I sat there for days being like... well... if I follow what I have, then there is literally no tension and no reason for my characters to continue to stay together.
I took a break for a day and suddenly, out of the blue, I realized that the answer was in the text and setup all along--I'd just never thought about it in the that literally gave me the exact answer that I needed. It wasn't planned. It wasn't intentional. It was just there right in my own mechanics--I'd just been so focused on the path forward I didn't think to look back.

[WorldBreakerNovels]

Yes lol. I don't feel like a story needs a happy ending to be an ending. In fact, I thought the ending to infinity war was better than end game because it shows that the heroes can't always be the victors.

My characters don't always have happy endings. Sure, the majority do, but definitely not all.

[NickRowler]

I don’t think there is anything wrong with keeping your story open ended. That is sort of how a lot of long going series are formatted. And some even get canceled before reaching an ultimate conclusion.

I think maybe something to focus on instead is…

• Why are you writing this kind of story? What is the point? Are these situations helping flesh out your characters or themes?

• Have your story focus more on the journey instead of the destination. You could focus more on subplots or make your story episodic.

[YS_og]

I think it's great. I love a story that can show realistic events and the way a character deals with the results or consequences of the situation they got themselves in/involved in. I have had a few I used myself where in a lot of cases you get a superhero type of resolution but I instead kept it to where the MC had to lose and try to live to see the next sequence of events and learn from the experience. Sometimes you just lose in life, and I feel it's something great to have for people to relate to instead of constant escapism where MCs overcome all kinds of dilemmas with no reasonable way out.

Hopefully I didn't misread into the OP :')

[TheLemmaLlama]

I don't often /want/ to compromise logic for the sake of the emotional highs, but that's ultimately what it ends up being in a lot of the cases (And this is actually human nature, to be honest, I'm just a member of the weird 15% that doesn't understand how people could choose emotions over logic. XD)

For me, it's more like flawed character logic intrinsically undermines the emotional highs; in order for me to feel strongly for someone in a scene, I need to know the context and said context needs to make sense. I need to be reasonably convinced the characters are real people.

I literally can't 'compromise logic for the sake of the emotional highs' because without the logic, there are no emotional highs!

There are other options, such as skipping the scene and such, but these two are the ones I would recommend.

Based I always recommend these as well, and to an extent #2 comes with the territory for a comic writer who doesn't finish the script before starting to draw, like myself. Basically (the entire chunk of time between now and when my drawings catch up to a scene) is (time for my brain to crunch on those scenes in the background); I'm forced to leave my story to marinate in my head because drawing is so slow XD
I've already restructured the later arcs to make more sense a few times, because the solutions just came to me during that waiting period

[ralyash]

For me, it's more like flawed character logic intrinsically undermines the emotional highs; in order for me to feel strongly for someone in a scene, I need to know the context and said context needs to make sense. I need to be reasonably convinced the characters are real people.

I literally can't 'compromise logic for the sake of the emotional highs' because without the logic, there are no emotional highs!

I wonder if you find emotions logical themselves in this case? Because the part I struggle with is that emotions themselves are illogical, and therefore, for example, I see no reason for communication problems to exist in romance stories outside of tropes, for example, XD. (This is a false logic equation, as communication problems in relationships are 100% logical, especially in the moment--it's just that my brain still generally doesn't compute the sense of it XD. Oh, the trouble I have gotten myself into XD. As a writer, I've had to actually study psychology more in order to emulate it more effectively so that I can retain that tension.)

I am a vulcan. It's a problem. XD.

. Basically (the entire chunk of time between now and when my drawings catch up to a scene) is (time for my brain to crunch on those scenes in the background); I'm forced to leave my story to marinate in my head because drawing is so slow XD

Man, I used to love that about drawing before the carpel tunnel hit me hard. It's one reason I was so determined to draw chapter images. Drawing is an excellent way to cope with this sort of thing.

[TheLemmaLlama]

I wonder if you find emotions logical themselves in this case?

Basically, logic is how things connect to one another in a consistent way; it doesn't actually make much sense to say something is logical or illogical in isolation For instance, we might be tempted to say it's irrational to go out into the cold without a coat, but only if our goal is to stay alive and well XD

And you might say it's illogical to not care about freezing to death, but then what's the point of not-freezing to death, and so forth There's an infinite regress of whys and there's no One Rational Goal underneath it all, so we can only say goals are rational/irrational with respect to other goals

On a slightly different note, you might say something like 'it's irrational to feel scared to talk to the person if your goal is to communicate [information you have]'; but that's kind of like saying 'it's irrational to not have wings when your goal is to fly' XD Unlike walking out into the cold without a jacket, people don't choose to feel a certain emotion or not have wings

So for me, an emotional scene without consistent/logical depiction of emotions is kind of like a climactic action scene where the character solves some crucial problem by suddenly gaining deus-ex-machina flying powers out of nowhere without the narrative ever foreshadowing that as a possibility XD

[ralyash]

Ohhh I like you. I can have fun with you. XD
(Not in a creepy way, I promise XD.)

So your view on the logic of the situation would then be based on every characters/person's individual logic in the room rather than the situation, if I am reading correctly? (Though I haven't had my coffee yet lol.) And therefore the logic of the scene isn't so much dependent on the devices of any given scene, but how the characters react to what's in front of them?

It's both interesting and obvious, yet it actually takes a certain way of thinking and a lot of skill to orchestrate. (And understanding of people XD). I approve. XD.

[Milky_Yum]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[TheLemmaLlama]

So your view on the logic of the situation would then be based on every characters/person's individual logic in the room rather than the situation, if I am reading correctly? (Though I haven't had my coffee yet lol.) And therefore the logic of the scene isn't so much dependent on the devices of any given scene, but how the characters react to what's in front of them?

I mean, it depends on both (e.g. the flying example), but I do generally have more forgiveness for minor lapses in situational logic, if that's what you mean

Like for instance, in the Trails series, characters say "hell" all the time despite the equivalent of Hell in that world being called Gehenna, so it makes no logical sense for anyone to say "hell"; but you don't notice that unless you deliberately think about it, so it's fine.

Whereas bad character logic (e.g. someone is depicted as being very defensive of their mother, but then later doesn't get mad when their mother is insulted and we don't see any reason for it; we aren't shown how they've changed, it's not depicted as them being unaware or trying to control their anger, etc) is usually harder to ignore/more central to the scene (But if a piece of central situational logic is bad, that totally undermines the scene for me as well )

[smokesalty]

Yes, I have but the cool thing about writing is that ~anything~ can happen if you want it to. Obviously, the issue with that is execution.

I remember a really big corner I wrote myself into was the climax of my story. In short, we have a 10 year old boy who has to fight a grown 40 year old, 2 meter tall mosquito dude who can fucking fly. This child was also injured from a fight from the secondary villain too, like how was he genuinely gonna win? I can't pull a power of friendship in this case!

I remember being so stumped over this. I asked for any ideas on discord, and someone suggested "the main character cuts down a tree and it falls on the mosquito dude." THAT IS SO RIDICULOUS! (Love the person for trying, so lovely) But I did actually end up working out a solution. (No falling trees.)

Like when it comes to this kind of stuff, you gotta be willing to make big changes, world rule changes or find another solution to the problem.

Slight spoilers for my comic readers (this scene is like 5 years away from happening so whatever)

My solution was going. "Okay, so this scene takes place after a scene in the kitchen. There's an easy way for the MC to get a knife. He had good reason to bring it with him that I can establish. He is a character that wouldn't kill the villain, but he could absolutely use it for defense." And my solution was: He doesn't have to kill the villain to win. He just needs to injure him enough to run. If the wings get cut, the villain can't fly after him, and if the injury is painful enough it'll slow him down when running.

So I managed to make a scene where the main character could win against a character he was extremely outmatched by without making it ridiculous or out of character. Like my solutions are using the scenes I've set up previously, adding establishment and justifying what happens based on what I know about the characters.

But now that I'm working on writing a murder mystery, this is put on FUCKING HARD MODE. But it's okay, I'm taking on the challenge, and it's gonna be interesting to figure out to say the least.

[ShidoDraws]

I used the three act structure a lot back then but recently I noticed something I coincidentally had done with my current story that didn't feel like was a coincidence at all. And that is the 7 act structure, it's great for writing yourself into less corners and it keeps the story interesting. You still have the beginning, middle and end but in-between each act you have two mini ones.

It's a pretty interesting writing concept and I highly recommend trying this if you feel like you write yourself into corners at lot, at least I did back then.

I'd say right now I'm definitely past the beginning and second beginning act, I'll be illustrating my third beginning act after I resolve the current arc.