A point about webcomic accessibility

[Shanny8]

@furankuc4ld I remember Tower Records- used to buy a lot of CDs there; that's why I'm familiar with HMV as well.

And some people do say cola- just not many that I know.

[carloswebcomic]

On the topic as a whole, I agree on the principle. However, as with most things, it has to be weighed against if something is so true to the character that the character loses credibility if they used the neutral wording or if there is a genuine opportunity for education, which can be entertaining for all parties involved.

That's why I said it should be used on key plot points, not to strip slang and such out of a comic completely. I'm not talking about using neutral language ALL the time.
You don't even need to use neutral language if you're illustrating what you're talking about then.

[phen]

This is brilliant because I feel on impulse it's imperative to pick any kind of cultural reference from my comic. Removing branding has proven the only thing I failed at. Operating system software plays a background role, a theme for the characters and.. using the ubiquitous MAC VERSUS WINDOWS VERSUS LINUX treatment... possibly crosses the threshold here? I'm not so confident about presenting virtual/digital world in webcomics.

Webcomics. It's inherently a digital/virtual experience, right? But as part of a story, it dates itself almost immediately. GUI updates are particularly vexing in a webcomic that's supposed to be in the vague "present day". Man, even the cell phones have the potential to end up alienating readers. They were objects I completely avoided writing into stories when I was younger because it felt like an isolated chaos. Perhaps dating the comic (heh, not romantic, I swear) and being accessible are two different issues.

[TrialAndError]

Considering most comics take place in a fantasy world, patriotism would be a rarity these days

[carloswebcomic]

Considering most comics take place in a fantasy world, patriotism would be a rarity these days

Oh, you still get it here and there.
But like I said, it something to keep in mind IF you are interested in making your comic more accessible. If not, then that's fine.

[TrialAndError]

I absolutely agree with your points though. Great stories have relatable characters, so as long as you have that, you wouldn't need patriotism

[TACOBERTO]

Well a comic doesn't HAVE to rely on inclusivity.
If the intent is to reach a wide enough audience that spans in to international communities then I guess it could help to keep local references to a minimum.
But for the most part specificity and references to brands and colloquial language native to the setting the given comic takes place, gives the reader a sense of time and place, and makes it feel "real". You have to make the choice to be inclusive to as many people as possible and potentially sacrifice a lot of personal touches and concrete details. Or keep all that and potentially alienate a section of your audience. 9 times out of ten I'd choose the latter.
To your Wall-Mart example. You may not have them in your country but you understand the concept of a large chain grocery store right? With a little more clarity one can keep those details without there being such a wide disconnect.
Also in which comic did you see overzealous nationalism? They'd have to be either political cartoons or comics catered too overzealous nationalists.

I'm no authority though. My comic takes place in a completely fictional world so my opinion comes with a grain of salt

[carloswebcomic]

But for the most part specificity and references to brands and colloquial language native to the setting the given comic takes place, gives the reader a sense of time and place, and makes it feel "real". You have to make the choice to be inclusive to as many people as possible and potentially sacrifice a lot of personal touches and concrete details. Or keep all that and potentially alienate a section of your audience. 9 times out of ten I'd choose the latter.

Well, that's why I said that if you care to increase accessibility, these are points you might like to consider. If not, that's fine. Nowhere have I stated that these should be followed by everyone all the time.
I thought I had made that point clear.

[doctorglasgow]

Even beyond that, the webcomics that get passed around a LOT nowadays, (owlturd, gamercat, sarah's scribbles) are generally even more relate-able. They're usually more about general ideas or feelings that pretty much everyone can relate to. And clearly that does garner a lot of attention, but it's certainly not the right format for every comic.

It's definitely an interesting starting point for creating shareable content though.

[ToonDoctor]

This point of view advocated in this thread is the reverse of everything I have been taught about writing...

In one scene in my comic, set in the Southern US, I went out of my way to find the right terms used by locals there to make it as real as possible for characters from that area. Now, I am a Canadian and NOT from the Southern US. The terms I used for my characters' speeches are not terms that I use or that I was familiar with prior doing the research on local slang. But I took a lot of pride in doing the research to make the comic feel as authentic and using the very vernacular that I don't use.

This is how I was taught to write! Make the characters' voices as local and genuine as possible, even if that means that the reader does not understand every word.

Dear @carloswebcomic are you aware that you are advocating a practice that goes against what generations of creative writing instructors, authors and pros have been saying about fiction?

It feels like another one of those impulses to dumb down culture...

[mjmassey]

Agreeing with @ToonDoctor here in that sometimes using local slang can more firmly place a characters in their setting...or show how they don't fit into the setting.

In my comic, I'm dealing with a very international cast all gathered in one place, Rome. I have an Irish character who lapses back into English and speaks with a thicker accent. Also, I try to have the characters use turns of phrase or make reference to things that European teens would be familiar with, rather than American. One of the more common things is soccer/football: I had to be careful in one Christmas story to make sure they never said "soccer", they played a game of "Football" (I even poked fun at the difference in the next year's Christmas story).

Doing some research into local practices and phrases can make all the difference in authenticity! And gives the story a nice flavor.

[carloswebcomic]

But I took a lot of pride in doing the research to make the comic feel as authentic and using the very vernacular that I don't use.

And that's fine. If that's what you want, I'm not telling you to get rid of slang. If you're happy to have readers not understanding what you're writing, that's OK. That's your prerogative.
Again, my post is about a few points to consider IF you're concerned about accessibility. At no point have I stated that everyone should follow them. Hell, I'm not even talking about getting rid of slang altogether, but explaining key points.

Why do you keep pushing the point as if I'm forcing people to do this? I've explained this point multiple times.

[carloswebcomic]

Agreeing with @ToonDoctor here in that sometimes using local slang can more firmly place a characters in their setting...or show how they don't fit into the setting.

In my comic, I'm dealing with a very international cast all gathered in one place, Rome. I have an Irish character who lapses back into English and speaks with a thicker accent. Also, I try to have the characters use turns of phrase or make reference to things that European teens would be familiar with, rather than American. One of the more common things is soccer/football: I had to be careful in one Christmas story to make sure they never said "soccer", they played a game of "Football" (I even poked fun at the difference in the next year's Christmas story).

'Please, please, please, read the posts. I've have explained this point multiple times already and I'm starting to sound like a broken record.

[ToonDoctor]

Maybe because you do not understand what we are writing here either...

You create this false dichotomy as if if we use slang and other local expressions that therefore we do not care about making our comics accessible. This is simply untrue.

In works of fiction, there is always a tension between show and tell. What you are arguing above is pure tell. You are saying to creators, do not let your readers guess, tell them. Do not show them the context of terms they may not be familiar with; avoid them entirely. And if you do, you care about making your comic accessible. But if you don't. you obviously do not care about clear storytelling. And that premise, not matter how much you argue above that you are not dictating or painting the word black and white, is exactly what you are doing.

Fiction is way too nuanced and a fun playground to abide by the rules that you suggest. Are you telling me that Hemingway, Atwood, King, Updike did not care about making their work accessible and totally avoided complicated terms in all of their work?

Your position is not well thought of. It is well-meaning, but in practice, way too restrictive for anyone who wants to engage with modern literary works.

Here is an example of what I feel is important about accessibility and that can actually affect readers' understandings. When not too corny to have the characters introduce themselves with their names or address others by their names, especially in new scenes or ones where someone has not been seen for a while.

Why? Because, understanding the web comic format, I know that there are gaps and that readers may skip pages and not recall every character the way I do. So I need to reintroduce them once in a while. it is the same thing that film makers do when shooting an ensemble sequence. While they may focus on two speaking characters, from time to time, they will show reactions shots of the other people around, and even of the setting to remind us that we are in a mall, or an elevator and that they were two women in the elevator witnessing the exchange between the two main characters.

That is more important to help the reader follow the story than avoid using an unfamiliar term. They can search for a definition of an unfamiliar term but they will have more problems understanding the relationships of two characters that are interacting that we haven't seen in the last 20 pages of the comic, or in practice, in the last 20 weeks.

Now, this is an issue about accessibility that I care about, and again, the people who trained me about fiction writing put a lot of emphasis on this point rather than how I use vernacular terms.

[carloswebcomic]

@ToonDoctor Thank you!
Now I understand what you are saying. So far all I've been reading is people telling me how much they like slang, which as far as I'm concerned is fine.
I definitely see your point now and, yes, perhaps my point was not well throughout. I was simply sharing what has worked for me.

[TrialAndError]

I think the original post wasn't stating that using slang terminology for the ENTIRE comic is probably not a good idea. If it's a character trait, then that's fine. It builds a sense of uniqueness to that individual. But if every character now speaks like that, you're catering to a niche crowd.

Accentuating cultures, languages, changes in speech pattern, clothing and accessories, etc. to define someone isn't the problem. It's generalizing the idea to span across the entire body of work

[gearpunk]

Even just being in Canada I have trouble with some areas and it often times ruins a joke, I'm literally like 'am I missing something?' only to find out it [the joke] originates in Texas or something.

[velldonnabarb]

I very much agree with this! One should be mindful with the slang and cultural references.

But I have to call you out on this, Carlos: your post comes across as needlessly bitter. Yes, we get it. You don't give a flute where New Jersey is, or what Walmart and kool aid are, and you refuse to look it up. That's perfectly fine. But the fact that you had to highlight this and make your disdain and disinterest for those terms clear makes you sound resentful. Why?

You see, I don't always understand cultural references or slang. But I don't gripe about it. I don't say, "I couldn't care less." Because it's not that difficult for me to look them up online. I don't begrudge someone referencing a store that only appears in Britain or Japan or America. I may not be from those places but I like collecting information about other countries.

My point: I agree completely with your message but I feel that the way you worded your complaints ruined the neutral informational tone of the piece.

[SleepingPoppy]

I'm wondering what strange comic OP was reading where kool aid was a major plot point.

I'm going to guess it involved the mascot, Kool Aid Man, bursting through a wall saying "OH YEAH!" though. Which seems like it would be even funnier if you hadn't grown up with commercials of that happening, and there for had no idea what was going on.

Which isn't to say I don't get the point! Comic creators should do what is appropriate and relevant to their comic, but its a great thing to be aware of!

[SleepingPoppy]

So I am American, and this cracks me up, because I don't know anyone that says "washroom" over "bathroom". Washroom and restroom would be considered more polite, but everyone says bathroom. Even if there is no bath in the room (ie the bathrooms at a school/restaurant/gas station). I can think of a bunch of ways to refer to a bathroom, and none of them would result in me posting a reply to complain!

I would have also just assumed HMV was a place where you could get DVDs in your locale, too. That seems obvious from context. XD