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Mar 2017

-looks at tapastic home page-
-gigglesnorts-

I remember this one time I was browsing popular/upcoming comics, and one of the pages had icons that almost exclusively said BL. I'm not opposed to this of course, but it is very obvious that BL currently plays a factor in the chances of your comic gaining traction on the site. These types of icons are pretty clickbaity, but I can't blame em because your icon is the first thing potential readers see. You kind of have to make your comic as attractive as possible, hence why BL comics tend to be lots of suggestive faces. However, I think that my imagination would inherently take me somewhere worse if the icon was blurred xD

That's true! I think blurred icons would lead people to think that this site actually does peddle porn!

(and don't y'all gimme that "but doesn't it already?" quip. There was a recent crackdown on nsfw pages and a bunch of censors had to be put up. And like a year ago the complaint was all that was popular were gag-a-day slice-of-lifes, so maybe it's nice to see some things with a semblance of a long-term plot be popular?? ¯_(ツ)_/¯)

I got half way through the first paragraph and knew exactly which comic icon you were describing. There are a few others that are pretty questionable too, and not all of them are even BL. I don't care about the contents of comics themselves, but I definitely don't think it's appropriate for the front page. Just because you've cropped it at the shoulders, doesn't mean we can't all tell they're having sex.

I don't think censoring icons with mosaics/blurring is a good idea. I think they just need to use a different icon. Perhaps the thumbnail upload section should be accompanied by some clear guidelines on what kind of content is acceptable? If the staff can crack down on NSFW content in actual pages, surely they can do the same for the dodgy icons, which are far more visible anyway.

So, wait one moment while I get this straight. What exactly do you want to do? Obscure the icons of series that use nsfw material? Because you're ashamed of your own nascent sexuality? But it's just BL you're really concerned about, but really not just BL?

Umm... I think this thread is more than a little homophobic. Whether others agree or not is not is of no consequence. The terms of use are clear, and followed by the vast majority of creators here. Truth is in aggregate, not exception. And, frankly, this is starting to sound like banal evil. Ever read Hannah Arendt? You should.

I'll probably get hammered, but I don't think I can sit in a corner and allow some of my dear friends to be attacked without a word of defense, or even some random person I don't know who may be going through exactly what you went through as a youth. Consider the harm that you created, now consider the harm of what you're doing now simply as a comparative moral calculus. Were you wrong then, or wrong now? How wrong? How harmful? In your effort to protect, aren't you denying your loved ones the freedom and responsibilities to make choices on their own? Are they people to you, or just perfect little versions of yourself?

I am a parent. I worry, of course, but I don't pursue impurity to stamp it out. I teach my son to make good choices. Let me say that again, I teach the ones I love to make good choices, and if they fail, then love them enough to respect their choices and let them learn from them. Maybe I wasn't clear. I respect them enough to respect their choices, their progression, and their failures.

Someone did the same for you.

I would rather my son get all hot and bothered about gay love than the violence porn that qualifies for American TV. He's not even gay. Want to know how I know? Because I respect him enough to let him make his own selections with guidance, and deal with the consequences of his actions. There's a key word in there. Guidance. Aggressive sexual expressions are expressly prohibited by the terms of service and socially unacceptable enough to draw notice from the staff.

So, yes. This is a witchhunt. Congratulations.

The issue here is that there are blatantly suggestive icons of several series out there. I don't mean suggestive as in a dude kissing another dude on the cheek, I mean suggestive as in two dudes sweaty and naked with a trail of spit between their mouths and a deep red blush, or a naked chick making an o face. The issue isn't that BL series are doing this, the issue is that the blatant explicit sexuality is very discomforting for many people.

What people are saying is that they don't want to look at cropped porn images on the front page. It's not that people are ashamed of their sexuality, it's that people don't want to see pseudo-porn while looking for SFW comics.

If that were all this is, there is an established process for dealing with content that violates the terms of service. By bringing it here, it becomes a community and social issue that attacks a specific subgroup without allowing them to be represented and defended. By not using specific and supportable examples, and bringing it to the community at large, it implies a widespread phenomenon that insinuates a larger cancer on the community. This is an invitation to ostracization of a nebulous, mostly nonexistent evil.

If it violates the terms of service, address the issue by contacting the staff in the way provided to maintain the content and character of Tapastic. If it does not violate the terms of service learn to accept that the opinions and choices of others may be different from your own.

Tapastic is by no means pornographic. To say this is more than silly. It is an atrocity of language.

Ever read The World According to Garp? I recommend it.

Eh, I'd say I'm part of that sub-group (since I do have a mlm series with nsfw scenes here and there), but I do like to keep my thumbnails classy despite the series content. I'm aware people of all ages and backgrounds come to this site, so I wouldn't want to alienate them from looking around the popular section with a hot and heavy thumbnail even if they'll never click on my series.

And " Tapastic ALLOWS mature content featuring nudity, non-graphic sex, extreme violence, and strong language as long as it is behind our NSFW filter. "* But since you can't filter thumbnails exactly, I would think it's in good taste to keep thumbnails PG.

I could have sworn I saw somewhere that staff posted something about no nudity at all in thumbnails, as well as no strong swear words in titles, but I can't for the life of me remember where I saw it.

*from https://tapastic.com/policies/content1

I agree that icons can get really out of hand, and it's not just BL that does this.

I will NOT be posting examples, for the same reason I'm pretty sure no one else is posting examples. Because no one here wants to start a witch hunt. They just want to express that it is a problem that's going on with multiple series that is being ignored. And yes, I have mentioned it to staff or flags comics for it before while being labelled as a 'soccer mom' by people that found out I did. Whatever that insult means.

A lot of the icons in question tend to be cropped sex scenes, and there are some that I have run into that was very clearly a sex scene with 18+ tag over the genitalia. Also a good amount that are just sexy butts, faces full of fluids, or characters making organism faces. So yeah, at that point I understand the issue. You can go ahead and have that in your comics (as long as it applies to tapastic's rules on sex scenes) but please be a little more tasteful when it comes to making your comic icons.

It's just really distasteful because it makes the website come off as a porn site. Depending on how many are on the front page it gets little awkward when trying to introduce people to the website while trying to convince them it's not a porn site.

Edit: I'd also like to note that I'm not attacking or out to get all the comics that do this. I'm a regular reader of some series that do this. I just think it shouldn't be on the icon.

Exactly. The terms are clear. (I didn't make this clear. There terms state behind the NSFW filter, and the icon is not behind an NSFW filter) There is an established protocol for dealing with precisely this situation. The fact that it isn't being dealt with that way but this way suggests something sinister, particularly since we know that the staff have recently made the terms abundantly clear. So, what motive now exists, as changing the content through established, and agreed upon means through staff enforcement of the terms of service isn't the goal? That goal is easily attained.

What is the goal of this thread?

I think the goal is to debate this issue and bring it moderators WITHOUT attacking or flagging the individual series. Because in these artists defence, tapastic needs to be more clear on what is appropriate, it's really not fair for fans to have to flag the comics they are reading or for creators to be flagged because tapastic doesn't have guidelines to follow in regards to series icons or is unclear.

Cause yeah, it sucks to flag a good comic you've been reading for a while because their new series icon is cropped porn when everything else about it is following the guidelines (albeit sometimes borderline).

Quoted from Terms of Service

https://tapastic.com/policies/content5

"Adult Material: Tapastic ALLOWS mature content featuring nudity, non-graphic sex, extreme violence, and strong language as long as it is behind our NSFW filter. "

As the material in question does not exist behind an NSFW filter, it is not allowed. The statement seems pretty clear to me.

And, unfair or not, one's responsibilities as a reader and creator are pretty clear. If it makes you uncomfortable and violates the terms of service, report it. A report isn't a sentence. It's a request for an investigation. Just as a sports or entertainment icon shouldn't be immune to the law, neither should a popular creator.

This isn't a debate about what's allowed. What's allowed is established.

Im actually laughing bcos even though i didn't mention any comic names (and ive been here since 2010 hun, this isnt about a SINGLE comic or only bl. I used bl as an example bcos its the most proeminent one lmao) you're accusing me of starting a witchhunt on some... friend... of yours?

Also congrats for calling a gay n trans person homophobic id send you clapping emojis but i'm not in the mood!! While everyone in the thread is expressing discomfort and trying to find a way for nsfw content not to be on our faces and blatantly showcased for children, youre trying to whiteknight someone that wasn't even mentioned. Dont try to start a fight, no one else did.

And Phillis Schlafly can't be misogynistic because she's a woman? Behavior is separate from identity.

Great, you've been here forever. Great, you have high social status inside the niche. Doesn't that make it more important to consider the consequences of your actions? Because you make it ok with your complaints, others will do the same. If you have a problem with a particular series that's violating the rules, report them. Bringing those problems here just says to me that you're asking for people to support your own sense of moral duty that doesn't actually require you to do anything. It doesn't include the actual duty of being responsible for the content you consume by following the reporting guidelines.

You're stirring shit. Pointlessly. Being angry at me for calling you out on your crap is as effective as breaking a mirror.

And don't patronize me. Ever. No, come to think of it. Underestimate me. Please.

Ooookay looks like it's time for us all to remember the first rule of the Tapastic Forum2s:

  1. There's Never a Wrong Time to be Polite
    Always be courteous to your fellow Tapastic readers and creators. Don't forget that there is a real person behind every post, who, just like you, wants to be treated with respect and tolerance. Keep your cool even in the most heated discussions. Above all else, I want everyone to feel safe and welcomed in our forums. Any behavior that threatens the culture we've all helped to build will not be tolerated.

I'm not going to close the thread because I feel like discussing people's feelings on this issue is enough of a purpose for the thread. We have plenty of threads on the forum that are just discussions and not direct calls to action, so I don't think this is 'witch hunt' or an attack on anyone especially since no one has mentioned any names or posted reference images.

I will say that if there's an icon that makes you uncomfortable, you should feel free to report it or just send the staff an email about it. The NSFW guidelines can be a little loosey-goosey sometimes because that sort of thing is subjective, but only the staff can really decide what crosses that line as far as the site goes.

Honestly, even if I were to regard the way this thread comes across as unintentional harm, it's still toxic. That said, I don't believe it was accidental or incidental in the slightest. I agree completely with @digitalvalium1 on the issue: if there's a problematic icon, hey, idea! Let staff know, since apparently they're really invested in censorship lately.

BL works are currently, for whatever reason, a polarizing issue on the forums. Censorship, perhaps more understandably, is also a hot issue. Bringing them up, especially in a way that seems to be primarily to unite people against others, whether you name specific names or not, is at best what we would call SKY when I worked in Japan. That means Super Kuuki Yomenai, or "super cannot read the atmosphere", clueless as to the tone of the conversation of a group of people and what might be a bad topic to bring up.

Nudity is not porn. Censored nudity is certainly not porn. Kisses are not porn. And it speaks more on the viewer whose imagination is directly to blame for what they take from a tiny image featuring a small amount of censored nudity. It's an icon, 300x300. If you can manage to get much at all in that space, then congratulations because it's not exactly conducive to detail. The icon is how authors can advertise their comics and catch eyes, which is important since Tapastic's genre system is abysmal and the site overall is not particularly friendly to discovery of new series. In any case, I frankly would rather an author be honest about the points of appeal of their series than to mislead a potential reader.

It's not reasonable or innocuous to attempt to galvanize people for censorship, and to be honest the original post here reads as insanely condescending and insulting. You don't exactly have to reach to feel the mocking tone and derisive laughter, especially since it's written into the post. Using polarizing language like accusing someone of "harming" others -- with a tiny icon! -- is also far from innocent.

If you don't want your siblings to see the site, there's a simple solution: don't introduce them to the site. You can't control every aspect of another person's life, though, and it might actually be better to, as @digitalvalium1 also pointed out, take a more active interest in their lives. It's far better to explain things than it is to simply try to hide it from them and constantly try to micromanage what they see and don't see. And since NSFW work is allowed on Tapastic, it's certainly irrelevant to the site that you don't like certain types of content or think the site is "friendly" to younger audiences. This is not an all-ages site. Adults shouldn't have to feel obligated to hide or to dumb down every single aspect of their lives and interests, just because someone who made the choice to have a child doesn't want to actually do their job as a parent.

All aspects of the world are not going to be kid-friendly or the problematic "family-friendly", and they shouldn't be. There are plenty of spaces made specifically for younger audiences. Adult-friendly audiences are far fewer in number and typically face no end of aggro from people who seem simply to resent that they exist at all.

Please, if we could, lay off complaining about BL, especially if -- as was claimed -- that wasn't the intention. I'd also appreciate laying off the playing administrator by people who aren't. This is just stirring up people, and not harmlessly. If any of you were unfortunate enough to be at Y!Gallery, I don't even have to go into detail about why it's a terrible idea to do things like this. It just turns people against each other and fosters the exact opposite of a healthy community.

If this post came off as simply a 'lets shit on BL fest' then i apologize, because that was really not my intention. I usually try to type my threads casually because i'm not a formal person, and ive discovered on the internet, being overly formal is sometimes seen as scary (you can check my other threads, i'm not trying to mock, but as this is an awkward and subjective issue, i'm trying to make it less awkward and more light lol)

Id go and flag any icons that me, and presumably at least 1% of the rest of the website find inappropriate, but i'm not a mod. I'm not part of the staff, and actively going out and seeking every single icon that looks a bit too steamy defeats the whole purpose of the thread. In doing so, i would actively START a witchhunt myself. Hansel & gretel witchhunters style, because we all kinda agree that movie wasnt good and this witchhunt would be even shittier.

What I'm proposing on the thread is that series icons, at least the ones that are constantly on the front page of tapastic, aren't as sexual. Yes, for the motives i mentioned about my family & friends, but also for the discomfort many others on this very thread- many adults, too- have about the issue. I dont want to wipe off sexual content of tapastic bc hey this is the internet, there is porn on the internet, ive seeked porn in the internet before— but tapastic is marketed as all ages and id at least hope i'm not contantly shown nsfw when logging in, or have to be watching every second a younger sibling is using the website :/

noah fence but im also lgbt/bisexual and even i have a problem with those oversexual/suggestive icons my dude. it doesn't really matter what the genders of the characters are to me, i'd just like to not see messy suggestive icons on the front page of the site. on top of being clickbaity it's not something that some people would like to see. it's not some anti lgbt statement, i'd have the same problem if it was a straight couple depicted too. and tbh it kind of makes the comics look like they're just fanservice rather than something with a story, which i'm sure the authors wouldn't want :'v. like that whole "sex sells" kind of deal.

Idk if it's a good idea, but If you're uncomfortable with the icon of a series, you could tell the artist in a private message, right?.
I mean, maybe they didn't know that people would be bothered by their icon, or haven't read the rules (SHAME, but I know a lot of people don't) Because I know I would be hella sad if people were to report me without telling me why.

And if they don't respond/ or say that they don't want to change it, try asking the staff if they could to do something about it.

I have to admit I don't really like the frontpage these days either, it looks a bit too NSFW-ish for my taste. (I also think it's a bit messy with all those letters in icons) But the biggest problem for me is that my friends were freaking "kinkshaming" me when I had just the frontpage opened... I had to explain that it were just thumbnails of comics I don't even follow, and that I'm not responsible for what is popular joy

The few times I contacted artists about it, the general response was "A bunch of other comics on the site do it so it's fine." or "Why are you only harassing me about this when everyone else does it????" Even with my friends that I know that do it it's "Kura you're worried over nothing, clearly tapastic doesn't give a shit look at the front page." Many will even point out the icon in my own comic "WELL WHAT ABOUT THAT????" even though it's not supposed to be sexually suggestive at all nor is it a cropped sex scene, it's just two guys without shirts, the fact that they automatically assume or jump on that to say it's just as sexual as their cropped icon of a girls face covered in fluids, or a guy making an organism face, or a sex scene with an 18+ bubble strategically places over the genitalia or penetration point in itself disgusting, but that's a whole other debate that does not belong in this thread.

It's something I think that would be better if the site itself addressed instead of leaving it to a 'moderated by the community' as they have been. I think staff addressing the issue themselves would be better than community members hunting down comics with questionable icons and flagging them (because then that would be a witch hunt) especially IF indeed tapastic itself is fine with these icons like many artists using them assume. Right now because of the amount of them and the fact that popular series use them just fine, we can only assume that tapastic is fine with them, which would make flagging these series for their icons IF tapastic is indeed fine with them, not only pointless but harassment.

Censoring, blurring or removing NSFW comics is not the answer and no one is out to do that, it's just the suggestive icons that have been popping up and starting to becoming more common that people are seeing as an issue, As @gateofselidor suggested, tapastic putting clear upload guidelines by thumbnail upload section would be perfectly reasonable and make things more clear for everyone involved.

To be fair this is not the first time tapastic has been wishy washy with their guidelines. For example, the 'non-graphic sex' rule only applies to comics, not their novels.

i'm just gonna quote your reply a thousand times because so far i think its the best approach here. i think what we really need is an update on the guidelines for comic icons and comics themselves, because we dont have the right nor the power to do it, as the first quote exemplifies VERY well! and of course moderating ALL the icons of ALL comics sounds like a mad job, so maybe they could look over all comics marked as nsfw. (that still seems like a huge mission to me but staff is staff) and tbh, even if that isnt done, id appreciate if they just took care of the ones constantly in the front page, because it's the front page. the thing that has been repeated the most is 'god i'm ashamed of opening the front page of tapas in public sometimes' and that's a huge deal for a website that wants to be all-ages or as quoted many times in many articles, the Youtube of comics. (but god forbid youtube's restriction mode, that's an example of nsfw filters done WRONG.)