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Jul 2020

I get that and there are more imaginative words than brown. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with someone saying someone blushes or is flustered and and turns red as a tomato. The articles references aren’t talking about that. But calling someone a tomato or a tomato colored person is weird. And there’s always a more imaginative way to say something

No problem. I want to keep this on the side or educational rather than a dumpster fire. That’s why I provided links that can be resourceful. I may need to bookmark them myself

lol sounds like social justice bull to me, so i would disregard it, its probably some woke white kid that wrote it XD

I also find it funny that describing someone as food is demeaning :thinking: do people not respect food? It helps you live! millennials! It’s their fault for only respecting green people with their damn Avocados! 🥑

I think the issue with using food to describe skin color is that it often comes up as sexualizing, which often doesnt fit a story character.

Example: Describing an imposing and tough military general as a Mocha-Chocolate will lead to the wrong impresion of what kind of character you are trying to convey.

Maybe it works in some erotic context if well excecuted, but otherwise....... it often comes of as cheesy.

If people wanna use food analogies, is up to them, but if they wanna do it well, they need to figure out when this trope works.

I think it's ok, as long as you don't make fun of the person or disrespect said individual.

Unfortunately, as of today, we have to worry about every little thing that could be deemed as offensive and overall politically incorrect. Sometimes we don't mean to offend anyone but it still passes off as bad.

In the end, it's not good to overthink every little word or scene you do just because it could potentially make some people angry. It's right to question yourself in order to grow, but you shouldn't worry too much. I'm afraid of controversy as well, but I try as much as I can to avoid it.

Always be polite and respectful to others and people will know who you really are :grin:

This is why context is so important! :blush: better to judge it on an individual level then say “you can’t do this anymore cause we said so.”

What if it’s a good story where the person relates everyone to food? That’s how they de stress!

Sometimes you do want that slightly erotic connection so that the audience KNOWS “oh! That’s the love interest” :wink:

Sometimes tropes and plataudes exisit for the very reason that everyone can catch on to what’s going on

With describing a person as having "chocolate" skin, does anyone else think of like... the texture first rather than the color? Or am I weird? :joy:

I get like "milky white" or "chestnut brown" but "chocolate" just seems weird. Especially since chocolate can come in all different colors.

Well, I would never say a "so and so" color person, I refer specifically to the skin. I posted it earlier here, but I'll give some descriptions below of characters in my most recent novel, which focuses on four teenagers who become superheroes of sorts:

Emmett Haldeman was a couple inches taller than Mallory, and was actually in fairly decent shape. His chocolate skin flowed taut over his muscular physique, which displayed his prominent shoulders and chiseled jaw. His eyes were hazel but took on a golden tone in direct sunlight, and his black hair was pulled back into short cornrows. He had spent a few years in sports after his father – United States Air Force Major General John Haldeman – had pressured him into athletics, but eventually he was allowed to pursue science as he desired.

Sully MacFarley, on the other hand, barely stood five and a half feet and was quite portly. He was covered in freckles and red body hair, sporting a hipster-style pompadour that really brought out the ginger in him. His eyes were a bright emerald green and he wore thick black-framed glasses that sat atop a large, bubble nose. His father Gerald was a Detective as well and partners with Nathaniel – that was actually how the two boys met, back when their fathers were young patrol officers on the same beat. It was the following year at school where Emmett had joined their 'adventuring party,' as they called it.

A few of the other interns were waiting outside, including Mallory’s crush – Selena Azar, who was smiling and talking with a few of the girls. Her makeup accented her puppydog brown eyes brilliantly, her long dark hair cascading in waves halfway down her back. Her skin was a beautiful shade of mocha, her frame petite yet curvy, and a cute little button nose. She wore a pair of black jeans and a long AC/DC shirt with the sleeves rolled up to her elbows, and her bag strapped over her shoulder. She looked up and smiled as she saw the three boys approaching.

I'll assume that out of this trio, Sully isn't a POC. I can tell by the name, freckles and ginger hair. The "problem" is that out of all these descriptions, only Emmett and Selena have their skin color referred to as chocolate and mocha, respectively. It kind of perpetuates that white is the default race when it comes to characters because you effectively got across that he was white without saying so. The other descriptors you used for the other two are done well, I feel like they can do without the food references. And if all else fails (in Emmett's case), there's nothing wrong with just saying he's black

Yeah, Sully's ethnicity was made pretty clear with the reference to freckles, red body hair, and that he was a ginger, but I do see your point. Perhaps I should put more thought into descriptors moving forward.

I didn't include the description for the main protagonist, Mallory, because it was a bit longer, but I'll share it below along with a back and forth he has with his father about combating police brutality and racial profiling:

“Huh, what?” Mallory said as he jumped up, confused. He then noticed his alarm going off, the clock on his nightstand flashing 6:30. He sighed as he slammed the button to turn it off, and then pulled himself from bed. He was wearing a pair of black Batman boxers and a tan Firefly t-shirt, wrinkled from his tossing and turning, hanging loose on his thin, scrawny frame. He stood at nearly six feet and three inches, but he had been underweight his entire life, leaving him looking awkward and lanky.

As he walked through his messy room, he ignored the comic books, textbooks, drawings, pens, markers, and protein bar wrappers strewn about. His father had asked him repeatedly to clean the pigsty up, but he had been so busy with his new internship that he had let it get a bit out of hand. He slipped on a pair of black-framed glasses and headed down the hall to the bathroom, relieving himself and then looking into the mirror as he washed his hands. His dark hair cascaded down over his bony shoulders, framing his pale, zit-covered face. He looked into the reflection of his deep brown eyes behind his glasses, hiding a mind with a wealth of knowledge not common among other sixteen-year-olds.

“You’re gonna do it today,” he said confidently to his reflection. He smiled. “You’re gonna ask Selena out. And if she says no, it won’t be the end of the world. She is under no obligation to say yes, but I gotta have hope. I just have to—” Suddenly there was a knock on the bathroom door.

“Are you talking to yourself again, Mal?”

“Of course, Pops!” he replied with a laugh. “It’s the only way I can have any intelligent conversation around here!”

“Baha!” Nathaniel laughed from the other side of the door as he walked away. “You little shit!”

Soon Mallory had showered, brushed his teeth, combed his hair, and dressed in a pair of blue jeans and a black Nightwish shirt. He pocketed his wallet, keys, and smartphone and slipped his black messenger bag over his shoulder, which contained a laptop, a tablet, and other accessories. Most of his things he had purchased himself with funds gathered from various tech-related odd-jobs around town, from computer repair to web design to light coding, which he had been researching independently since he was eleven.

He headed out into the kitchen, where his father was finishing up a breakfast skillet dish made of potatoes, peppers, onions, and mushrooms. It was, of course, a vegan meal, part of a cruelty-free diet they had adopted the previous year.

“Smells good, Pops,” Mallory said as he sat down, placing his bag on the floor next to his chair.

“Reserve judgment until you taste it,” Nathaniel added with a laugh. “I added that new seasoning from Herbal Emmington.”

The father and son sat and ate their meal together, both looking similar in many ways. They were almost the same height and their eyes and hair color were nearly identical, though Nathaniel’s was short and slicked back and he sported a short beard. He also had decent muscle mass compared to his son, wrapped nicely in a dark suit and tie with a badge clipped to his belt.

“You’re more formal than usual,” Mallory pointed out through a mouthful of food. “Another day in court?”

“Yeah, I have to testify for the prosecutor in a case I was working on,” he replied.

“Another corrupt officer?”

“Yep,” the father confirmed. “The last few years have really brought a lot of the problems we had in the police force to the surface. As we pull back the veil to try and make the right changes for a brighter and safer future, some officers still cling to the old ways and find themselves on the wrong side of the new laws. It’s never easy having to take down a fellow badge, but it’s a necessary step to heal the damage caused by years of enabling police brutality and racial profiling.”

“I’m glad you’re one of the good ones, Pops,” the son said with a smile. “Though you shouldn’t feel guilty about going after them. If they are trying to revive the hateful, bigoted ways of the past, they dishonor the badge and thus are not worthy of it to begin with.”

“An astute observation, Mallory,” Nathaniel replied, grinning. “I’m proud of the man you’re becoming. I only wish your mother could be here to see it. Our little boy, astounding people with his incredible mind. I wish I could go back to when you won your first Science Fair all those years ago and tell her that one day you’d be accepted as an intern at Qaarn Labs. Even then, that facility was known as state-of-the-art.”

“Stop, you’re gonna make me cry,” the boy said with a chuckle. The two joked around as they finished breakfast and cleaned up. Then they were out the door. They slipped into Nathaniel’s black Prius, which he had purchased to replace his old Jeep the year before as part of their move to a healthier lifestyle for both themselves and the environment. They drove for a few minutes and then pulled up next to Holladay Park, a large wooded plot adorned with statues and sculptures along cement walking paths. Two fellow teenagers sitting on a bench waved when they noticed the vehicle.

I don't want to guess and be wrong :see_no_evil: I get dark hair and dark eyes but it could go either way

His skin tone was made clear in the line, "pale, zit covered face," but again, I do see your point.

Oh....my mind skipped over that word. So that's on me.

Edit to add: I went back and read it, i see it now

But you still brought up a valid point. It was too easy to overlook, whereas for the others I made it easier to notice.

I'll say I automatically assumed white. Then I noticed your descriptions of his hair and his dad's hair so those were more clues. But yea, you can probably do the same with your non white characters and describe their hair, eye color, hairstyle, etc if you just don't want to risk it coming off as...off.

For my story it's a little different because for at least the first fourth of the story my character has a limited vocabulary so he has no choice but to use browns to describe things or use what's in his surroundings. I was editing today and noticed he referred to someone as just brown and opted to take it out due to this thread. As the story progresses he'll improve of course.

May I suggest perhaps different stones and metals? Dark Bronze that seems to shimmer with heat is how I typically describe the skintone of my MC and for her love interest I use porcelain with a dusting of peach (thus mixing a little food in there).