Apparently, Using Food to Describe Skin Tone is Racist?

[Inspector_Spinda]

It's kind of like the N word. People who aren't Black shouldn't use it despite its prevalent usage within the Black community.

Like, as an Asian person I sometimes joke with my white spouse and ask him if he ever had "yellow fever" (he hasn't, btw). It's that intimacy and knowledge between him and I that lets me feel comfortable enough to joke around with the term.But if a stranger randomly told me they have 'yellow fever', I would immediately get creeped out and run because to me it would seem that they have a fetishistic view of Asians and are ignorant enough to use the term so casually.

it's like calling people a bitch. you can ball your best friend a bitch, but not a stranger.

[thedude3445]

Using food to describe people's skin tone at all is weird and cliched. I would avoid it in most circumstances regardless of how it makes people feel in a racial context. Describing people as food comes off as.... Odd.... You aren't supposed to eat people...

Anyway there are a gazillion ways to describe skin tone that don't involve food, so avoiding that will help improve your writing abilities.

[Kiweevil]

Y'all are welcome to call me a marshmallow any day of the week

[Random_Guy]

Okay, marshmallow.

[elyss]

It can be gross to use food to describe skin. Growing up, people compare your skin to food and how much they want to eat it, which is beyond repulsive. It comes off as fetisization. "Can you be my cocao queen?" or "My mocha goddess" Both are gross and it's your job as a creator to recognize when it makes sense to describe someone's complexion as a food. Honestly I've never seen anyone do it right. Doing it more often then not makes me roll my eyes or pull out entirely depending on the degree of it.

Not racist, but is often gross to encounter. I won't say it's easy to find alternatives but also why not just say the skin is dark and the skin is light? I gain nothing as a reader when an author tries to deep dive into the eccentricities of someone's skin color.

[Kiweevil]

That video makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. I thought this was some sort of distant nightmare of mine, turns out it was just a repressed memory. Shame on you.

[DasIstWunderblyat]

To a cannibal people are food anyway. Having one describing people's skin tone as food won't be far fetched.

[Kiweevil]

I love the insinuation here that people who write out foods in comparison to skin tones are just closeted cannibals, fantasizing about different flavors of human.

[Aims]

Well, this took an unexpected turn...

[IndigoShirtProd]

Really? This is exactly where I thought this conversation was going.

[indagold]

I think my joke went over your head because I was essentially implying this sounds like something from a shitty porno. I don't know how you construed this as me saying this was fine lmfao.

[NickRowler]

This thread reminds me of this and the idea someone calls people wheat and toast.

[JWZagst]

I've always used food for certain skin tones, and usually no one finds it offensive. The key I think is in how you word it. For instance, in my most recent novel, I described a person of color as: His chocolate skin flowed taut over his muscular physique, which displayed his prominent shoulders and chiseled jaw. His eyes were hazel but took on a golden tone in direct sunlight, and his black hair was pulled back into short cornrows.

[joannekwan]

Eh, it's hard to tell tone via just text. If I wasn't explaining to you, then I was explaining to anyone else reading who might have missed the joke and thought it was a valid counterpoint.

[DeleteThisAccountFag]

That was quite an enlightenment article. I feel kind of bad though, even though I never actually used food to describe skin color, I did actually named every major female lead after a sauce or spread. I thought it would be a fun easter egg for people who discovered it, but... I'm not sure now.

But still, one thing I hate about this and other articles of the same ilk is white shaming, particularly this line:

When writing about a character of colour (ESPECIALLY if you’re a white author)

Is this really necessary? To point out white people like that? Isn't that racist in itself? Because I surely see it as being racist, yet people get away with it as if this is acceptable (maybe it is? I sure hope not). Imagine you spin it around and say "ESPECIALLY if you are Hispanic". I used that example as I am Hispanic and yes, that would anger me if I read that, but I find it equally appalling to be used on anyone of any skin color or any other trait. It's just sounds hypocritical to have them proclaim how racists something is and shame white people on the only basis being... well... their skin color.

So despite finding the article well meaning, it comes off as bossy and forceful. Hence why I can't support articles like these.

[Cronaj]

I think it more has to do with non-POC needing to be aware of how their words come off to POC. I don't think it's white shaming, imho.

It has to do with the fact that (especially in the English-speaking world) white people are typically the majority, so if they thoughtlessly write about a POC without considering how said group wants to be depicted, they may be overwriting the POC's voice, which has been marginalized for so long. (This goes into the cultural appropriation topic, which I don't want to get into.)

But basically, as an example, if a white person writes about a Native American person and includes strange language (perhaps with food as a descriptor), it might be a bit insensitive to the identity of that particular cultural group. This might not even be the author's intent, but it can be unintentionally harmful. Especially, if this work of fiction gets famous, when not many works by Native Americans do.

It isn't about white-shaming, it's just a sensitivity thing, and understanding that if you are not a part of an ethnic group, you don't know how your words about that group will be perceived. So do your research, and maybe find some sensitivity readers.

[joannekwan]

These articles are mostly born within the Western market, so mainly Europe, the United States, and Canada, all of which have had history with colonialism and general exploitation of non-white populations across the the globe. It's a complicated thing that people have written entire books about but basically it boils down to: since the past has placed white people in an overall place of privilege in the Western world, contemporary white writers have a bit of work to do to give their creations a second thought and ponder "Is what I'm writing perpetuating something negative about people that have had the short end of the stick in the West time and time again."

Take for example describing a Black character's hair. It's got tight curls. Perhaps a writer might think of a descriptor for it, so they start thinking of analogies and things to compare it to. They might think something similar in texture is sheep's wool. So the writer could say the character has wooly hair.
BUT the trouble with that is the writer is making a comparison between the character and an animal. And there is a long history of dehumanizing Black people and making them seem more animal than human. So let's avoid that!

[DeleteThisAccountFag]

But the article made its point well and sound that I felt it didn't need to point out any particular group. It even convinced me not to do that in the future. I felt it was unnecessary, at all. I mean, are there any articles where I, as an Hispanic, have to have to be pointed out in such a rude way? No, that would be unacceptable and very insensitive. Yet, if I was white, I would have no choice but to acquiesce to such blatant pointing out? Imagine this was not an article but a speech. Imagine if white people were pointed out during said speech with white people in the audience. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if such an example exists in real life, and that thought already makes me cringe.

So, no, I can't accept this, at all. It feels like we're just doing a 180 on the problem.

[DeleteThisAccountFag]

But my problem is when they are specifically pointed out, it comes out so rude and tasteless. I've seen this a couple of times and there's even a freaking MTV YouTube video series called "Dear White People". This does not elate me or make me happy in any way because I see this as backwards thinking. Not all white people are out to get everyone of color, yet when I see this kind of pointing out, I just shake my head and think, "we are not progressing with this kind of talk."

I do agree that the article's message, while it does applies to everyone, white people should definitely take it far more seriously, I get that, but we should be respectful about it rather than just say the equivalent of, "You hear that, whitey?"

[joannekwan]

It's usually pointed at white people mostly because the industry (particularly when it comes to authors who are traditionally published or are seeking to be traditionally published) is dominated by white people. It's not discounting other POC who may be racist, but rather it's just shining a light on the people who have a seat in publishing or are likely to get a seat.