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Pablo.C.S
Dec '18

Do you think an artist reserves the right to not have their creations enjoyed by others?

By this I don't mean something deeply personal, or intimate that the creator has the right to keep private, like a journal, a thinly veiled autobiography, or a comic about their personal lives etc.

Nor am I talking about a work that is still in the process of being created that will be published/commercially released eventually.

I just mean a regular work of art, be it a comic, a script, a novel etc. That the creator(s) have finished, or don't intend to finish and that they've hidden/not shared, for one reason or another.

Is it okay for a creator to hide this work from potential readers and deny them an experience? Just because they might "one day" edit the story or adapt it or do something more with it.

For example a lot of the works by Kafka (some of which are even incomplete) that are now considered all time classics were denied to the community for years, until they were published posthumously. All because he didn't think they were good enough.

As both a creator and an avid gamer, movie goer, reader, I can understand this from both perspectives.

I understand why an artist would want to keep their drafts to themselves, as to maintain a quality standard or to not disappoint fans.

That being said, a lot of who I am now I can directly attribute to works of fiction that influenced me a lot, I can't imagine who I'd be if said works were denied to me by their creators

So basically should all art drafts be public domain?

I'm genuinely curious to know what the community thinks about this question.

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    Dec '18

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HGohwell
Dec '18

I understand the idea, I love seeing works in progress and drafts and unfinished and simply pieces that are finished but were never really meant for publishing but here have it in a special from everything to games to comics to anime to just my friends' unfinished works. Posthumously is different in my eyes.

But, bluntly, no.

It's 100% not ok to expect creators share every piece they've ever done. It's not about keeping up standards or not to disappoint. I think there's a clue in how you've worded it, whether you've meant to or not. It's not about you being denied, which is quite simply a tell of how entitled fan have become these days. It is not yours. It is not the fans. It belongs to me as a creator. It is mine to give, not a fans to expect and demand. It's about my choice as a creator.

The principal of it aside, how could this possibly be enforced? You've have to somehow hack everyone's computer, judge when a piece is finished and make it published? What about paper? If I was forced to put every piece I've ever done in public domain for everyone to see, I would stop creating and leave it in my head.

So yeah, again. No. I have the right to privacy. I have the right to create and keep things private. And fans do not have the right to force creators to share what is theirs because of some sense of entitlement and idea that they're being denied something that isn't even theirs.

DokiDokiTsuna
Dec '18

This question is worded a bit strangely...I hope I understand it right.

If it were me in Kafka's position, or any of the other writers who've had work published posthumously without their express permission, I wouldn't care. I mean, I may not think something I did is good enough to share, but if the public wants to see it so badly that someone goes out of their way to get permission from one of my living relatives to publish it, well go on ahead then. Have a ball.

On the readers side, though: sure, it might seem sad to think about those works not being published, but the reality is that no one would notice. Hindsight is 20/20; you can't judge a potential past by the standards of the present. Long story short, literally no one would know what they were missing.

Like, right now, there are potentially thousands of unpublished works that died with their creators that no one is reading. Do you feel worse off for it? Probably not, because you don't know what they are. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

keii4ii
Dec '18

"Public domain" is probably not the right term here, since it means anyone can do whatever they want with them, including commercial usage, hateful propaganda, etc.

But even when excluding that stuff... yes, it's 100% okay for a creator to keep whatever creations of theirs private, for whatever reasons.

ar-ninetysix
Dec '18

Easy answer. We're not obligated to show everything we make to everyone, you know? It's not like creative people such as ourselves are, by default, forced to show everyone our projects. We don't owe anyone anything, and if people wanna hide stuff.. let 'em. It's their own work and they have full control over it, why should the audience have a say in it being released?

I myself have kept albums worth of music that I've made when it was a personal venture. I've shared said music with friends and other musicians, and their main response was "why aren't you getting this stuff out there? It sounds great!" I intended to make that music for an audience to listen to it and enjoy it.. but it became much more personal as time went on to the point where I felt like, no one's ever going to appreciate this as much as I will. What's the point of sharing it now? I knew and recognized that there was an audience for what I was making but I didn't wanna pursue that as much as I originally thought. After coming here to follow writing as a hobby, I openly share my music, but I don't promote it.

It was never about keeping drafts or keeping a standard I've set up for myself, it was about my own personal growth through that whole journey, and if I wanna share that, then cool. If not, cool. As long as that choice is mine to make, and not anyone else's. I realize it's a bit different from your examples of art and you know.. having an audience xD but yeah, I think my story applies here a fair bit.

You're talking about people missing out on a thing that they know nothing about, should've never expected, and will never see. And that just makes no sense to me as far as arguing whether or not it's good to keep art from them, sorry lol

inkythoughts
Dec '18

I think this is a plain simple no, especially while the creator is still alive. (The important fact with Kafka was that they were published several years after his death, and as you already mentioned, a lot of them weren't even remotely finished - why would Kafka even want to publish them if they weren't even remotely done? People just wanted to read more of him, the only reason why his lawyer decided "let's publish all of these even if Franz actually asked me to destroy them." I personally think that it wouldn't have made much of a difference if he actually had destroyed them because the themes are very similar through out all of his works, Kafka even admitted that himself.) There usually is a reason as to why they decided not to share them, and seriously, a creator doesn't 'owe' it to the public no matter what 'hidden masterpiece' they might have created.
It might be sad because it is a loss for society but it still doesn't justify undermining the author's authority by demanding they reveal all their works.I don't see how 'less personal/intimate' works should be excluded by that?

Pablo.C.S
Dec '18

Also to add to the topic:

It's not meant as a practical question, nor did I really expect to see this or intended to apply this in reality.

I just wrote this as an interesting thought experiment, to understand where an artistic community, such as this one, stands on the philosophical idea of complete distribution of one's creative properties.

Jenny-Toons
Dec '18

I feel this is working under the idea that a creator has hinted to wanting to publicly show work they've kept away and just never do. At least that's how I see it.

In that case, I have mixed feelings. I'll always fall back on people's right to never show things. Though, even i can find it a wee bit annoying if someone hypes up a project, has people believing it will happen, and it never does.

But...as a reader myself, I would find it kinda weird if I'd assume a creator was "hiding" work. I wouldn't have anything to go off that other than baseless assumptions.

qwerty
Dec '18

Thought #1:
Personally, if as a beginner artist I knew that every piece of crap I made was potentially going to be shown to people... I would never have become an artist. And then none of what I have made would have ever been shown to anyone... because I wouldn't have made anything XD

Thought #2:

I don't think the creator has a right, nor do I think the consumer has a right. I prefer to be pragmatic and think that rights don't actually exist (except as an arbitrary and subjective mental construct). But even if I don't have a right... if I don't wanna show it, who's gonna make me? XD And if someone was going to force me to make something public that I didn't want made public... then as mentioned already I wouldn't want to make it in the first place.

Also

Help maybe I'm dumb but I don't know how to distinguish between a practical question/answer and a philosophical one :sweat_smile:

HGohwell
Dec '18
Pablo.C.S

I fear this may have been in respond to my thoughts on how you'd apply this in real life (which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do for a though experiment, I didn't for a moment think you were standing there with a sign saying "demand artists share their work").

So let me come at this from a more philosophical angel and see if that helps and explains my thoughts there.

To demand all creators share there work is inherently linked to privacy and how you would do. You would be demanding private work be shared. Ignore practicalities of how would be enforced, there are questions more nuanced: how do you know which should be shared and not? You want drafts? What about WIPs? Who decides what's personal and private what what the fans are entitled to? Why would once think we're allowed to deny readers personal and private work when that could greatly impact their lives too? You might think my story is something I'm denying the readers, I might think it's a deeply personal venting piece? How do you know what a piece means to me? These are highly subjective things and I think the creator knows what they want published. If someone took one of my pieces, even one that isn't deeply personal, and published it without my consent I'd still feel incredibly angry and upset. As I and a few people have said, if you force someone to do something, they will quickly stop finding fun in it and stop doing it.

Pablo.C.S
Dec '18

Interesting, I completely agree, as an audience we should leave it to the creator to curate what gets or doesn't get published.

Like what A_Toad was saying, if there was complete transparency with creative works, it may do more to hinder art then actually share and improve it.

And as HGohwell was saying with something like art, especially with a story it's impossible to completely detach the creator from it, additionally the obligation to sharing each snippet of art to the community would completely ruin the fun from the creative process and work to it's detriment.

Lastly as Kazsup mentioned with the allegory to the chef, if the creator thinks it's a mistake, then it's the creator's prerogative to do as they wish with their works.

Thanks all who have replied so far and for joining in on this think piece.

SleepingPoppy
Dec '18

This has already been thoroughly answered, so I don't know if I'll add anything new, and I largely agree with everyone else.

Short answer, no. What we create belongs to us and is ours to share or not. Might that mean some people are denied some great work of art that could change their life? Yes! Which is why encouraging young people to reach their potential, fostering creativity, and having alternate channels to traditional publishing are super important. So those gems have their greatest chance of getting out there and connecting.

I'm not for any compulsion for people to share things they didn't feel right about sharing. Our art is part of us. Maybe I made something and realized upon review that the message really doesn't agree with my beliefs. I don't morally or creatively stand behind the work. How horrifying would it be to have that published anyway, and I have to answer for something I made that I don't believe in or support? Because unintended messages can and do happen, and we live in a world where creators can and do get serious flack for minor infractions. I'm willing to go to bat or even admit fault in a piece I put my heart into, but I wouldn't deserve that of something I made then rethought and would not have published. The act of sharing something, the things we share, have meaning.

That said, I AM all for facilitating creativity and encouraging artists to feel safe and confident in sharing their work. Like, encouraging the mind set that it's okay to share something even if you feel its rough or imperfect- whether for feedback, or just for the sake of sharing.

Additionally, I think publishing a creators work after death is really dependent on the artists and the family's wishes. Generally, though, unless there is a compelling reason not to, I think it's good to share. Especially when it comes to creators whose work we highly value and the added insight into both finished and the unpolished can be positive/educational.

Roka
Dec '18
Pablo.C.S

In my perspective, if an artist doesnt want to share a story, its because they are not satisfied with it or its incomplete. If they get this 'halfassed' story arent the readers actually being deprived of a great reading experience?

simplykit
Dec '18

hmm thats up to the artist

but in my opinion

share it!

what have you got to lose?

GesuGesu
Dec '18

For every good piece, there are 10 bad pieces hidden.

I share what I think is good, so no. NO to sharing every little sketch or draft. Some of that shit is spoilers for webcomics or completely an inside joke between myself and a few others. Outsiders would have no understanding of what I drew. I also generally do not share completed commissions as they were paid for privately by the client and they hold all rights to being able to enjoy the complete work I made.

Finally, sometimes I draw little things that would OFFEND the majority of the community, so why would I risk my head for that?