Best way to tell a friend how to fix their art?

hjfsdh2222 2018-10-15 22:03:13 UTC #1

So one of my close friends is thinking about going into art. He’s good but he isn’t as advanced as I am (same age keep in mind).
And I think I’m kinda unintentionally discouraging him (^_^

I say that’s it’s just because he has been drawing the same way all this time. Just copy photos and other art and being way to careful with his sketches. Not going deep into form and anatomy and the thought process that really goes into how those works are made.
Whenever I try to help him or give him tips he kinda just rejects me like “I can’t take instructions.” Or “It’s part of my style.” Even though he always complains about how good I am.

It’s not a big deal or anything. I just want him to stop complaining about how good I am.
It’s hard to do it the right way, ya know?
On one hand I like the attention, on the other it gets kinda annoying.

So what about you guys? Ever had a similar situation?

mintycanoodles 2018-10-15 22:10:53 UTC #2

d o n t. seriously. don't. never give unsolicited art advice. if someone doesn't ask for advice, keep it to yourself. even if you have the best intentions in mind, it's not nice and almost never taken well.

and honestly, if you're not Michaelangelo himself, chances are you aren't going to give The Greatest Advice Of All Time and its not worth potentially upsetting your friend over. let them learn on their own.

joannekwan 2018-10-15 22:14:27 UTC #3

I had something similar with a friend, like when she took instruction from professors and in class critiques when we were in school together I could totally see her growth. But once we graduated I think her art slipped in my opinion.

I'm not going to say anything though since I don't want to be rude or pushy.

I think it's best just to let other people speak for themselves. If your friend IS going into art, let the professors and peers critique them.

jpnakashima 2018-10-15 22:14:56 UTC #4

Well, IF he asks about it, I feel you have to have a real discussion with him about it. If he wants to learn, he'll have to get over himself.

I have a friend (my Maxiboy collaborator, no less!) that, for a while, took critic really bad when he was working at a project with my friends. He would say the same things. ''It's my style''. ''I want to get good at this, there's no reason for me to learn this thing because I don't like this thing''. Stuff like this.
He was honestly in denial. A little afraid too. Afraid of not being good enough. If you open yourself to learn, you open yourself to fail.
That said, I don't know your friend. Ego can factor too. I think it's arrogance to say stuff like ''Can't take instructions'', and it can be a more ego driven or ignorance driven kind of arrogance. Of course, this only applies if he REALLY wants to get into art. If it's a hobby, there's no reason why he shouldn't do it the way he wants to.

Also, I think you should remind him that you are the best you can be, while he should also strive to be the best HE can be.
I get that it can be flattering to enter this humblebrag vibe, but I feel that as artists, we won't be the next anything. We are always going to be ourselves, so we should strive to be the best ourselves we can be.

Jenny-Toons 2018-10-15 22:21:21 UTC #5

Eh, I don't really think you have to tell him anything.

It's kinda like the saying:

"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink it"

It just doesn't sound like your friend can handle feedback at the moment. I don't know him personally, so I can't say why he won't consider it, but I don't think it's really worth trying to give him feedback, especially when he doesn't seem to ask for it.

Even if you do give some solid advice, only he can choose to use it or not.

I say it's better to allow him to realize on his own that improvement comes with being willing to step outta your comfort zone. If he doesn't want to do that, that's on him, and there's really not much you can say or do to convince him unless he himself chooses to be convince.

As annoying as that sounds, we always get people who want to improve in something but don't want to really put in the effort or step outta their comfort zone to do it. It's understandable cuz we all go through that at some point in our lives, but at the end of the day, we still gotta be willing to let that go and move forward.

MK_Wizard 2018-10-15 22:23:10 UTC #6

The best way to approach this is to let him know where he needs improvement, but in an encouraging way. Let him know what he's doing right and that where he's falling short is something fixable. This way, he is a aware, but without having his feelings hurt.

DiegoPalacios 2018-10-15 22:36:24 UTC #7

As a general rule, when giving advice, i make sure to see if the person is willing to listen or if they ask for it.

Is he asking for help?, some people feel umconfortable with unsolicited advice, and if he is not asking for it, he may have a negative disposition because of that.

If he is asking for advice, the best way to encourage him to expand his horizons is to propose it as a suggestion and maybe share how doing these things helped you to improve. (if he tries these things is up to him in the end.)

You can tell him that if he want different results, he shouldn`t do always the same.

If he is unwilling to follow your advice, don`t insist. It will only lead o an annoying situation for both of you.

Envy is usually a bad sign in the path of self improvement. Hope your friend overcome his issues.

punkarsenic 2018-10-15 22:55:02 UTC #8

id say just wait. there will come a time soon when he wakes up and starts taking things seriously. happens to everyone - when it happens depends on the person. what makes it happen will be unique.

other than that, lead by example. draw together, so he can see how you do it. share tutorials you think are useful with no overt hint that he should take notice - just "this is really cool!" or something, not "you should look at this and take notes"

when he complains abt not being as good as you, shut him down "its all a learning process and its all work, i have a long way to go too and if we play our cards right we can both be great artists." smth like that

i havent really been in this situation, but i have had stuck up friends who think they know better make me feel like crap when im earnestly trying to improve. its often hard to take constructive criticism from a peer who thinks theyre better than you, or someone you envy - you just might not be the person to wake him up

crayon_witch 2018-10-15 23:02:33 UTC #9

I would be honest. Tell him his comments make you uncomfortable!

It's great that you want to see him improve, but in the end he's the only one who can help himself. Everyone learns at their own pace, especially with art; I think the best you can do for him right now is be supportive.

seru 2018-10-15 23:04:26 UTC #10

Experience is the best teacher and he'll learn the harsh reality sooner or later. I suggest to let him be and don't meddle with his art. Focus on your own instead.

Hodge 2018-10-15 23:08:57 UTC #11

People often have a hard time detaching their egos from their art, so maybe not instruct him but also don't hand out compliments. I have seen artists with that kind of approach become pro-level, but it's generally by the sheer amount of hours they put in. As for him comparing himself to you and complaining about it, haha he'll either bitch till the end of the days given how many incredible artists there are out there, or he'll learn how to deal with it. If he's just starting out with art, high chance he's gonna get discouraged no matter your influence on him. Most people drop it or just do it for fun (in which case skill doesn't matter as much).

Hmm I do have a friend that tries to kind of take art seriously, but we have a lot of mutual respect so it's generally fine. I do my best to help when she asks for it, but don't get too much into the advanced stuff since it just isn't applicable to her yet and she just doesn't care that much. People say a lot of things, which is why you gotta look at their actions to see what they really care about.

beta1042 2018-10-15 23:10:00 UTC #12

Rather than give advice directly for certain pieces, just use their envy as the excuse to give them the advice.

So everytime they say "Man your art is so good, I wish I could draw like that"
take that moment to insert some tip
"My art is where it is today because I study anatomy"
"I'm this good because I practice gesture"
"Yeah that's because I accept harsh critique and use it to grow"
etc etc

Eventually they'll take the hint.

Rhonder 2018-10-15 23:38:59 UTC #13

This effectively sums up what I was going to write. One thing to avoid is giving advice when it's not asked for, but otherwise you just have to read the room a little. The friend might not explicitly say "Hey will you teach me how to draw ____", but if you find them saying things like "man I wish I could draw ____ like you do" that's the kind of catchphrase that can potentially trigger a teachable moment.

The other thing is tailor the advice given both to their skill level and how serious they are. If they're a beginner start with fundamental tricks like "you can make things out of basic shapes, look!". But for someone more advanced or "into it" you might offer advice more along the lines of "this is how I draw ____, you start with these shapes, throw down guidelines for this and that, and then figure out how the rest of it goes like this".

c0ldw1nter 2018-10-16 00:03:01 UTC #14

Sounds like there's envy and frustration going on. Not so unusual when learning arts. I'd just give some emotional support instead of advice, unless he specifically asks for it.

SleepingPoppy 2018-10-16 00:51:39 UTC #15

Tell him this instead.

I'd suggest something like "I don't really like when you compare us." Which is good if you don't mind compliments but dislike the comparisons- which is a feeling a lot of artists have. It's not really a compliment of the other person's focus is just on how their abilities compare. You could also reply with stuff like, "Well, I've been working/studying very hard. Maybe it's paying off." Which puts forth the idea that it's less about innate talent than hard work, which might be a good message for him.

But yeah, unless you guys are in a place where you can comfortably share criticism and encouragement, don't worry about giving him advice. As others have said, leave that to teachers or save it for when he's more open minded.

There's other soft ways of helping. Like sharing resources and tutorials. Or if he's complaining about something, ask him what he thinks he can do to make it better.

Unfortunately. Though it was more an issue of jealousy and mental health than artistic ability. On the bright side it doesn't sound like your friend is being toxic. Hopefully he'll take art classes and get over some of this stuff just by maturing over time. But remember that his abilities/progress aren't your responsibility.

Good luck

hjfsdh2222 2018-10-16 01:33:31 UTC #16

Damn that’s a good answer right there applauds

hjfsdh2222 2018-10-16 02:39:16 UTC #17

Thanks^^ good answer.
But can I ask you this. I always feel a little dishonest when I say I put in a lot of hard work to get where I am. I did put in a lot of hard work. But I’m not quite sure that’s how I got where I am. It feels like I developed half (or maybe more like a quarter) of my drawing skills in just a month; I just had a big mental break through while I was teaching myself and my art got better suddenly. I just always kinda want to try to give people that big breakthrough. But maybe I’m just weird and I improve in bursts sometimes:/

bsienk90 2018-10-16 02:55:18 UTC #18

Yah, mostly in middle/high school though. I was in a small school (Just note: I'm not trying to bragging it was just how it was back then) I was always the best in my school so, that caused all sorts of problems because people would swoon over my stuff and then show me their work and I'd say something about it because in my kid mind that meant they were asking my advice. NOPE. I got "it's just my style" a lot and people got pretty annoyed with me...needless to say I don't give advice anymore unless someone asks for advice.

So, when they swoon over your work just say thank you and change the subject. If they show you work, just try and compliment something you like about it and ask them questions about how they want to finish it, or what they want to do next..etc....just keep it away from "advice" giving unless they ask. That's what I had to do.

Also, younger the artist the less they are comfortable with crits. It's mainly just age and experience I believe but also the person.

Personally, I don't have time for stubborn people anymore. And commenting on someone's work, even though I know what they can do and how they can improve, if it's falling on deaf ears...it's just a waste of your time and theirs. The only thing I will do is leave the door OPEN. I'll say "Well, if you ever would like any advice let me know." (or however that needs to be phrased depending on the person and situation). So, I make the offer but I keep my crits to myself otherwise. They are gonna have to just figure it out by themselves and do the work because I know I had too. And honestly, I don't mind this because I know stubborn people that say "it's just my style" usually stop doing art because you can't improve thinking you know everything - and as an actual artist you HAVE to be okay taking crits and advice - if you can't handle that you're screwed - I mean this is already a competitive business...I'm not complaining. Might sound harsh but art is still a business in the end.

bsienk90 2018-10-16 03:08:57 UTC #19

This isn't odd, this has happened to my my entire life. Usually I'll go on months of practice and study and stop for months on end and I'll pick up the pencil again and it's like what I taught myself finally was digested in my mind - I think it's just how the brain works - you need down time for your brain to catch up and process everything you're teaching yourself. The fact is YOU DID study and practice - hard work pays off and it shows.

Also @SleepingPoppy has some solid advice there. 5/5

SleepingPoppy 2018-10-16 04:54:23 UTC #20

Well the response was just an example. Obviously you have put in effort, but if that feels braggadocious you could respond lots of ways. You're going to have to find what works and feels natural. My point was more that your response could link the quality of art with the concept of working hard/studying. It's a way of modeling behavior you're hoping he'll learn without actually giving him advice. And in an unreceptive person it's potentially more effective than telling him to work harder directly.

Everybody is different and learns at their own pace! I think it's not uncommon for artist to feel a bit like they suddenly leveled up because things are clicking for them. But you have to respect that everyone has their own process and telling someone else what to do probably want give that person whatever magic you had.

Best I can recommend is to focus on discussing art theory and concepts. Frame it more as "I was reading..." and "I have been trying...!" So it's not about his art, but if he's into it, he might still learn things he can apply. But over all you just have to let him figure it out until he's in a place where he wants to hear it.